2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
34 registered members (Charades, Charles Cohen, ChatNoir, David B, Animisha, DrPaul09, baudelairepianist, 11 invisible), 276 guests, and 468 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) #2723074 03/20/18 11:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
P
piano_seeker Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
Hi everyone, I've been looking at uprights (and have a previous thread on that), but after inevitably trying out a couple of baby grands in the stores, I'm starting to wonder if I ought to move in that direction.

Our living space is modest (city apartment), but we could probably fit a 5'1" if we move a couple of pieces of furniture to another room. We couldn't get it up the stairs, so it would have to be craned in - have yet to determine if this will work.

But, on a recent showroom visit, I was drawn to the S&S concert grand I happened to sit at, and then decided to try the Model S, since it was the smallest grand. The change in the dynamic range was immediately noticeable, and it felt more responsive, more connected to my body. (I'm comparing the Model S to two K-52s and a 1098 in the same store, none of which really impressed me). The evenness of tone was also something else. Was quite smitten by it.

Would be grateful for help with the following questions:
1. I searched for previous threads on the model S, and the posts date from 2010 and 2013. It looked like people had some pretty strong feelings about the Model S. Am wondering if anything's changed in 5 years. I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts on/experiences with this piano please. Apart from helping me evaluate this one, it would also help me have some context and background for other grands I audition.

2. What other small grands should I not miss checking out (in a similar price range)?

3. I'm concerned about a couple of environmental factors: (i) there's no door or wall separating the kitchen, although it's around the corner from where the piano would go, about 15 feet away, but fumes do reach the living area; and (ii) we're on the top floor with no air conditioning and it can get extremely hot up here in the summer. Are these conditions manageable? E.g. with a cover for the instrument and installing a portable air-con unit.

4. Finally, given that I've only just started researching higher end pianos (Larry Fine's book arrived today), and I'm not intimately familiar with the ins and outs of soundboards, pinblocks, and action mechanisms, should I be going for a grand already? I've played piano since I was a child, and have acquired lots of guitars as an adult, so I'm not a total newbie to woods, sound production and tone, but am still learning.

Many thanks in advance for your help.

Last edited by piano_seeker; 03/20/18 11:38 PM.
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723076 03/20/18 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 287
agraffe Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 287
Hi piano_seeker,

Check out the following thread: "Steinway Model S New" #2646371, begun on Tue May 23 2017 10:00 AM. The author writes to combat an anti-Steinway and anti-Steinway-Model-S bias on PW, admitting how much s/he loves his/her new New York S&S Model S, despite what everybody says. It was apparently the perfect piano for this person. (Incidentally, I think the OP of that thread left PW soon thereafter, due to an overrepresentation of dilettantes on the forum. It is regrettable, but these things happen.) Best of luck in your search.


"When life gives you a lemonwood Gaveau [piano], make a place for it (or, what is the same thing, find a wealthy foreign collector/enthusiast to sell it to)." --adapted from and inspired by _The Piano Shop on the Left Bank_ by Thad Carhart
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723078 03/21/18 12:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
M
Markarian Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
I'm a die-hard Steinway fanboy and would get a model S ONLY if the space absolutely called for it. I love the Model S for its size, but I feel like there's few situations where the S would fit where a slightly larger (and more capable and cheaper) grand would fit. Like, if I was Jeff-bezos-in-Monte-Carlo rich and had a yacht where I could only fit something that small I'd love to have an S, etc.

But yeah, people love to take a dump on the S, usually do to its relatively high price point but all things being equal it's a darn fine little piano.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: Markarian] #2723080 03/21/18 12:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
P
piano_seeker Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by agraffe
Check out the following thread: "Steinway Model S New" #2646371, begun on Tue May 23 2017 10:00 AM. The author writes to combat an anti-Steinway and anti-Steinway-Model-S bias on PW, admitting how much s/he loves his/her new New York S&S Model S, despite what everybody says. It was apparently the perfect piano for this person. (Incidentally, I think the OP of that thread left PW soon thereafter, due to an overrepresentation of dilettantes on the forum. It is regrettable, but these things happen.) Best of luck in your search.


Thank you. I had missed that thread!

Originally Posted by Markarian
I love the Model S for its size, but I feel like there's few situations where the S would fit where a slightly larger (and more capable and cheaper) grand would fit.


I'll definitely have to look into getting my yacht in the Med kitted out with a grand in the future!

What might these other more capable and cheaper grands be?

Last edited by piano_seeker; 03/21/18 12:45 AM.
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: agraffe] #2723081 03/21/18 12:51 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,711
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,711
Delete post

Last edited by Carey; 03/21/18 01:58 AM.

Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723082 03/21/18 12:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
M
Markarian Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
Can you not squeeze six more inches for a Model M? The selection and inventory of this piano is far above what you will find with the S, new or used. And as far as price, I should ask to clarify if you're looking at new grands obviously the price will favor the S, but on the secondary market the S often commands a bit of a relative premium because of its rarity.

If your room is in ANY way connected to the kitchen you must be very conscientious about using the fume hood, trust me on this >.>

We have strict rules in our house, let's just put it this way.

