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Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #1361517
01/30/10 10:57 AM
01/30/10 10:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
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Both the Hallet, Davis 6'1" and Perzina 6'1" grands are good values at the $10K mark. I've tuned and maintained many of them. The Perzina has a warmer sound, and is available with beautiful veneer accents on the fallboard and inner lid and rim. The Hallet, Davis has more emphasis on the fundamental.

Once you've had the bass of a 6' piano under your fingers, it's harder to go back to a shorter piano...

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
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Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1361518
01/30/10 10:58 AM
01/30/10 10:58 AM
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St Paul, MN
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Markham Offline
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Personally, I wouldn't buy any so-called "baby grand" - I think it's a poor quality/dollar ratio. If you have not yet checked out Larry Fine's "Piano Book", you may want to do that. If you're reasonably close to the Twin Cities (you indicated you're in MN), you may want to check out Ackermans Piano in Burnsville. They have some nice instruments and their own rebuilding and refurbishing shop so they can give you a technician's view of any used instrument you might be interested in. If you're into such things, they'll usually give you a little tour of their shop.

In the late summer the University of MN Dept of Music usually sells some of their pianos. Schmidt Music runs the sale but the U's pianos are usually well taken care of, if also well used. Take a tech with you.

BTW, my piano (Yamaha C7) was bought from the local Yamaha dealer (neither of the above dealers) when they were selling two C7s in their lend/lease program (one benefit being it was tuned virtually every time it went out), one of which (mine, thankfully) was clearly better than the other. The lesson being not all pianos (even the same model and vintage) are created equal. If you can be patient, let a few dealers know what you're looking for. Jim Laabs Piano can find almost anything for you but I'd make sure you had an independent tech examine anything from them, they tend to dabble in the so-called "grey market".

Last edited by Markham; 01/30/10 11:02 AM.
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #1361526
01/30/10 11:09 AM
01/30/10 11:09 AM
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Chicago
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Michael Darnton Offline
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Originally Posted by strokeoluck
The Hallet, Davis dealer continues to tell me that his 6' baby grand is the best option and will produce the best sound. Initially I was concerned about the likelihood of even selling a 6' piano down the road due to buyer room size constraints, but the face the Kawai 5' 10" seller is receiving a number of calls is certainly positive.


You bring up an interesting issue: resale. I think you need to decide whether resale is as important as function.

I would buy as large and good a piano as I could afford. If you keep it for 15 years, you're going to get only a fraction of what you paid for it, no matter what it is, and put the slight difference in depreciation against 15 years of playing pleasure, I don't see how resale is all that important. I run into this all of the time with violin sales: people who skewer themselves in the short run based on some uncertain, relatively small-money scenario in the far-distant future.

Looking at the potential loss of a few thousand dollars down the road seems small-picture to me. What if your daughter keeps the piano the rest of her life (which is what my mother--in-law has done with her 1934 Knabe that her mother bought new for her), at which point resale is irrelevant? Wouldn't you rather do exactly the right thing, now, so that resale never becomes an issue?

Me, I would take a serious look, with a piano tech, at the used Kawai. If you want investments, first, put your money in stocks, not pianos, and for sure, never buy another car, because that's the biggest loss you'll ever take on anything, over and over.

Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: Michael Darnton] #1361533
01/30/10 11:20 AM
01/30/10 11:20 AM
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Georgia, USA
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Since we're mentioning folks in the mpls/st paul area, I know Kieran Wells (Wells Pianos) posts here sometimes and probably stocks some different choices in your price range.

I also had a nice time at Ackerman's and Jim Laabs, but haven't been to the other twin cities dealers yet.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #1361534
01/30/10 11:27 AM
01/30/10 11:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 472
Texas
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Originally Posted by strokeoluck
Thanks everyone. People keep telling me that we should be able to find some good brand name used options out there, but it's just not happening. When I search for Kawai or Yamaha (baby) grand's I come up with a total of four listings - none of which are appropriate to our need/size/budget. The closest I found recently was a 20 year old 5' 10" Kawai for $6800. (The gentleman says he has had a number of callers and will sell it soon). I know a piano can last a long, long time, but I think I'd prefer something a little newer (or brand new) than this one.

