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Hi, need some help here.. I’m stuck at lesson 17 for almost 2 months now.
The lesson is devoted entirely to arranging one song with like 6 different techniques. I’m definetely a slow learner and admittedly stopped for a week or so due to discouragement, but trying to master all the various arranging techniques will take me months. I managed to work through two of the techniques (melody in octaves with 3rds and walk up bass, with swing bass and alternated root/fifth)
At this point I was contemplating to move to next lesson, going back to this one from time to time or in parallel.
What do you think ? Should I keep going with the same lesson until I can play all the different arrangments or move forward ?
Hi, need some help here.. I’m stuck at lesson 17 for almost 2 months now.
I can completely empathize with you. It's definitely the hardest song (Sweet Rosie O'Grady) covered in the course up until that point. It was a source of frustration for me too.
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The lesson is devoted entirely to arranging one song with like 6 different techniques. I’m definetely a slow learner and admittedly stopped for a week or so due to discouragement, but trying to master all the various arranging techniques will take me months.
You are not going to "master" all the techniques. I don't believe that is what Duane expects. For example, I still cannot do the multiple octave runs like he does. If you go back to page 7 in this thread and watch my video of this song, you'll see that I cheat on the runs by slowing them down.
It's shortly after this lesson (maybe 18 or 19) where Duane in the introduction explains to us that he doesn't expect us to do everything as good as he does. Otherwise we'd be as good as him. Some of these techniques will take years to refine. He's showing us what is possible to do with a song. It would have been nice if he put that caveat in at the beginning of lesson 17.
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What do you think ? Should I keep going with the same lesson until I can play all the different arrangments or move forward ?
I think this is the main philosophical conundrum that has emerged in this thread. This is my only criticism of the course so far. Duane doesn't always tell us what he expects us to learn before moving on. Of course we have to learn how to play the song as written, but as far as arranging goes, it's really up to us and our own personal determination on far we go with the arrangement techniques taught.
It's not really going to hurt anything if you decide to stay 6 months on one song before moving on, but I don't think that is what Duane intended for us to do. It's not a 10 year course. It's a 3 year course (according to Duane's office staff) condensed into 1 year. I'm fully expecting to take 3 years with it.
You have to discern what techniques are too far beyond your level (for me it's the multiple octave runs in that song) and do the best with the song given your current level. At least try to become familiar and understand all the techniques because you will have ample opportunity to practice them throughout this course with all the songs that we cover. Lesson 17 is a hump. It gets easier as we progress.
I'm currently on lesson 24, but still working on songs from lesson 23 because it includes techniques from the past and a few new ones. Hang in there. You can do it too. It will be worth the work. I really believe that.
God Bless, David
P.S. I've added my video of this song (it's also on page 7 of this thread). As you can see I don't do everything exactly the way Duane does. I do the best I can with it.
Hey David, before posting I actually went and watched your video...I think you do play that song arrangements quite well. Thanks for the encouragement and all your comments. Especially thanks for the info on the course potential length - 3 years seems more reasonable than a year ! Yes the multiple active runs are quite challenging and will need dedicated technical development, before using in a song context. I think I will start with the next lesson and go back to this one for a while, I feel less bad/guilty now I guess one advantage of going with self-learning is that you can go back, revise, stay on a lesson or technique as much you want.
I think I will start with the next lesson and go back to this one for a while, I feel less bad/guilty now I guess one advantage of going with self-learning is that you can go back, revise, stay on a lesson or technique as much you want.
stoppa
Amen!
I'll be 45 years old in a few months and I really wish I didn't have to spend so much time working on basic stuff. But that's the reality for adult beginners. It's a challenge to our character. We have to be patient, learn to enjoy the journey, and believe that this tedious work will eventually enable us to achieve a level of playing where we have freedom of expression and can just play without having to concentrate so much on hitting the right notes. I believe Duane's course is a great foundational course for a beginner. Hang in there and I will too. I know we can do it.
Ah! 53 here.....not a minute pass that I regret the time I spent on reading comics and watching 90125 instead of nailing down those scales and arpeggios during my free time!
Ah! 53 here.....not a minute pass that I regret the time I spent on reading comics and watching 90125 instead of nailing down those scales and arpeggios during my free time!
Man, I hear ya.
For me it was wasting so many years shooting guns. The amount of time and money I spent in that hobby is depressing.
Here is a beautiful song from lesson 23 (I'm currently on lesson 25) entitled "All Through The Night." I would put this song into the hymn category and I'm really glad these songs are sprinkled throughout the lessons. I'll play it once as written in the book and then arranged. It's mostly Duane's arrangement with my own flavor and dynamics added to it. The piano is Pianoteq 6 Grotrian Prelude. I think it sounds good for this song.
Another beautiful piece, David - WOW! The dynamic variations really deliver an emotional impact. Thanks, once again, for sharing.
Thank you. That's one of the reasons why I liked this song.
Currently in lesson 25 we're covering two songs that I really don't care for (Man On The Flying Trapeze and Jingle Bells), and I'm finding Duane's arrangements challenging with the syncopated rhythmic patterns, chord substitutions and counter melodies. It's important to go through the process and learn what he is teaching, but I'm not really inspired enough to record them.
