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Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: toddy] #2722133
03/18/18 05:36 AM
03/18/18 05:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,237
Wales
V
voxpops Offline
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V

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,237
Wales
Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by Granyala
While I agree that mwf's posts are a bit hard to read and contain incorrect information at times, remember not everyone (myself included) is a native English speaker .


Yes, exactly. Proficient English speakers should try putting their posts in Spanish, say. That is the kind of difficulty faced by non-native English speakers every time they write on a forum like this. I'm amazed how effectively contributers like Cybergene and Granyala write in English. But not all non-native speakers can be expected to be so clear.

I agree totally, Toddy. My rather silly intervention was tongue-in-cheek, but hopefully not flippant. As long as we can all understand one another, and do our best to communicate effectively, then it seems unnecessary to call each other out for minor errors that do not affect the intelligibility of the post. It spoils the flow of the thread.

And back on topic: I played an FP-90 for the first time a few weeks ago... and I won't be buying one. I just could not get past the synthetic-sounding middle register. I would rather have the old SN or Pianoteq any day. Over and out.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
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Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: mwf] #2722140
03/18/18 07:09 AM
03/18/18 07:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 279
9190 Offline
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9190  Offline
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Posts: 279
("Offtop: my answer to mwf")

mwf, you're rude and take things too much to heart. I've noticed your unfriendly reaction not only to my posts. Otherwise I wouldn't point to your misprints and mistakes (and I pointed not all of them, some of them even change general sense of your posts).

What could I recommend?

1) Read François de La Rochefoucauld (1613 – 1680) – French author of maxims. Here's one of them:

«Little minds are too much wounded by little things; great minds see all and are not even hurt».

2) Play more Johann Sebastian Bach. It can help to organize yourself, develop clarity of mind and pay more attention to details.

P.S. I won't stop to be pedantic. I respect this quality in people and would be grateful to people, who would point out to my mistakes, misprints etc. instead of falling into panic.

Cheers!

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: AlexBltn] #2722184
03/18/18 10:30 AM
03/18/18 10:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,747
Portugal
T
toddy Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,747
Portugal
Originally Posted by AlexBltn

For me English is also not my native language, but in mwf's profile it's written "United Kingdom"… Even if English isn't his native language, at least he lives in English-speaking country… I live far from any English-speaking country.


There may be a misapprehension here: being in an exclusively English speaking environment does not necessarily ensure that clearer English expression will emerge. There are a lot of positive effects of being bi- or multi-lingual. One of them is the nurturing of a humility which comes from an ever present reminder that your native tongue is one amongst many. Monoglots often fail to grasp this. It's a bit like when you're a five year old kid in the playground who believes with all his heart that his dad is the strongest man in the world.

Whilst in a child, that is an endearing aspect of innocence and nascent loyalty, its persistence into adulthood would be obtuse and grotesque.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2722246
03/18/18 02:09 PM
03/18/18 02:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 586
United Kingdom
M
mwf Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 586
United Kingdom
I do not have a lot of time to write hence the quick messages I write out, so my English will not always be perfect. But I can assure you I am born and bred in the UK, England to be exact and want to help people not argue, so I would highly recommend you don't keep trying to correct my English because I can guarantee you its better than yours, at least I don't try to be clever all the time like some of you arrogant, conceited people that use this forum. Just because you play the piano it seems you automatically are better than other people and have the authority to make corrections and assumptions, when I said real-time render, I meant real-time export, my sincere apologies for that Granyala or whatever your name is, I know you keep going back to this.

I was only trying to help bigbang initially but then the others on here for some reason just wanted to dispute my posts as much as possible, pointing out things that don't matter.

If any of you want to discuss English in more detail let me know, but I would rather stick to pianos.

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: 9190] #2722247
03/18/18 02:12 PM
03/18/18 02:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 586
United Kingdom
M
mwf Offline
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mwf  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 586
United Kingdom
Originally Posted by 9190
("Offtop: my answer to mwf")

mwf, you're rude and take things too much to heart. I've noticed your unfriendly reaction not only to my posts. Otherwise I wouldn't point to your misprints and mistakes (and I pointed not all of them, some of them even change general sense of your posts).

What could I recommend?

1) Read François de La Rochefoucauld (1613 – 1680) – French author of maxims. Here's one of them:

«Little minds are too much wounded by little things; great minds see all and are not even hurt».

2) Play more Johann Sebastian Bach. It can help to organize yourself, develop clarity of mind and pay more attention to details.

P.S. I won't stop to be pedantic. I respect this quality in people and would be grateful to people, who would point out to my mistakes, misprints etc. instead of falling into panic.

