Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
59 registered members (cathryn999, cfrederi, Alex C, Angelos58, Beemer, 14 invisible), 1,028 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 6 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729517
04/16/18 09:09 PM
04/16/18 09:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,186
Toronto, Ontario
P
Peter K. Mose Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Peter K. Mose  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,186
Toronto, Ontario
Clearly this is something to take up with the store administrator/owner, or in the forum of a faculty meeting. In the meantime, I agree with Morodiene: just give the kid abbreviated lessons that start late and end promptly.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Peter K. Mose] #2729599
04/17/18 10:51 AM
04/17/18 10:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,325
South Florida
G
Gary D. Online content
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,325
South Florida
Originally Posted by Peter K. Mose
Clearly this is something to take up with the store administrator/owner, or in the forum of a faculty meeting. In the meantime, I agree with Morodiene: just give the kid abbreviated lessons that start late and end promptly.

Peter, being late is a habit. and as a person who is always on time, I find it intolerable.

My grandmother was always late, and the whole family joked about it. But what it comes down to is that "MY time is more important than YOUR time", so if one of us has to wait, it's going to be us waiting for the other person. By that, I mean it is a mindset. I think it's also a way of controlling.

My first college teacher was the same way. He was always 5 to 15 minutes later. He was late for the first lesson, and late the rest of the day. Always. I remember having a horrible problem trying to play because I would warm up and arrive exactly on time, then I'd have to wait.

Every lesson.

I suppose how we handle this is part of our personality. Some people put up with it.

I don't.

When my students arrive late, they lose lesson time. On rare occasions, when it is not habitual and there is a good reason, I will go over a bit if there is no student following. But when the next student is on time, that student starts on time, and it's tough luck for the previous, late student.

In the rare situation where I've had to wait for a student, because of another teacher, I simply say: "You have to talk to the other teacher about being late," if we are not in the same building. In the same building I walk to the other class and give the other teacher are very hard time.

This REALLY ticks me off...


Piano Teacher
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Gary D.] #2729615
04/17/18 11:44 AM
04/17/18 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 220
USA
A
Andamento Offline
Full Member
Andamento  Offline
Full Member
A

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 220
USA
The director of our community orchestra while I was in college began rehearsals right at 6:30 pm on the nose. If you weren't in your seat, ready to play your instrument, you could expect (and would unfailingly receive) a firm reprimand in front of the group.

It didn't happen often -- people learned very quickly.

And I'll add that he himself never dismissed us late, either. He held us accountable to start on time, and himself accountable to end on time.

That's respect.

Last edited by Andamento; 04/17/18 11:57 AM.
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729646
04/17/18 01:52 PM
04/17/18 01:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
C
chasingrainbows Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
chasingrainbows  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
I agree, Gary D. and Andamento. My families are very punctual and I am as well. This teacher is much more laid back - comes in late, goes over, keeps next student waiting, until it's escalated to the point where the last student really being kept waiting. I will stand at the teacher's door, pointing to my watch, and this teacher's next student is standing next to me waiting. Teacher just isn't getting it. And is very friendly with staff, so going to manager is pointless.


Piano teacher, BA Music, MTNA member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Andamento] #2729730
04/17/18 08:20 PM
04/17/18 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 986
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
500 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 986
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by Andamento
The director of our community orchestra while I was in college began rehearsals right at 6:30 pm on the nose. If you weren't in your seat, ready to play your instrument, you could expect (and would unfailingly receive) a firm reprimand in front of the group.

It didn't happen often -- people learned very quickly.

And I'll add that he himself never dismissed us late, either. He held us accountable to start on time, and himself accountable to end on time.

That's respect.


+1 That really is RESPECT!

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2730021
04/18/18 08:28 PM
04/18/18 08:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 220
USA
A
Andamento Offline
Full Member
Andamento  Offline
Full Member
A

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 220
USA
Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
I agree, Gary D. and Andamento. My families are very punctual and I am as well. This teacher is much more laid back - comes in late, goes over, keeps next student waiting, until it's escalated to the point where the last student really being kept waiting. I will stand at the teacher's door, pointing to my watch, and this teacher's next student is standing next to me waiting. Teacher just isn't getting it. And is very friendly with staff, so going to manager is pointless.