As far as your climate, it wouldn't hurt to invest in a Dampp-Chaser humidity control system that keeps the piano protected from violent swings in humidity, which are going to most effect the tonewoods of the instrument.

I will say that UNDER the 5'7" mark I've never heard anything quite like an S except a restored Chickering I believe (?) that I played at Ed McMorrow's atelier north of me a few years back. If I had been pinched for space I would have called the movers that day.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723083 03/21/18 12:55 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 645
P
pwl Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 645
We shouldn't forget individual differences within a model line - this MAY have been a particularly nice S. At the very least, it obviously spoke to the OP in a way the S&S verticals did not. It will be interesting to come back and play this S again after sitting down at some alternatives that folks will likely mention.

Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723084 03/21/18 01:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
M
Markarian Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
The new price of an S will net you a modestly-used Model B or an older but decent Model D. That will buy you two Hailun 218s and a used boxtruck to haul them in. As said, it doesn't seem like much instrument for so much money. But hey, it's your money.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: Markarian] #2723085 03/21/18 01:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
P
piano_seeker Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by Markarian
Can you not squeeze six more inches for a Model M?


I asked for a template, so I might check that out. A couple of concerns are: if I ever move back to Europe, having a smaller piano just might make it a little easier; and I have to work out what will fit through the door (of my current apartment).

Originally Posted by Markarian
And as far as price, I should ask to clarify if you're looking at new grands


Yes, I'm currently looking at new ones. I'm not entirely comfortable with going for a used one, with all the due diligence and potential adjustment/work that would involve. I'd be out of my depth too.

Originally Posted by Markarian
As far as your climate, it wouldn't hurt to invest in a Dampp-Chaser humidity control system that keeps the piano protected from violent swings in humidity, which are going to most effect the tonewoods of the instrument.


Sounds like a plan. So temperature differences are not too worrying?

Originally Posted by pwl
It will be interesting to come back and play this S again after sitting down at some alternatives that folks will likely mention.


Yes! I've just been reading about Sauter verticals (since verticals was where this started), and I'm keen to compare the experiences.

Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723087 03/21/18 02:04 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,711
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,711
[
Originally Posted by Markarian
And as far as price, I should ask to clarify if you're looking at new grands
Originally Posted by piano-seeker
Yes, I'm currently looking at new ones. I'm not entirely comfortable with going for a used one, with all the due diligence and potential adjustment/work that would involve. I'd be out of my depth too.
New pianos can also require a certain amount of due diligence and potential adjustments/work before they settle in.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723088 03/21/18 02:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,743
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
4000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,743
Until I got to the post where you said you want new, I was going to suggest a Baldwin M. One inch longer, and most folks seem to think its a better piano. You could get two or three of them for the price of a used S, or just buy one and use the savings to install central HVAC and dehumidifier! wink

Unfortunately, the Baldwin M is no longer in production.



And still I dream she'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723098 03/21/18 03:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 184
S
sroreilly Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by piano_seeker


2. What other small grands should I not miss checking out (in a similar price range)?


I cant think of a make that wouldn't be within your budget. I'm not sure how many top brands make a piano quite that small, but I think you should check out all the usual ultra expensive brands (Bosendorfer, Fazioli, C. Bechstein, Steingraeber, the list goes on) and just ask for the smallest grand they make. If you like the Steinway sound, maybe the closest to that sound (The NY Steinway sound) would be a Mason & Hamlin. Estonia gets compared a lot to Steinways(I think it's usually more about quality as opposed to the signature sounds of the respective brands though) and they make a 168 model that is really nice. Shigeru Kawaii, August Forster, Bluthner.... so many to play really, and I know I've missed some.

Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723104 03/21/18 03:28 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,734
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,734

The main objection to a Steinway S is usually the very high price for such a short grand. All grands that size have limitations in the tone quality, especially in the bass. For the 70K price, you can buy(sometimes for much less money) any of the best verticals in the world(Steingraeber, Bechstein, Sauter, Bluthner, Bosendorfer, etc.) or have a choice of many much longer very high quality grands from other makers that do not have the tonal limitations inherent in any very short grand.

So I think you need to decide if you can fit a longer piano(ask for the templates for the models M, O, and A) and consider other makers before you decide. If you decide you love the Steinway sound the best, I would try to get the model M.

I think the the only justification for buying such a small grand at such a high price is if you love the basic Steinway sound much more than other pianos(which you don't know at all since you haven't tried any other grands) and cannot fit a larger piano.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 03/21/18 03:49 AM.
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: agraffe] #2723123 03/21/18 06:16 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,397
Beemer Offline
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by agraffe
Hi piano_seeker,

Check out the following thread: "Steinway Model S New" #2646371, begun on Tue May 23 2017 10:00 AM. The author writes to combat an anti-Steinway and anti-Steinway-Model-S bias on PW, admitting how much s/he loves his/her new New York S&S Model S, despite what everybody says. It was apparently the perfect piano for this person. (Incidentally, I think the OP of that thread left PW soon thereafter, due to an overrepresentation of dilettantes on the forum. It is regrettable, but these things happen.) Best of luck in your search.