Cheers!


I have played Bach for decades and am highly organised and pay attention to details thanks, thanks so much for pointing that useless information out to me.

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2722262
03/18/18 02:45 PM
03/18/18 02:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,774
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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peterws  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,774
Northern England.
Roland won't be 'appy that the subject matter on here lately has b*gger all to do wiv him . . . . I 'ope he's not a Monoglot .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: voxpops] #2722305
03/18/18 05:13 PM
03/18/18 05:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 568
Celestis
Granyala Offline
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Granyala  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 568
Celestis
Originally Posted by mwf
at least I don't try to be clever all the time like some of you arrogant, conceited people that use this forum.

To be perfectly frank: the only one in this thread that came across as arrogant and aggressive was you.
Just a polite advice: If you do not have time to type out posts and explanations: don't. It is better not to answer a question than to disseminate misinformation or create more confusion due to hastily typed text riddled with contradictions and factual errors.

Originally Posted by voxpops
And back on topic: I played an FP-90 for the first time a few weeks ago... and I won't be buying one. I just could not get past the synthetic-sounding middle register. I would rather have the old SN or Pianoteq any day.


Question (purely academic curiosity), since I won't have the chance to try out a Roland anytime soon: how different does SN sound compared to Pianoteq?
I'd imagine that they would sound very similar, b/c i'd expect the math behind the curtain to follow largely the same equations.

Last edited by Granyala; 03/18/18 05:19 PM.

The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: Granyala] #2722330
03/18/18 06:48 PM
03/18/18 06:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 190
Warsaw, Poland
A
AlphaBravoCharlie Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 190
Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted by Granyala

Question (purely academic curiosity), since I won't have the chance to try out a Roland anytime soon: how different does SN sound compared to Pianoteq?
I'd imagine that they would sound very similar, b/c i'd expect the math behind the curtain to follow largely the same equations.


I would say Modeled SN's behaviour is somehow more realistic, but the base sound signature is more piano-like in Pianoteq. I would choose the latter everytime. I don't think Roland or Modartt would be willing to share their technology with competitors, so they probably use 2 independent calculations.


Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6.5 (Steinway B, D; K2 Grand)
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2722337
03/18/18 07:58 PM
03/18/18 07:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,774
Northern England.
peterws Offline
7000 Post Club Member
peterws  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,774
Northern England.
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Originally Posted by Granyala

Question (purely academic curiosity), since I won't have the chance to try out a Roland anytime soon: how different does SN sound compared to Pianoteq?
I'd imagine that they would sound very similar, b/c i'd expect the math behind the curtain to follow largely the same equations.


I would say Modeled SN's behaviour is somehow more realistic, but the base sound signature is more piano-like in Pianoteq. I would choose the latter everytime. I don't think Roland or Modartt would be willing to share their technology with competitors, so they probably use 2 independent calculations.


I did a comparison between the old s/n of the FP50 and the DGX 650. Two pianos on one song. After reducing slightly the bass on the Roland to suit, the two were not noticeably different, they sounded fine imo.

Pianoteq D4 has similarities to my FP particularly wrt the initial metallicky attack; the timbre of which doesn't seem to change much with striking force differences, although of course, the volume will. D4 sounds more natural and woody and you can de-tune it which I cannot do with Roland. Now, whoever played a perfectly in tune acoustic? Even when the tuner had just walked out the door . . .? That is neither natural or super.

Since everybody has their own opinions, let me say I only use Pianoteq now; the Grotrian is great especially with the keyboard and pedal clatter and stuff which this Roland hasn't got.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2727708
04/09/18 01:55 PM
04/09/18 01:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 109
Paris - France
B
bigbang Offline
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bigbang  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 109
Paris - France
Hi guys.

My new cover :-)

Ennio Morricone : Chi Mai

VSTi : Garritan CFX Lite, Crystal preset.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVSbL-cynEA

I hope you like my work !
It was a difficult left hand...

I had some issues with the sustain and I couldn't fix it in cubase.

Bye.


Roland FP-90 / Garritan CFX Lite / Cubase Elements 9.5 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2727713
04/09/18 02:25 PM
04/09/18 02:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 109
Paris - France
B
bigbang Offline
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bigbang  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 109
Paris - France
C# at 1:16 not sustained
I edited sustain in midi piano roll but i couldn't correct it :-(

Same note at 3:06 and same problem...

Last edited by bigbang; 04/09/18 02:27 PM.