...
The Kawai dealer isn't budging on his $8,995 price on the 5' piano.



I don't think you should entirely give up on the 5'10" Kawai. The price seems okay to me, and the piano should have 15 years of very good play left in it, perhaps 25 years. Your little budding pianist will be long gone from home by then, and she would have had the chance to learn on a 5'10" as opposed to a 5'0", and not on an "off brand" -- worlds of difference IMO.

I'm prejudiced, of course. I have a 25-year-old 5'10" that's still going strong, and at 70 I know it will outlive me before a thing needs to be done to it.


Anne
B�sendorfer 225
Technics PCM Digital Ensemble PR307
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: Michael Darnton] #1361537
01/30/10 11:32 AM
01/30/10 11:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
S
strokeoluck Offline OP
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Thanks Michael. I'm definitely not looking at the piano as an investment per se; however, I would like to limit my losses on the back end.

The idea that my daugher is likely to keep the piano for life beyond our home is extremely remote (true, anything is possible, but I'm going to put this in the same statistical category as winning the lottery), therefore I revert back to a) buying something for her playing/learning enjoyment, and b) limiting my losses in ~10 years.

I completely agree it's an asset that will depreciate in value, no argument there. Now I'm down to weighing the slightly accelerated depreciation of a "lower grade" piano such as the Hallet, Davis vs. the likely slower depreciation of a better piano such as a Kawai or Yamaha. (Sorry to those folks who love pianos; this is the rational/logical side of my my mind coming out).

Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #1361968
01/31/10 01:06 AM
01/31/10 01:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
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In my experience, people rarely resell pianos; they tend (generally) to stay put. If they were good investments, no dealer would ever sell a new one -- they'd just hang onto them! :-)

However, a reason for a higher-quality piano is if it's in a high-use venue such as a church or practice room. This is like buying a commercial-grade power drill vs. a home use one.

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT] #1361988
01/31/10 02:16 AM
01/31/10 02:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,333
New York
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted by Cy Shuster
.....If they were good investments, no dealer would ever sell a new one -- they'd just hang onto them! :-)

I hope the smilie means you realize that's not serious. smile

If it were true, then no investments of any kind would ever get sold; the broker or dealer would just keep them -- stocks, real estate, whatever.

And.....I'm not sure what you mean altogether about people not "reselling" pianos.
It certainly does happen sometimes, for a variety of reasons. I know, because I did -- when I bought a bigger one. And obviously there can be other reasons too.
If you mean people don't usually do it, that's probably true. But it's not a mistake for someone to take the reselling potential into account if they feel it's a relevant concept for them. I surely would, at least indirectly, because it's another way of considering the quality of the instrument.

Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: Mark_C] #1375087
02/15/10 10:31 PM
02/15/10 10:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 504
Tennessee
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PianoMan1958 Offline
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Tennessee
You can find plenty of used Yamaha and Kawai grand pianos on ebay in that price range. Don't be afraid to shop online. You can just about any piano shipped across country for around $1,000 should you find a good deal. I see pianos online all the time that are less than 20 years, many of them slightly used or reconditioned.


Jack in TN

Plays:
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Kawai KG5 grand (church)
Roland RD300GX digital (jazz group)
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT] #1375374
02/16/10 10:19 AM
02/16/10 10:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 654
Hudson, FL
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Hop Offline
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Hudson, FL
Originally Posted by Cy Shuster
Both the Hallet, Davis 6'1" and Perzina 6'1" grands are good values at the $10K mark. I've tuned and maintained many of them. The Perzina has a warmer sound, and is available with beautiful veneer accents on the fallboard and inner lid and rim. The Hallet, Davis has more emphasis on the fundamental.--Cy--


I agree that you should at least shop the new pianos available for under $10K before you buy. You might be surprised. I'd look at the ones recommended above, and I'd especially recommend the Hailun HG (151, 161, or 178), all available (I think) for under $10K. The 178 in particular is a gorgeous sounding piano, and I believe it is available for just under $10K. Also, you might look at the May-Berlin or the Ritzmuller.