Not wanting to change the subject, but I find myself wondering if the teacher you describe is originally from a different culture.

There is a blogger I read who has lived most of her life in the US, but is now in the Philippines. She writes that, at least in the area of the country where she is, people's concept of time is far different than Americans'. Conversations go long, without concern for what time it might be, or when someone you're speaking to might have to be somewhere else at a given time. It's a more relationship-based culture than a time-based one; unhurried regarding moving on to the next thing or the next person.

Anyway, our culture, of course, is not like that, but I would imagine that assimilating into a culture whose concept of time is far different than one's own would be quite a challenge for a while.

If the teacher you're referring to is American, CR, she just might fit better into a culture that doesn't live so much by the clock. smile

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2739236
05/24/18 09:36 PM
05/24/18 09:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
New York, NY
K
Kenji13 Offline
Full Member
Kenji13  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
New York, NY
I think it may help if teachers understand they are still kids. I heard that our brain is not fully developed until the age of 20s. Students age 5 - 10 are very different from adults, and it helps them understand lessons better if we understand how they learn. In my case, if I like to teach a concept, I tend to choose a repertoire that the student likes. Even pop melodies could work. If a student wants to play the song, they will listen to you smile


"Men can do all things if they will" ...Kenji...
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2739372
05/25/18 09:46 AM
05/25/18 09:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
C
chasingrainbows Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
chasingrainbows  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
Kenji, I think that is why my retention rate is so good. Most of my students started with me at age 6-7 and are teens now. As soon as they can read a few notes, I put them in books that have songs they are familiar with and like. The majority of each student's assignments are pieces they select, based on the kinds of songs they like that I play for them (Harry Potter, Disney, Katy Perry, etc.). They do technical pieces (short ones) and a lesson book song as well. The students I have difficulty holding interest in lessons are those who have no musical exposure--they never listen to music at home, in the car, or can name movies that they like, for example.


Piano teacher, BA Music, MTNA member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2739843
05/27/18 10:51 AM
05/27/18 10:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
New York, NY
K
Kenji13 Offline
Full Member
Kenji13  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
New York, NY
Hi Chasingrainbows, I totally agree with what you described. I think it is important to include pieces that students like in lessons, in addition to etudes.

I am so glad that you pointed out that it is difficult for students who have no musical exposure in their life to hold interest in lessons. I think environment are so important to keep motivating students. Do you do anything about it? For example, Suzuki method requires parents to listen to its repertoires. Based on my teaching experience, I see good results. My only concert is that each family has their own music preference. And Suzuki repertoire is not for all. Teaching tradition is important, but I feel it is not enough for non-professional musician to keep enjoying music.


"Men can do all things if they will" ...Kenji...
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Kenji13] #2739899
05/27/18 02:46 PM
05/27/18 02:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,973
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,973
Originally Posted by Kenji13

I am so glad that you pointed out that it is difficult for students who have no musical exposure in their life to hold interest in lessons. I think environment are so important to keep motivating students. Do you do anything about it?

I had absolutely no musical exposure (except by accident, e.g. in movies, or overhearing friends' pop songs on their radio-cassette recorders) in my life when I was a piano student in my home country - my parents knew and cared nothing for any sort of music, and I even had to do my practicing in competition with the TV most of the time.

My first teacher supplied me with everything musical - including introducing me to the delights of great piano music by playing it on the piano for me - a new classical piece after every lesson, each one memorable in its own way, but none of which I had the ability to play until several years later. It was my highlight of the week during that time, and I got her to write down the titles and composers of all of them. Eventually, I did learn them for myself.