There is a lot of songs in this course like I mentioned above. Although, while I don't enjoy the songs very much, they are good for practicing and developing what Duane is teaching. Learning the songs means learning the skills being taught. Hopefully all this - not so fun - work in the 52 week course will make the Praise and Gospel series that I bought from Duane easier when I eventually get to it.
I finally finished lesson 25. There were only two songs in this lesson, but they were both arranged with a similar syncopated rhythmic style, which I found to be a bit challenging to learn. It can be a temptation to move quickly through the songs in this course that I don’t find particularly enjoyable, but I knew my brain and body needed to be “wired†with the coordination to play these two songs. I did have a little fun with Jingle Bells. Duane adds some “playfulness†to it.
I normally only post the songs that I really like, but I’ll post both songs from this lesson since it took longer than I would have preferred to learn them. I’m happy to be moving on.
As usual I’ll play them as written and then arranged by Duane with the techniques he taught for this lesson.
The first one is Jingle Bells. The Second one is Man On The Flying Trapeze. The sound for both songs is the Kawai EX Concert Grand.
Thank you for posting your progress David. It is encouraging to see what is possible. I got hung up on lesson 2 and decided to take private lessons which have helped a lot. I started tackling lesson 3 a few days ago. It probably takes me closer to a month to get through each weekly lesson, although I am waiting until i can do as good as I think I can do in these early stages. I appreciate you sharing.
Mercy, David - you ought to be really proud of this jazzy version of Jingle Bells . . . and you don't even like the song!
PLUS . . . I'd say it's about time Duane started sending you checks (let's call 'em "performance royalties"!) for creating and posting these videos. I can't think of a better advertisement for the course!!
...It probably takes me closer to a month to get through each weekly lesson, although I am waiting until i can do as good as I think I can do in these early stages.
It took me a month to get though lesson 25. Hang in there. At first I really wanted to get through this course as fast as possible so I could move on to Duane's Praise and Gospel series that I already bought, but then I realized that taking my time (like you're doing) is an important part of the journey. There are no shortcuts. We just have to put the time in. I think most people can do it if they work hard. I wish you the very best in your musical journey. Thanks for the feedback.
Originally Posted by pwl
Mercy, David - you ought to be really proud of this jazzy version of Jingle Bells . . . and you don't even like the song!
PLUS . . . I'd say it's about time Duane started sending you checks (let's call 'em "performance royalties"!) for creating and posting these videos. I can't think of a better advertisement for the course!!
LOL
I've been emailing Duane with the links to my youtube uploads and most of the time he responds back with some sort of affirmation. He even answered a question I had once. I'm surprised there isn't more on youtube regarding this course. I would have never known about the course if it wasn't for this forum. I'm really grateful to have this material.
Ok ..... David ..... your rendition of Jingle Bells has done it !!!
I purchased the course !!! LOL…
Wonderful!
I’m glad you’re getting involved with the course. I’ve always appreciated your thoughtful comments and suggestions in this thread and your contributions on other subjects in pianoworld.
Personally, I’ve never needed help with motivation when I find something I’m interested in (like piano), but it’s always helpful when there are other people to share the experience with.
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I think this course AND my dedication to doing it right will help improve those skills.
I think you’re right. I didn’t have any skills coming into this course. So as an adult beginner I’m learning almost from scratch. It takes me a lot of effort just to learn the songs as written since I didn’t really know how to read music either.
Also, Duane’s lessons have beginner and more advanced material in them, therefore, there are things he teaches that I just cannot do given my level of playing. I believe a lot more could be obtained from this course by more advanced students who already have a better understanding of musical theory and the chops to do some of the things Duane teaches.
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Your postings have served to motivate me, and probably others.
Thank you
Don
Wonderful!
I feel very blessed to have this material and I know it requires a lot of hard work (for a beginner) to get through, but I’m confident it’s going to help me achieve my musical goals. If it wasn’t for this forum I might never have known about the Duane Shinn course. It’s a privilege to share my experience with it here. I’m looking forward to hearing your input as well once you start the course.
Duane’s lessons have beginner and more advanced material in them, therefore, there are things he teaches that I just cannot do given my level of playing. I believe a lot more could be obtained from this course by more advanced students who already have a better understanding of musical theory and the chops to do some of the things Duane teaches.
Well, I would not call myself "more advanced". However, I do KNOW a lot about playing piano in the jazz genre where I have been focusing for a while now.
I have always described myself (to prospective teachers) as someone who knows a lot but cannot DO a lot.
I have tended to gloss over things that are very difficult and just get the general gist and then moving on .... telling myself that I could do that ..."If I wanted to"... LOL ....
That catches up with you eventually and you find you (me) know a lot but cannot do a lot.
So ... my focus as I work through this course will be doing my best to come away DOING instead of just knowing.
But right now ... this is just talk.
I will know more about this in 6 months. LOL ...
Thank you again for your inspiration.
Don
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