Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
115 registered members (ando, akc42, astrotoy, AssociateX, Arty Movie, AJB, Austerlitz, anotherscott, Animisha, 26 invisible), 1,651 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Kind word about group music education #2720619
03/12/18 06:10 AM
03/12/18 06:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,918
Israel
N
Nahum Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Nahum  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,918
Israel
I began to improvise at the age of 6 years in my head, eight years before I was adopted in children's elementary music school in the class of violin and obligatory piano. All my mental improvisations sounded like Beethoven's "Egmont", in a similar orchestration (with emphasis on timpani).
It stopped at age 8 , when I started a long war with the violin and quite pleasant piano lessons , strictly in accordance with the curriculum, based solely on Soviet and classical music. There was no hint of other, not classic genres, which at that time could only be heard outside the cafes and restaurants; which greatly ignited imagination . After three months of lessons on the piano, I imperceptibly returned to improvisation, this time on the keys; and it gradually began to take more and more time to train. In this I was completely left to myself. Improvisation on the violin, by the way, did not interest me at all.
In addition to individual ones, there were group solfeggio lessons that included pupils on all instruments (vocalists, of course, could not be).And then it turned out that some students tried to play by ear on piano music, from vinyl and seen movies; and it was never classical . The printed notes of such music and songs appeared in the only music shop in my city only after 8 years; that did not affect the curriculum at all.
This way began a constant group exchange of non classic musical information outside the curriculum and outside lessons - during breaks between them. I was a violinist at lessons and a pianist in breaks; and I was not the only one. This tendency intensified ,despite protests and active resistance of teachers, when radio receivers appeared on the market; and it was possible to hear music programs throughout Europe. Students exchanged melodies, chords, compiling, textures and even improvisations; all these were fragments, as in an anecdote: one was able to play C major7, the other - G7/9. In fact, spontaneously emerged an informal system of nonclassical self-education ,as a result of which after mid-60's formed groups of professional jazz musicians with academic education. So it was also in my and in adjacent training groups of the same age .Years later we have met on the stages of restaurants, jazz cafes , dancing clubs and jazz festivals.
Since professional literature on jazz and pop music, not to mention teachers, did not exist at all, until I left, contacts between musicians to exchange the necessary information remained the main and only type of non-classical music education.
I remember with a warm feeling those distant times, when we rejoiced every grain of information on jazz and pop; and if I hadn't studied in group from the very beginning, I probably would have been in a completely different place.



Last edited by Nahum; 03/12/18 03:02 PM.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Kind word about group music education [Re: Nahum] #2720744
03/12/18 03:24 PM
03/12/18 03:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 333
Kent, UK
Simon_b Offline
Full Member
Simon_b  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 333
Kent, UK
Hi Nahum

A very interesting article, thanks. Its very hard to imagine that world now. The internet has given people access to so much music. If you google the phrase "music improvisation" you get access to 68,300 video results. Take out the quotes and its over 1.3 million!

Growing up probably 10 to 15 years later than you (in the 70s) I remember the frustration of wanting to play like my first musical heroes. Elton John being one example, and going into London to a huge sheet music shop (Chappells I think) and buying the sheet music to the album Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, getting it home and thinking; this isn't what Elton John plays. If it had been, I probably wouldn't have been able to play it!

Cheers


Simon
Yamaha CLP535
Casio CTK-7200
Hammond XB1

Play what you enjoy listening to, listen to what you enjoy playing!




Re: Kind word about group music education [Re: Nahum] #2720753
03/12/18 03:46 PM
03/12/18 03:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,918
Israel
N
Nahum Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Nahum  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,918
Israel
Yes, my son completely independently has learned play rock guitar at a fairly good level absolutely without a teacher, only using video tutorials. And still, nothing will replace live communication with your own kind.