It wasn't until several years later that I realized how much influence that teacher had on me, because I thought that everything she was able to do - sight-read and sight-sing easily, play by ear, improvise - was completely 'natural' and 'expected' of every competant pianist. And I also realized that my musical tastes were pretty much identical to hers....... grin


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2739906
05/27/18 03:10 PM
05/27/18 03:10 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,753
Florida
dogperson Offline
Silver Subscriber
dogperson  Offline
Silver Subscriber

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,753
Florida
I also had no musical exposure at home, unless you want to count the classical music on Looney tube cartoons, which in retrospect I think must have been a huge influence.

I began by just noodling around on the piano and listening to the sounds. I know I saw sheet music in the piano bench that was never played and I knew I wanted to play it. It was like seeing a book and not knowing how to read.. A mystery to be discovered....And so lessons began

One of my adult teachers, who teaches Dalcroze, does a small exercise as a piano duet. The secondo plays all black note chords. The Primo improvises with black note melodies. I would have found that very motivating as a young child student.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: dogperson] #2739920
05/27/18 04:22 PM
05/27/18 04:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by dogperson

One of my adult teachers, who teaches Dalcroze, does a small exercise as a piano duet. The secondo plays all black note chords. The Primo improvises with black note melodies. I would have found that very motivating as a young child student.


This is what I do and kids love it (adults too). We are all musical beings, it's just something that needs to be awakened and cultivated. It's difficult as a piano teacher, however, to not be able to reach someone like this. There's a part of me that wants to reach everyone and thinks, "If only they'd give it a chance, they'd love it!" But as I have learned over the years, I can't be that person for everyone.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Morodiene] #2739922
05/27/18 04:38 PM
05/27/18 04:38 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,753
Florida
dogperson Offline
Silver Subscriber
dogperson  Offline
Silver Subscriber

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,753
Florida
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by dogperson

One of my adult teachers, who teaches Dalcroze, does a small exercise as a piano duet. The secondo plays all black note chords. The Primo improvises with black note melodies. I would have found that very motivating as a young child student.


This is what I do and kids love it (adults too). We are all musical beings, it's just something that needs to be awakened and cultivated. It's difficult as a piano teacher, however, to not be able to reach someone like this. There's a part of me that wants to reach everyone and thinks, "If only they'd give it a chance, they'd love it!" But as I have learned over the years, I can't be that person for everyone.


No you can’t motivate everyone. I find my piano teacher highly motivating, And most of her young students love learning. But there is one little girl that occasionally takes immediately before me, and I can see from the look on her face how much she hates it. Never mind that she’s learning music from the beauty and the beast, which most little girls would find highly motivating. She wants to be a gymnast and her mother wants her to be a musician. ..... a hard battle to win


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: bennevis] #2739924
05/27/18 04:47 PM
05/27/18 04:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 986
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
500 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 986
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Kenji13

I am so glad that you pointed out that it is difficult for students who have no musical exposure in their life to hold interest in lessons. I think environment are so important to keep motivating students. Do you do anything about it?

I had absolutely no musical exposure (except by accident, e.g. in movies, or overhearing friends' pop songs on their radio-cassette recorders) in my life when I was a piano student in my home country - my parents knew and cared nothing for any sort of music, and I even had to do my practicing in competition with the TV most of the time.

My first teacher supplied me with everything musical - including introducing me to the delights of great piano music by playing it on the piano for me - a new classical piece after every lesson, each one memorable in its own way, but none of which I had the ability to play until several years later. It was my highlight of the week during that time, and I got her to write down the titles and composers of all of them. Eventually, I did learn them for myself.

It wasn't until several years later that I realized how much influence that teacher had on me, because I thought that everything she was able to do - sight-read and sight-sing easily, play by ear, improvise - was completely 'natural' and 'expected' of every competant pianist. And I also realized that my musical tastes were pretty much identical to hers....... grin


What a great story! And obviously a great piano teacher you had!

