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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2725577
03/31/18 10:46 AM
03/31/18 10:46 AM
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MooseMiller Offline
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Hi all, first post but I have been lurking for quite a while smile
Thought this thread was a great place to start as I took delivery of an NV10 2 days ago.

May I ask a question please to those that own one already:
I've noticed an electrical interference like noise through the speakers (or headphones if plugged in) on start up, or whenever the touchscreen is used. It sounds like a slight buzzing and is definitely coming through the speakers.
When you first switch on, it makes these noises while the UI screen boots up. Following this, it will make a noise each and every time you either press, drag etc on the touchscreen.
The rest of the time it is fine so once fired up and any menu selected, there is no adverse effect on playability or anything
Does your NV10 do this? I can't believe this is normal

It is not a big issue, but if it is a defect, I don't want it getting worse over time and at the end of the day, it's an expensive (to me) piece of gear I have invested in

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2725582
03/31/18 11:03 AM
03/31/18 11:03 AM
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Gombessa Offline
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I just turned the volume all the way up on mine and turned it on, with my ear nearly pressed to the front left speaker. Other than an expected persistent minimal white/idle noise from high volume, there is absolutely zero noise during boot up, and no noise during touchscreen operation.

You might try a different power outlet or surge protector? Or remove any other devices that may be sharing the same ground connection as the piano?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2725592
03/31/18 11:23 AM
03/31/18 11:23 AM
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Thanks Gombessa - I will try a different power outlet.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2725626
03/31/18 01:35 PM
03/31/18 01:35 PM
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I just did the same experiment as Gombessa and can confirm the result: Except for a very silent speaker background noise (that I can only hear if my ear is <=20cm from the speaker) I hear nothing.

However, I do remember hearing that phenomenon, but I'm not sure if I ever heard it with my piano at home or only with the one in the shop. If the former, then it must have gone away on it's own, which would be kind of strange. So it probably was at the shop.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2725648
03/31/18 03:17 PM
03/31/18 03:17 PM
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I played around a little more and plugged it in to a different power source as Gombessa suggested but still the same. It didn't occur to me to check the volume though and yes, it varies according to volume control. So if turned up full it is quite loud but with the volume all the way down you cannot hear it at all. I had noticed it immediately from a playing position at around half volume. Also, at playing position it is most noticeable from the bottom speaker. At half volume you would definitely notice it without having to go 20cm close.

But interestingly, assuming half volume, I'm not sure if you would hear it in a shop as the ambient shop noise would probably mask it unless really, really quiet

I'll give the dealer a call on Tuesday after the Easter break as there is also an issue with the right hand pedal where it has no real spring tension and makes a loud acoustic 'clunk' from the piano body when pressed.

Aside from that though, it really is a great DP smile


Originally Posted by JoBert
I just did the same experiment as Gombessa and can confirm the result: Except for a very silent speaker background noise (that I can only hear if my ear is <=20cm from the speaker) I hear nothing.

However, I do remember hearing that phenomenon, but I'm not sure if I ever heard it with my piano at home or only with the one in the shop. If the former, then it must have gone away on it's own, which would be kind of strange. So it probably was at the shop.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2725798
04/01/18 10:36 AM
04/01/18 10:36 AM
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Vancouver, BC
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Quote
I just turned the volume all the way up on mine and turned it on, with my ear nearly pressed to the front left speaker. Other than an expected persistent minimal white/idle noise from high volume, there is absolutely zero noise during boot up, and no noise during touchscreen operation.


It is a little disappointing that Kawai would use an internal amp with a high enough noise level for you to hear white noise through an internal speaker.

On the touchscreen operation noise I definitely recall at least one non-DP situation where I heard this. I suspect some kind of capacitive coupling here: perhaps a low level audio input cable being too close to the touchscreen's 'brain'.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2725802
04/01/18 10:49 AM
04/01/18 10:49 AM
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I've never encountered a speaker that didn't have *some* audible difference between on and off if you strain to measure it. With the NV10 it's entirely inaudible unless you literally have your ear right next to the speaker grille. Not being an audiophile I can't say whether that is exceptional, horrible or something in-between, but it's better than just about any other audio system I've otherwise heard. At anything more than a few cm a away from the center of the cone (including normal playing distance of course) it's literally silent.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2725822
04/01/18 12:15 PM
04/01/18 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I've never encountered a speaker that didn't have *some* audible difference between on and off if you strain to measure it. With the NV10 it's entirely inaudible unless you literally have your ear right next to the speaker grille. Not being an audiophile I can't say whether that is exceptional, horrible or something in-between, but it's better than just about any other audio system I've otherwise heard. At anything more than a few cm a away from the center of the cone (including normal playing distance of course) it's literally silent.


Good to hear that this hiss is for practical purposes inaudible.I confess to coming at this from an audiophile perspective, where today source noise levels are often 120 dB down (sometimes reaching 140 dB down), and good amp noise levels are 100 dB down.

How about the headphone output? Most modern DPs tend to be very good at keeping noise in their headphone amps really, really low...

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: NormB] #2725831
04/01/18 01:20 PM
04/01/18 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NormB
....How about the headphone output? Most modern DPs tend to be very good at keeping noise in their headphone amps really, really low......