Re: Kind word about group music education [Re: Nahum] #2722141
03/18/18 07:10 AM
03/18/18 07:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 25
Athens, Greece
J
jimbeam Offline
Full Member
jimbeam  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 25
Athens, Greece
Hello Nahum,

Thank you for sharing your story and struggle. I started classic piano as a child at a local conservatory. I loved the piano but the teaching of classic music was very sterile and detached. There was no connection between sheet music and chord usage, not to mention improvisation! It was getting hard having to practice for something that didn't seem so rewarding for a child at that time. It's funny reading about Elton John at Simon's reply. I myself went off and had my uncle buy me an Elton John score book, a best-of collection! I remember my Russian piano tutor (I live in Greece but Russian piano tutors have a long history in piano tutoring) had a very hard time playing what was in the book. See, it wasn't classic and also wasn't what I heard on the radio.

So classic piano got a bit unattractive for me. Which is the reason why after 5-6 years I quit and went on playing easy improvisations on my own using my ears and what my guitar-playing uncle "taught" me on the piano smile

Now, as an independent adult man at an age and fortune to be able to make my own living (i'm 37 by the way), I recently decided to go back to piano lessons at a modern conservatory (something like 100 euros/ month for an hour of private modern piano + an hour of theory per week). I decided that this would be my defense tactic against the wealth and frustrations of information out there on the internet. However, there is always the human factor and switching tutors is not as easy and cheap as switching to another video on youtube. But I too prefer the human connection. The slow intake of the bite-sized information. The other students, the other minds. The jokes between, the occasional invitation to a concert, the exchange of info (I'm in computing myself). Plus, I don't "have" to be prepared and at best shape. There is no parent or degree that I have to reach. It's only for my own benefit.

Thanks for sharing again

Jim

Re: Kind word about group music education [Re: Nahum] #2722264
03/18/18 02:46 PM
03/18/18 02:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David Farley  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
When I was growing up in a small town in the '70s, the selection of sheet music of any sort was miserable. Some of the local record stores might have one rack of pop stuff. Classical music was generally ordered by music teachers for their students, and the music stores that sold it were mostly about selling or renting instruments, so they kept very little sheet music in stock as they made next to nothing off of it. If one really wanted something, you usually had to pre-order and then they'd "look for it next time they took a trip to NYC" or sometimes they'd just say no if they didn't want to be bothered. Everything is different now.

Re: Kind word about group music education [Re: Nahum] #2722272
03/18/18 02:58 PM
03/18/18 02:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,918
Israel
N
Nahum Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Nahum  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,918
Israel
David, I was in New York and New Jersey in 1974. There I learned that in US mail is sent to anywhere everything - from the fountain pen till piano. It was inaccurate?

Re: Kind word about group music education [Re: Nahum] #2722322
03/18/18 06:24 PM
03/18/18 06:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David Farley  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted by Nahum
David, I was in New York and New Jersey in 1974. There I learned that in US mail is sent to anywhere everything - from the fountain pen till piano. It was inaccurate?


There was no catalog to order sheet music from, or at least none that anybody where I was located used. Music dealers would either have to make a call to a music distributor (usually one of the big stores in NYC) and arrange for them to mail something. All of which had to be paid for up front. Or they would periodically go to NYC to look for music, although often it was teachers themselves who did this. Oddly enough, one thing one could order through the mail were those Reader's Digest songbooks with the Dan Fox arrangements. Those things are great - I think I might have all of them now. Oddly enough when I was living in NYC I wasn't involved in playing music, so I never visited any of these fabled music stores.

Large items were normally sent through a private shipping company called United Parcel Service (now UPS) and not USPS. That was always interesting as they had absolutely no tracking available, so you never knew when the big brown truck was going to pull up.


Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano & Room Size, Voicing and other Questions
by ShiroKuro. 06/16/19 10:30 AM
Features/sounds: Do you use them? Why why not?
by Bruce In Philly. 06/16/19 09:58 AM
More articles about the decline of the piano
by MSnow. 06/16/19 08:59 AM
Inefficient learning, advice needed
by Tom97. 06/16/19 06:56 AM
Having trouble opening PianoWorld Home
by Rich Galassini. 06/16/19 06:53 AM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics192,545
Posts2,838,337
Members93,618
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1