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: dogperson] #2739940
05/27/18 06:13 PM
05/27/18 06:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by dogperson
No you can’t motivate everyone. I find my piano teacher highly motivating, And most of her young students love learning. But there is one little girl that occasionally takes immediately before me, and I can see from the look on her face how much she hates it. Never mind that she’s learning music from the beauty and the beast, which most little girls would find highly motivating. She wants to be a gymnast and her mother wants her to be a musician. ..... a hard battle to win


So true! I usually have a conversation with the parent discussing this, as sometimes the kid really loves lessons and doesn't want to quit, but maybe has a hard time showing it. If not, then the parent knows that it's not working out, and usually they eventually decide to quit. I try to make it as painless as possible until they arrive at the conclusion that I think they will arrive at. wink


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2739962
05/27/18 08:35 PM
05/27/18 08:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,762
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,762
Orange County, CA
I've taught several kids with zero music exposure. They have no inclination toward music, and they have very little innate musical ability. They are also quite difficult to teach.

On the other extreme, I've also taught students whose ears are so well honed to sound due to frequent exposure to music, they almost rely on their listening skills to compensate for the lack of reading. That can also be difficult to overcome, especially when the reading skills fall far behind their listening skills.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: bennevis] #2740345
05/29/18 08:46 AM
05/29/18 08:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
New York, NY
K
Kenji13 Offline
Full Member
Kenji13  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
New York, NY
Hi Bennevis -

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I agree that showing/demonstrating students what a professional musician can do is very inspiring.

You mentioned that your first teacher had great influence on you. I am wondering how long you took lessons from her. Also, I am wondering if you wish you had taken lessons from other teachers back then.

I am asking this, because I have many students whom I have been teaching for over 7 years and I sometimes feel that I may be narrowing their musical path. In other words, each teacher has his/her own strengths and weaknesses, and I know that other teachers can show them other things that I don't teach, which my students are missing.

When I think about any schools, usually classroom teachers changes every year. Some teachers are good and some are bad. Maybe it is good this way, so that students can learn what is good and what is bad. Also, students learn something useful from bad teachers.


"Men can do all things if they will" ...Kenji...
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Kenji13] #2740360
05/29/18 10:05 AM
05/29/18 10:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,973
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,973
Originally Posted by Kenji13
Hi Bennevis -

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I agree that showing/demonstrating students what a professional musician can do is very inspiring.

You mentioned that your first teacher had great influence on you. I am wondering how long you took lessons from her. Also, I am wondering if you wish you had taken lessons from other teachers back then.

She was just nineteen (nine years older than me) and newly qualified with a teaching diploma from the ABRSM, and I was her first student. My mother hired her because her fees were the lowest of all the teachers in the neighborhood smirk .

She only taught me for just over a year, by which time I obtained my Grade 1 ABRSM. Soon after that, she had a scholarship to study abroad, and left the country - but not before gifting me with a lovely volume of selected piano pieces by Mozart (whom she knew was my favorite composer) - and told me that she hoped I would one day play all the music in that book. Considering that the book included K310, K331, K457 and K475 (in their entirety), that was a tall order for a kid just starting out, and barely able to play the pieces in Denes Agay's Easy Classics to Moderns (the first book she gave me after the beginner primers) which also helped to hook me on to the original piano/keyboard music of the great composers. (I told her that I only wanted to play original piano music by great composers after that, and she happily obliged.) But I did eventually - several years later - play all the pieces in that Mozart volume, and I still use it to this day grin.

I didn't appreciate fully at the time how much she inspired me - a kid with no talent who didn't much care for music and knew nothing about it, and only started lessons because my parents wanted to keep up with the Joneses. By the time she left, I knew the life story of little Wolfie and his travels through Europe, the grumpiness of Luddy (Beethoven) and his deafness, Chopin's exile & Polish nationalism, Schumann & Clara & Brahms, Rachmaninov's life and how it changed from USSR to USA etc - she told me them, when she played their music for me.