Hop


HG178, Roland FP-5, Casio PX 130
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: Hop] #1375402
02/16/10 11:06 AM
02/16/10 11:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 95
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JoeDaBassPlayer Offline
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We are also in the Twin Cities. When we started looking for a piano, we started with a friend of a friend who worked for Schmidt's. That was a mistake. The sales people were very pushy and unprofessional. It was about pushing us out the door with a sale than our getting the right instrument.

The dealer is at least as important as the instrument. We liked the older gentleman at Piano World and ran into Kieran Wells before he started his own shop. (Wells Piano) We ended up buying a used upright from Kieran.

We know many families who have kids in piano. Kawai is about three to four times as popular as Yamaha. Do not stick with just those brands but look at others and look at used as well. Most importantly, go see Kieran.

Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #2722382
03/18/18 10:34 PM
03/18/18 10:34 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 489
Kentucky
M
MH1963 Offline

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Kentucky
Moving up from a low end keyboard to a piano is great! However, the change in touch means that your daughter may experience some initial adjustment. When I made this change, I found that I needed to learn to press the keys with much more force and speed than the cheapie keyboard needed. Just pushing down a key on a cheapie keyboard makes it produce sound. But a piano’s action is different, and she’ll have to learn this. She needs to participate in the decision. If you’re not a piano player, the change in ‘feel’ from a cheap keyboard to an actual piano is more significant than you might realize.


MH1963

'63 Mason & Hamlin Model A
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Working on: Chopin - Mazurka 7 No. 2 / The Prayer - Coates Arrangement / Einaudi - Nefeli
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: MH1963] #2722388
03/18/18 10:52 PM
03/18/18 10:52 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,183
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Online content
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Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by MH1963
Moving up from a low end keyboard to a piano is great! However, the change in touch means that your daughter may experience some initial adjustment. When I made this change, I found that I needed to learn to press the keys with much more force and speed than the cheapie keyboard needed. Just pushing down a key on a cheapie keyboard makes it produce sound. But a piano’s action is different, and she’ll have to learn this. She needs to participate in the decision. If you’re not a piano player, the change in ‘feel’ from a cheap keyboard to an actual piano is more significant than you might realize.
Since this thread is 8 years old we can only hope that his daughter made the transition successfully.


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Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #2722390
03/18/18 10:56 PM
03/18/18 10:56 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,224
Florida
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Lol I was thinking the same thing


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Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #2722699
03/19/18 05:25 PM
03/19/18 05:25 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 489
Kentucky
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MH1963 Offline

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LOL! Interesting! It showed on my list of unread threads, and I didn’t even notice the date. Clearly I need to step away from this keyboard and back to the piano keyboard!


MH1963

'63 Mason & Hamlin Model A
[Linked Image]

Working on: Chopin - Mazurka 7 No. 2 / The Prayer - Coates Arrangement / Einaudi - Nefeli
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #2722834
03/20/18 01:24 AM
03/20/18 01:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
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Kuwait
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Yes, the 11 year old suddenly becomes around 20.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: strokeoluck] #2722845
03/20/18 03:32 AM
03/20/18 03:32 AM
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I'm dying to know if she quit after 3 or 4 years, or stuck with it!


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Best baby grand <$10k? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #2722852
03/20/18 03:49 AM
03/20/18 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Brandon_W_T
May I suggest this...
After playing the Baldwin M 5'2, I have been convinced that it is one of the best baby grands available. You can find a great 2nd hand one for probably under $10,000. I would suggest seeing if you can find a local one.

You get-
The very famous and well respected baldwin name
Sturdy and well built piano
Great volume in a small size
Good tone.

Worth a try!

thumb


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

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