Roland FP-90 / Garritan CFX Lite / Cubase Elements 9.5 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2727889
04/10/18 09:15 AM
04/10/18 09:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 109
Paris - France
B
bigbang Offline
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bigbang  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 109
Paris - France
Here the sustain in Cubase ai 9
I tried to move points but the note is still dry.
What can I do ?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14oake-V56TWkmGjOipbmFQeEYMIjOOxu

Last edited by bigbang; 04/10/18 09:16 AM.

Roland FP-90 / Garritan CFX Lite / Cubase Elements 9.5 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2734572
05/06/18 04:03 PM
05/06/18 04:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 109
Paris - France
B
bigbang Offline
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bigbang  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 109
Paris - France
Hi. My new piano cover.

1956's American Rock'n Roll :-)

Louis Prima - Just a gigolo.
I hope you like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjtMjN53ytA

Garritan CFX Lite (crystal preset).

Cheers.


Roland FP-90 / Garritan CFX Lite / Cubase Elements 9.5 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2737107
05/16/18 10:18 AM
05/16/18 10:18 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6
K
kapeIIi Offline
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kapeIIi  Offline
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K

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6
I have a though choice in my hands: can buy used ES8 for quite good price, or new one Roland FP-90. I found a shop, in which there is ES8 and some Roland cabinet HP piano of current series, so action and sound is the same as in the FP90. While I was almost convinced to buy blindly ES8, there are two things which I did not personally liked: the piano is too sensitive on touch (even tested on Heavy touch setting), and top three octaves are too bright – be it both on headphones and external speakers. I played many times on CA67 and 97, and never noticed it, these pianos are perfectly balanced, so I was hoping to get the same impression, but, to my surprise, it is not. Maybe Kawai changed the settings somehow, taking into consideration it’s on stage usage and need of cut through other instruments.

Additionally, I was not happy with RHAIII action. It’s too light and my fingers do not feel being properly supported while playing. There is something strange in that action.

What I like though, is the realism of sounds, it’s depth and richness, naturality and so on, but in some cases you can hear that it’s indeed still synthetic.

Afterwards, I was playing on ROland console and RD2000, same action same sound generator, but with different manufacturing set-ups. Action is really big step above the RHAIII. It’s faster, gives you support, and heavier. My whole life before I was playing on acoustics uprights and grands of all sort, and difference between PHA50 and RHAIII is really big, but I can understand, that people who spend whole life playing on electronic instruments may praise ES8 action. What I also like on Roland, is that it’s behavior was much closer to a real grand than Kawai. On Kawai it was easy for me to hit loud, unwanted note, not happened on Kawai. I mean, that effect was just far exaggerated. What I did not like on Roland though, is that it’s bass sound very synthetic.

I would like to avoid price discussion, because I want a good piano. I buy it for years, and little bit less or more paid doesn’t really affect me so much right now.

Below are my pros and cons and maybe you can help me somehow what to buy.
Kawai :
+ natural, rich, warm sound
+ slightly more compact
+ good VT
- Action (too light, not supportive)
- Sound behavior different than CA67/97 (strange or intended? Piano was reset to factory setting, could be also the reason that ES8 Had to be put much louder than CA series to provide proper sound level)
- Bass response is muddy and in complex pieces there is just big mess and it’s not clear at all

Roland:
+ action (huge plus)
+ more natural behavior
+ VT possibilities
- Synthetic sound, almosts like a sinewave
- Impossible to make it sound rich and natural???


If it would be possible to recreate on FP90 and sound, with which Roland recorded it’s LX17 promo video with La Campanella, than I take Roland with no hesitation. I will play 50/50 headphones plus onboard sound system.

I am trying to do a next try, but I am 50/50 right now. If there would be ES8 successor with Pianist mode and their new wooded action, that would be a dealbraker, but perhaps it will never come or we will wait for it still many months. But who know what Roland will come with new models (as perhaps they will release something in September, that would be 3 years wince their LX/HP premiere, but FP was released later on). I spend few years on waiting for better models, and result is that I lost few years of playing, and I do not want to lose any more week… In a sense of waiting for new models, not buying in a hurry, of course.

I have will have also my child born in November, so I will definitely not use computer to provide external sound generators (Pianoteq or VST). I have space constrains, otherwise I would buy Kawai CA78.

Another questions to long time users: did you get used to play on Roland sounds, or it rather starts to be irritating after time?

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2737127
05/16/18 11:09 AM
05/16/18 11:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 236
PA
puremusic Offline
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 236
PA
It's real nice to read about a comparison with the ES8, I've always been curious about the competition.