In a way, she was almost like an older, wiser sister who never talked down to me - and she did everything along with me, including singing the beats in tune while counting (ABRSM requires aural skills in its exams, and she obviously used that opportunity while teaching me to count beats when playing), playing accompaniments (never letting me run away with my notes or stop-start from mistakes) etc, which helped to minimize my self-consciousness. She also indulged me in the first few lessons by playing (by ear) - at my request - the theme from Love Story (the only "piano music" I knew and liked then) after the lessons. I never forgot how she could just throw in those rippling arpeggios entirely by ear, and vary them on a whim each time she played the music.......

I had another teacher after she left, older and not quite so inspirational (she only ever played me the pieces I was learning, and didn't tell me any stories), but by then, I was already hooked on classical music and the piano. Then another teacher after I went to a boarding school abroad. Every one was good in their own way. My first teacher was by far the youngest and least experienced (i.e. no experience wink ) but also definitely the one I needed most as an unmotivated beginner. So, I consider myself very lucky that she happened to be the one my mother took on (even if for the wrong reasons).

These days, I perform a monthly recital for a small non-musical audience (following the example of that first teacher in my own small way), hopefully to inspire them to enjoy classical music, with some success. Like her, I discovered that hearing good music played live in front of you by a familiar person (or peer) can inspire a love for it in a way that YT videos, recordings etc can't. And I'm playing a lot of the pieces that she once played for me - Bach's Goldberg Aria and Partita No.1, Mozart's K330 & 331, Beethoven's Pathetique, Chopin's Waltzes, Etudes and Polonaises, Brahms's Op.118, Mendelssohn's Lieder ohne Worte, and Grieg's Lyric Pieces, Schumann, Debussy, Rachmaninov etc.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2740362
05/29/18 10:09 AM
05/29/18 10:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
C
chasingrainbows Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
chasingrainbows  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
I was so fortunate to be immersed in music since as far back as I can remember. My grandmother always had Lawrence Welk or Liberace on the TV, my home was filled with music of Barbara Streisand, Sinatra, Judy Garland, Tony Bennett and of course, movies such as the Wizard of Oz, Sound of Music, etc. inspired me to join in choirs, school musicals and eventually, college to become a music major. As a young teen, I often listened to anything from Bowie, Petula Clark to Brahms and Rachmaninoff. My piano teacher only played the new pieces I would learn. I always had an insatiable desire to learn music and still do. It's hard to imagine kids today who can't even think of one song they would like to learn--even a popular song.

I always do duets with my beginners, and with older students, they love to work on more advanced duets with one another. I often play bits of advanced repertoire to keep them coming. smile

But I still struggle with students who are unable to name on song they like. (one of the first questions I ask in a meet and greet and periodically thereafter is , "what kind of music do you like?"


Piano teacher, BA Music, MTNA member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2740374
05/29/18 10:27 AM
05/29/18 10:27 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,753
Florida
dogperson Offline
Silver Subscriber
dogperson  Offline
Silver Subscriber

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,753
Florida
Originally Posted by chasingrainbows


But I still struggle with students who are unable to name on song they like. (one of the first questions I ask in a meet and greet and periodically thereafter is , "what kind of music do you like?"


If they can’t answer the question of what kind of music they like, can’t you just play a big variety of music for them, until they say “I like that “?
There were a large number of common composers to whom I had no exposure as a child. But even just listening to YouTube now as an adult, I can identify what I like even if it was unfamiliar to me before


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2740377
05/29/18 10:32 AM
05/29/18 10:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 743
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 743
Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
But I still struggle with students who are unable to name on song they like. (one of the first questions I ask in a meet and greet and periodically thereafter is , "what kind of music do you like?"

I was raised in a virtually music-less family. Because my parents largely lacked any interest or appreciation for music and consequently we never listen to music, neither classical nor popular, I could not truthfully answer your question at age 10. But because it was asked to me so many times, mostly by other kids, I cultivated an answer for just such occasions, and for me that was the rock group "Styx" because I knew that Styx was the ancient Egyptian mythological river that souls should cross in the afterlife, and I was very keen on anything to do with ancient Egypt. (BTW, this group definitely "dates" me! You can probably guess my age now. LOL laugh ) So when asked what my favorite band was, I would whip out "Styx", whereupon the asker would say, cool, and maybe ask if I also liked XYZ band, and I could mumble some agreement. To this day, I have never heard a single song Styx has ever performed, and frankly, I'd like it to stay that way!