Nope - not a squeak with headphones. And you would really have to be only a few cm away from the speakers to hear only the slightest white noise when on full volume. Which makes the issue I have all the more obvious when using the menu

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2725838
04/01/18 01:42 PM
04/01/18 01:42 PM
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The headphones are completely silent for me too, but TBH that is the way it is with any DP, even a $500 PX150 wink


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2726023
04/02/18 11:20 AM
04/02/18 11:20 AM
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He used a pointed instrument (like a compass tip) to gently tug at the felt around the vertical sustain pedal rod. Apparently acoustic pianos do this too.


Piano player as hobby. Baby grand acoustic. Yamaha P255. Kawai Novus NV10.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: MooseMiller] #2726027
04/02/18 11:27 AM
04/02/18 11:27 AM
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turn down the tiny input gain knob right underneath on the rear underside plug panel. mine was turned up to max and gave the same problem. also when scrolling in a certain menu. turned it right down and no more noise. voila.


Piano player as hobby. Baby grand acoustic. Yamaha P255. Kawai Novus NV10.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: UKchap75] #2726109
04/02/18 03:34 PM
04/02/18 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by UKchap75
turn down the tiny input gain knob right underneath on the rear underside plug panel. mine was turned up to max and gave the same problem. also when scrolling in a certain menu. turned it right down and no more noise. voila.


Thank you UKchap75 - that seemed to sort it smile

Now just got to get my damper pedal fixed and I'll be golden smile

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2726110
04/02/18 03:37 PM
04/02/18 03:37 PM
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Do you mean the "Line-in" volume knob?


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: MooseMiller] #2726111
04/02/18 03:41 PM
04/02/18 03:41 PM
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Good call on the line in volume knob, ukchap!

Originally Posted by MooseMiller
I'll give the dealer a call on Tuesday after the Easter break as there is also an issue with the right hand pedal where it has no real spring tension and makes a loud acoustic 'clunk' from the piano body when pressed.


Moose, is this the same issue I chronicled in this thread? http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...wai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2715645

The damper pedal either sagged, or would clunk a bit as it fell off manually raised to the level of the other pedals. And there was zero tension on the chrome pedal rod when at rest.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2726119
04/02/18 04:17 PM
04/02/18 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa

Moose, is this the same issue I chronicled in this thread? http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...wai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2715645

The damper pedal either sagged, or would clunk a bit as it fell off manually raised to the level of the other pedals. And there was zero tension on the chrome pedal rod when at rest.


Similar - but not quite. There is a very slight sag but I doubt if I would have noticed this. And a few mm of play in the pedal. and the rod has a bit of play in it. However, the main symptom for me is that there is virtually no tension in the pedal - it's either on or off - and you could easily depress it with your little finger say. Also, when you depress the pedal, a loud audible 'clunk' is heard from the main DP body.

Interesting thread though, and when I look at JoBert's excellent pictures slightly further down the thread; If I were to hazard a guess, it would be the spring (with red cord - number 4 in the third picture) that is the problem. It would explain the lack of tension, and also the weight of the wooden lever would be enough to return the pedal maybe. Although the clunk noise I'm not sure about.
I'll see what the dealer comes back with - If no engineer is forthcoming I may have a look inside and see

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2726121
04/02/18 04:22 PM
04/02/18 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
Do you mean the "Line-in" volume knob?

Yes - this is the one I just adjusted to make the noise inaudible. Easy way to check is to turn it to max and you should hear the noise that I reported (main volume at half or more)

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2726123
04/02/18 04:30 PM
04/02/18 04:30 PM
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I turned up the main volume to max and the line in volume to max. I could just barely hear, with my ear on the top speaker, a sound almost like a sea shell.


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Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2726124
04/02/18 04:54 PM
04/02/18 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
I turned up the main volume to max and the line in volume to max. I could just barely hear, with my ear on the top speaker, a sound almost like a sea shell.

Hmmm - perhaps it is just amplifying an interference noise then. But I'm OK with this.

Thanks

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2726139
04/02/18 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MooseMiller

Similar - but not quite. There is a very slight sag but I doubt if I would have noticed this. And a few mm of play in the pedal. and the rod has a bit of play in it. However, the main symptom for me is that there is virtually no tension in the pedal - it's either on or off - and you could easily depress it with your little finger say. Also, when you depress the pedal, a loud audible 'clunk' is heard from the main DP body.

Interesting thread though, and when I look at JoBert's excellent pictures slightly further down the thread; If I were to hazard a guess, it would be the spring (with red cord - number 4 in the third picture) that is the problem. It would explain the lack of tension, and also the weight of the wooden lever would be enough to return the pedal maybe. Although the clunk noise I'm not sure about.
I'll see what the dealer comes back with - If no engineer is forthcoming I may have a look inside and see


I think you may have a real issue with your damper. I don't believe spring you're talking about actually provides any significant tension. Most of the weight of the damper pedal is from the fact that it has to lift a 3ft aluminum rail which is itself holding up 5-10lb of damper hinges and weights. The fact that you can depress the pedal the entire way with your pinky means the rail isn't being pushed up. It's possible the wooden peg that actually lifts the damper rail has become dislodged and the damper mechanism isn't actually engaging?

When you depress the damper pedal, can you tell if the key weighting decreases at all? While holding the damper down, when you very lightly press a key down, can you still feel the subtle engagement point of the damper? It's easiest to tell by playing E6 and F6 (since E6 has a damper but F6 doesn't).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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