I am spoiled by VSTs and so can't get really used to the Roland FP-90 sounds. At first I liked the expressiveness of them, but so far I can't adjust the upper middle register to sound like what I like, and that's where I play most. The sound has a certain character I can't change, so despite the expressiveness it's also set in a way. I don't think fiddling much more with the sound options on board will change my opinion, though I do fiddle and fiddle with it and am curious as to what other folks settings are. I do wonder if I had gotten the RD-2000 if all the flexibility with the controls there would've helped too.

Hmm.. I'd say it feels like an electric piano rather than a piano for playing classical style, and this playing with 'concert piano' preset. It sounds better played quickly than played with slow and lingering sounds, this is key, and something that threw me because when I first started playing it, I thought does playing skill matter so much the demos online sounded better -- it was that the demos were played quickly rather than slowly and lingeringly, or suited an electric piano genre.

This all aside I love the keybed, and enjoy playing it.

When my new audio interface arrives, if I can get it to the 1.5ms latency advertised, I'll touch the built in sounds even less than I already do I fear. I use Arturia Piano V rather than Pianotech, finally a modeled piano that doesn't sound synthetic.

For you unless the FP-90's sounds grab you and appeal to you, why would you get a piano you don't like the sound of, no matter how good the keybed is? If you're a VST guy it's one thing, if you're not, it's quite another, you'll be stuck with something unpleasant. Well you might be an electric piano guy, in which case that's different! This is a matter of taste..

My two cents for what they're worth -- I am not a trained pianist, just a hobbyist.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2737170
05/16/18 01:35 PM
05/16/18 01:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 114
Denver, USA
W
WarrenY Offline
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Posts: 114
Denver, USA
@kapeIIi
When I got my FP90, I also didn't like the default presets, particular the bass notes. I adjusted with the onboard EQ sliders, dialing down the lows and upping the mids and highs, and that helped a bit.

However, once I used their Digital Designer, I was able to find a sound I like. They have quite a few custom tunings to choose from, and since I use headphones most of the time, I tried all those made for other Roland models as well. I picked one closest to my taste, tweaked a little further, saved it and that's it.

Besides, FP90 powers up so fast in like 3 secs and it's ready to play. So, when I practice, I am not using the VSTs I have. I use those when I have time or want to do some recordings.

If you have to choose between action vs. sound, always choose the action. Sound can be easily replaced but action cannot.


Yamaha U1 | Roland FP90+JBL LSR305
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2737224
05/16/18 04:49 PM
05/16/18 04:49 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6
K
kapeIIi Offline
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kapeIIi  Offline
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K

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6
Thanks both of you for answers. Both of your points are valid. I will go and test the pianos once again.

@puremusic,
While I agree that there is no sense in purchasing piano with the sound one do not like, it makes no sense to buy a piano in which you do not like the action as well.

warrenY,
I agree with your last point. Also, Roland sounds much better while sitting at piano than via YouTube, where it sounds horribly thin and synthetic.

I just found out, that most probably I will be able to run any VST or Pianoteq on miniPC like MINIX n4200 or other of similar type. They are small and compact, unfortunately needs someadditional investment... but that I can it during later time.

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2737243
05/16/18 06:14 PM
05/16/18 06:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 236
PA
puremusic Offline
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 236
PA
If you the miniPC/VST route can work out for you, there you go. smile

Warren, I'd be curious about your settings if you find the time. smile


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2737246
05/16/18 06:20 PM
05/16/18 06:20 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 550
B
Beakybird Offline
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Beakybird  Offline
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 550
I use the FP-90 with VST's. For me, it's got a great feel. I'm going to play this keyboard until it breaks and there are no longer replacement parts.


Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2737280
05/16/18 08:40 PM
05/16/18 08:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 114
Denver, USA
W
WarrenY Offline
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WarrenY  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 114
Denver, USA
@Beakybird
Agreed! I am happy with the PHA50 action and will likely play until it breaks as well.

@puremusic
I am used to the brighter Yamaha tone but, even that, I found those "Hugo Veryzer" tunings a little too much. So, I settled with the "FP90 Home Tuning" as base (your preference may be well be very different), then I dialed down Cabinet resonance and Full-scale string resonance a notch or two ... I might have change the Lid open setting too. The important part of these custom tunings from the app is per note tune-ups that their authors spent time on. I recall that there was a LX17 owner on this forum who tirelessly tweaked all these himself, pulled the result file from his Android phone and posted here. I don't know how to do this though ...


Yamaha U1 | Roland FP90+JBL LSR305
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