(BTW, you can only imagine the hilarity that ensued when lacking any musical background, I decided it would be "cool" to volunteer as a DJ for my college radio station... I did improve my public speaking through that experience, if little else! laugh )

Today, I am a big opera fan, listen to classical music, and am learning piano these last 104 days. My point here is that humble beginnings in music and music appreciation may be because of the child's environment and family, not because they themselves completely lack any musical interest or aptitude... or perhaps more importantly, would still continue to lack musical interest and/or aptitude if properly exposed to it.

Last edited by Slothrop, Tyrone; 05/29/18 10:37 AM.

across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2740426
05/29/18 01:23 PM
05/29/18 01:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,212
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,212
Canada
On the last (saying what your favourite music is) ..... A while back I happened on a music store (books, a few ukeleles and drums) and went in to browse. I saw they gave music lessons. I have a teacher but was curious about approaches and such. The lady at the counter was one of the piano teachers. I told her that I'd played piano before, but mainly self-taught (true, a few years back) and how does this work. She said that I should bring in my favourite music so they could teach from there. I responded, "If you didn't have to consider student wishes like that, and could teach the things that you personally find the most important as a teacher, what would you teach?" She got animated, and started to talk about loose wrist motion, real reading skills, ability to listen. I responded, "That is what I would want to be taught."

This is as an adult student, not child. One reason I don't want to go by my "favourite music" is growth: I want to learn what I don't know, get well-rounded in genres etc. Also, if music is very familiar, my ear may take over and then I'm not reading. I also want the teacher to choose those pieces that are best suited to what I need to learn. And I have some gigantic holes in terms of music I am familiar with.

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2740458
05/29/18 03:10 PM
05/29/18 03:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,762
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,762
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
But I still struggle with students who are unable to name on song they like. (one of the first questions I ask in a meet and greet and periodically thereafter is , "what kind of music do you like?"

Are you struggling WITH THE FACT that some kids have no intrinsic propensity toward one particular piece of music? Or are you struggling BECAUSE you have such students and they are such lousy learners?

I've got both.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: keystring] #2740544
05/29/18 08:06 PM
05/29/18 08:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
C
chasingrainbows Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
chasingrainbows  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
Originally Posted by keystring
On the last (saying what your favourite music is) ..... A while back I happened on a music store (books, a few ukeleles and drums) and went in to browse. I saw they gave music lessons. I have a teacher but was curious about approaches and such. The lady at the counter was one of the piano teachers. I told her that I'd played piano before, but mainly self-taught (true, a few years back) and how does this work. She said that I should bring in my favourite music so they could teach from there. I responded, "If you didn't have to consider student wishes like that, and could teach the things that you personally find the most important as a teacher, what would you teach?" She got animated, and started to talk about loose wrist motion, real reading skills, ability to listen. I responded, "That is what I would want to be taught."

This is as an adult student, not child. One reason I don't want to go by my "favourite music" is growth: I want to learn what I don't know, get well-rounded in genres etc. Also, if music is very familiar, my ear may take over and then I'm not reading. I also want the teacher to choose those pieces that are best suited to what I need to learn. And I have some gigantic holes in terms of music I am familiar with.


hi keystring, I only supplement with music they are interested in (so i can work my way into giving them sonatas, inventions, etudes, etc.) They also have technique and lesson books. It's merely a way to bond with the student - I remember one child smiling and saying she loved Christmas music. When I told her I had boxes of Christmas music, she was very excited to start lessons.


Piano teacher, BA Music, MTNA member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: AZNpiano] #2740546
05/29/18 08:07 PM
05/29/18 08:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
C
chasingrainbows Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
chasingrainbows  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
But I still struggle with students who are unable to name on song they like. (one of the first questions I ask in a meet and greet and periodically thereafter is , "what kind of music do you like?"