I cannot find that thread. Can you post a link?

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: agraffe] #2723126 03/21/18 06:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,934
R
Roy123 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,934
Originally Posted by agraffe
Hi piano_seeker,

Check out the following thread: "Steinway Model S New" #2646371, begun on Tue May 23 2017 10:00 AM. The author writes to combat an anti-Steinway and anti-Steinway-Model-S bias on PW, admitting how much s/he loves his/her new New York S&S Model S, despite what everybody says. It was apparently the perfect piano for this person. (Incidentally, I think the OP of that thread left PW soon thereafter, due to an overrepresentation of dilettantes on the forum. It is regrettable, but these things happen.) Best of luck in your search.


I must confess that I find your post rather nasty and highly tendentious. I have played a few model S pianos, and for their size, they're quite good. However, for their price, they're quite bad. I guess it boils down to the buyer's particular desires and needs--is size THE consideration or not. If not, for less cost than an S one can buy a longer, much better sounding grand, IMO. Even if size is the top consideration, I think one might consider buying a cheaper grand, with the hope of using the money saved to get a nicer grand when space isn't so tight.

As to your comment about an over representation of dilettantes, I think it would have been much fairer to say that there are many amateurs on piano world. The piano forum is designed for people to discuss pianos, to ask questions, and to share their knowledge. It is not designed only for people who work in the piano industry.

I also question your statement about an anti-Steinway bias on Pianoworld. If anything, I find a pro-Steinway bias, and anyone who deigns to criticize them is often tagged as a Steinway hater. Aren't we all allowed to have our own preferences about piano tone and action? Some people will love the Steinway sound, and some will prefer other pianos. I think it's hard to deny that over the years Steinway has had, shall we way, regrettable quality control, and the many problematic pianos that came out of the Steinway factory have colored people's perception of the brand.

Last edited by Roy123; 03/21/18 06:50 AM.
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: Beemer] #2723164 03/21/18 09:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,907
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Beemer

I cannot find that thread. Can you post a link?

Ian


http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2646794/1.html


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: Plowboy] #2723167 03/21/18 10:08 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,397
Beemer Offline
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,397
Gary,

Thanks for the link. I'm obviously missing the technique to find a specific post. I tried using the forum search for the number and for Steinway Model S New but nothing was found. How did you find it?

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723170 03/21/18 10:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 777
L
Lakeviewsteve Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 777
I can help with question 2. Bösendorfer model 155. This info is from their website:

Our Grand Piano 155 has been designed to surprise at 5’1” by mechanical refinement in action, responsiveness of touch and repetition, with key characteristics of bigger Grands such as the 170. Designed in 2012, this Grand Piano soon found many followers who did not like to compromise artistic expression and freedom of articulation in an urban setting. The smallest of all Bösendorfer resonance cases already proves its ability to enchant the audience with an extraordinary spectrum of colours – keeping in mind the actual size of the instrument. Richness in colour, projection of enchanting nuances, repetition speed and responsiveness of touch are key qualities of a Bösendorfer Grand. This is why we have applied the same key characteristics we designed for the bigger Bösendorfer Grand 170.

When I moved from Germany to Brussels a crane had to be used in Brussels and it turned out just fine. It sure made me nervous though.

Best of luck to you / Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 03/21/18 10:21 AM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: Beemer] #2723180 03/21/18 11:08 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,711
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,711
Originally Posted by Beemer
Gary,

Thanks for the link. I'm obviously missing the technique to find a specific post. I tried using the forum search for the number and for Steinway Model S New but nothing was found. How did you find it?

Ian
Beemer - I found the thread last night by simply googling Steinway Model S New Piano World Forums

I always have better luck googling these threads on the internet than using the PW search function smile


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Steinway Model S (and other baby grands?) [Re: piano_seeker] #2723184 03/21/18 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 136
P
P3T3R Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 136
I'm biased towards Baldwins (not the current ones), generally preferring them to the comparably sized Steinway. I like the simplicity of tone of the Baldwins over what I feel is overly textured sound of Steinway. I also find the actions on Baldwins easier to control and have less trouble with notes not speaking when playing quietly. This is totally my opinion, and since you are averse to buying used anyway (the only real option with Baldwin - the new ones that Gibson is selling are Chinese made and have no relationship to the earlier Baldwins) and also prefer Steinway's sound, there is nothing wrong with spending your money on the S. It is your money after all.

But you came here looking for opinions. My opinion is that it would be in your best interest to play some other makes is this size range, both new and used. Who knows, you may find something that you like as much for less money, or even find something you like better.


Peter
1949 Baldwin M
currently working on Brahms op. 10 Ballades, f-minor sonata and 2nd concerto
Mendelssohn Songs Without Words and E minor Prelude and Fugue
whatever strikes my fancy today.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
About Yamaha cx
by Fer15 - 02/24/20 11:48 PM
grades of pieces
by Kaori Miyamoto - 02/24/20 05:40 PM
Roland FP10 vs Yamaha125 or alternative?
by Ilin - 02/24/20 03:06 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,172
Posts2,929,656
Members96,104
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3