Are you struggling WITH THE FACT that some kids have no intrinsic propensity toward one particular piece of music? Or are you struggling BECAUSE you have such students and they are such lousy learners?

I've got both.


I've got both, as well. But I struggle with students who have no music exposure, interest or imagination.


Piano teacher, BA Music, MTNA member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: bennevis] #2740654
05/30/18 09:06 AM
05/30/18 09:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
New York, NY
K
Kenji13 Offline
Full Member
Kenji13  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
New York, NY
Thank you so much for sharing your story with your first teacher. Wow, you had a wonderful teacher! I tend to care about teaching technique and musicality, but after reading your story, I realized that the story behind music is as important as the music itself.


"Men can do all things if they will" ...Kenji...
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: AZNpiano] #2740679
05/30/18 10:10 AM
05/30/18 10:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
C
chasingrainbows Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
chasingrainbows  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
But I still struggle with students who are unable to name on song they like. (one of the first questions I ask in a meet and greet and periodically thereafter is , "what kind of music do you like?"

Are you struggling WITH THE FACT that some kids have no intrinsic propensity toward one particular piece of music? Or are you struggling BECAUSE you have such students and they are such lousy learners?

I've got both.


AZN, adding to my last post, "But I struggle with students who have no music exposure, interest or imagination", and who don't practice more than once a week.


Piano teacher, BA Music, MTNA member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2740742
05/30/18 01:33 PM
05/30/18 01:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,762
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,762
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
AZN, adding to my last post, "But I struggle with students who have no music exposure, interest or imagination", and who don't practice more than once a week.

Perhaps I should ask you to clarify your usage of the word "struggle."

You are naming several symptoms of students that we ALL have. But what part of your teaching would you define as a "struggle"?

There are things that are clearly out of your control, and there are things that you can TRY to control. At some point I think it's safe to say that we can just give up.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2740765
05/30/18 02:14 PM
05/30/18 02:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
C
chasingrainbows Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
chasingrainbows  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,852
NJ
Hi AZN, I loathe just putting students in lesson, technique, performance books. I find students are less motivated to practice and move significantly slower than students who also have supplemental pieces of the "kinds" of music they like. One student loves minor, fast,energetic pieces and always learns them quickly and well. Another loves Star Wars and plays songs at a Level far above his lesson book level. Beginners learn familiar nursery rhymes quickly, yet plod through 2 short lesson book pieces. Then there are students who just have no familiarity with traditional nursery rhymes, classical, pop, jazz music. They don't like music most of my students love playing. So, I struggle trying to find the "secret" door to open them up to the world of music out there.

As a side note: I find it interesting that most students want to learn Fur Elise b/c it's on demo on their keyboards, and Carol of the bells because they hear in commercials at Christmas. smile


Piano teacher, BA Music, MTNA member
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2740795
05/30/18 03:19 PM
05/30/18 03:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,762
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,762
Orange County, CA
I think one main struggle is to get the kids to a level where they are "good enough" to play the music they like, and make it SOUND LIKE the music they like. Even the most talented students need at least 2 or 3 years of steady lessons to get there.

I used to think the trick is to find music that motivates each student--there is a lot more to it. You have to keep the other skills advance somewhat concurrently. That, to me, is a struggle. It's ever so easy to fall into a trap of teaching just whatever the kids like. Several of my students would practice ONLY their pop music piece, and all the other stuff gets dumped in the trash. For the younger ones I can threaten to take away their favorite song, but since they already memorized it, they don't care if I took the book away. And at home that's ALL they ever practice.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Page 6 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Success through failure: Thank you ABF
by Zilthy. 11/19/18 11:31 PM
Online lessons for advanced student viable?
by rach3master. 11/19/18 10:25 PM
Black Friday iOS Sales
by IosPlayer. 11/19/18 05:25 PM
Standard piano literature progression
by vetrano. 11/19/18 03:44 PM
Kawai CA87 key action noise in comparison
by Carebear. 11/19/18 02:11 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics188,423
Posts2,762,754
Members91,525
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2