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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Omalikular] #2735673
05/11/18 06:49 AM
05/11/18 06:49 AM
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peterws Offline
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Just wondering if VPC-2 is any nearer? That could be my next piano if it came with either GF compact, or RH (suitably silenced). Maybe they could do a production run on both, to see how they go . . .

Last edited by peterws; 05/11/18 09:12 AM.

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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Omalikular] #2735680
05/11/18 07:00 AM
05/11/18 07:00 AM
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We'll find out when it's launched :))
Given the fp90 for only 350e more, I think they should do something by now... But it's probably still selling well as a niche product (there are no other piano controllers with a comparable action) and gliding on its reputation, despite interesting alternatives already on the market.

Edit:
I see the fp90 in white for just 200e more than the Vpc1. That's a very easy choice in my opinion. Or for 3-400e more you can get "a stand and key-cover" included in the for of HP601 or the Ca48 for kawai fans, both with better actions IMHO.

Last edited by mcoll; 05/11/18 07:10 AM.
Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Kawai James] #2735692
05/11/18 07:55 AM
05/11/18 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
jfl, which stand would you use with the VPC1? I dare say there is a stacker accessory for the K&M 18950 table stand that would facilitate the table top rack that you wish to use.

Kind regards,
James
x


Thanks for the reply James: It's an odd set-up to be sure. I have limited space in my living room and the 'primary keyboard' will be either an NV10 or an N2X (if Yamaha releases it this year and I like it better than the NV10) in the middle of the room. My midi controller is tucked in the corner on a table with other electronics. It actually works quite well that way but can't accommodate a stand. My current midi keyboard (Roland A-88) is the perfect size as the body only extends about 4 inches past the keys, but the action is crap.

Once I get the hybrid, I may find that I can also use that as my midi keyboard (depending on whether the sound is satisfactory feeding a PC audio device back into the hybrid sound system). If so, I'll decommission the A-88, but it would be great to have a decent action in the meantime as I'm having difficulty accurately practicing some of the technical nuances on the A-88. If the VPC1 had a flat top, It would be perfect. I really need that real estate on top.

I also have a Casio Privia (on a K&M stand) in the basement. I suppose if I got the VPC1 and couldn't make it work as the primary keyboard, I might replace the Casio with it, but I'd rather find a solution to the 'flat top' problem. Kawai made an unfortunate design decision here in my opinion.

Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Omalikular] #2735709
05/11/18 09:36 AM
05/11/18 09:36 AM
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If the "flat top" is really the only hindrance: Buy a shelf board of the right size (and color), put four rubber feet beneath it so that the height of the feet is a tad more than the curvature of the VPC-1 top, put that board on top of the VPC-1. Voila - flat!

(Or maybe two boards left and right of the music rest, or maybe a long board, then with six or eight rubber feet - but then you need to be careful when attaching the feet, or the result will be wobbly.)

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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: mcoll] #2735761
05/11/18 01:17 PM
05/11/18 01:17 PM
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peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by mcoll

Edit:
I see the fp90 in white for just 200e more than the Vpc1. That's a very easy choice in my opinion. Or for 3-400e more you can get "a stand and key-cover" included in the for of HP601 or the Ca48 for kawai fans, both with better actions IMHO.


A very easy choice? Is PHA50 THAT good? I think not. The new compact Kawai beats it, imo and so does the RHlll found in the CN27 etc. Trouble is, they're not quiet, are they? The PHA4 (Roland RP102) was also very good. Felt lovely but the piano lacked serious dynamics, not surprisingly. (shrug) I really don't know what I'll buy when the time comes. . . . I've got 5 months!
Guess I'll have to return to the planet whence I came and see what they have there . . . .


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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: peterws] #2735786
05/11/18 03:29 PM
05/11/18 03:29 PM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by mcoll

Edit:
I see the fp90 in white for just 200e more than the Vpc1. That's a very easy choice in my opinion. Or for 3-400e more you can get "a stand and key-cover" included in the for of HP601 or the Ca48 for kawai fans, both with better actions IMHO.


A very easy choice? Is PHA50 THAT good? I think not. The new compact Kawai beats it, i

I guess it all depends, how close do you want the action to feel compared to an acoustic, arguably kawai wins, I think it does on the whole, but do you want something that feels fast and agile, possibly PHA50 wins over grand feel IMO.

I don't pay too much attention to how close to acoustic it feels, I ask the question, which do I prefer to express myself. The more acoustics i have tried, as crazy as it may sound, few acoustic actions rival the precision of digital actions, unless they are in tip top shape, but they rarely are in my experience ... thus far, shock horror laugh


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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: peterws] #2735797
05/11/18 04:29 PM
05/11/18 04:29 PM
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mcoll Offline
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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by mcoll

Edit:
I see the fp90 in white for just 200e more than the Vpc1. That's a very easy choice in my opinion. Or for 3-400e more you can get "a stand and key-cover" included in the for of HP601 or the Ca48 for kawai fans, both with better actions IMHO.


A very easy choice? Is PHA50 THAT good? I think not. The new compact Kawai beats it, imo and so does the RHlll found in the CN27 etc. Trouble is, they're not quiet, are they? The PHA4 (Roland RP102) was also very good. Felt lovely but the piano lacked serious dynamics, not surprisingly. (shrug) I really don't know what I'll buy when the time comes. . . . I've got 5 months!
Guess I'll have to return to the planet whence I came and see what they have there . . . .


Actually it is. IMHO it is definitely better than the VPC1 and even more so than the RH3. I haven't compared to the GF-compact, which I expect to be very good, even if the pivot is still slightly shorter. In its case it would be more a matter of preference.
The pha50 is nimble and crisp and quite acoustic-like, depending on the acoustic. Alexander Borro describes it very well in the post above.
I was in a very big music store 2 years ago and it felt remarkably like some smaller Steinways (I think it resembled a model O the most). Not so similar to the two Boesendorfers and even less so to a couple of Yamahas. There's a large variety among acoustics as well.
It is a very good action and it's at the point where it boils down to preference.

Last edited by mcoll; 05/11/18 10:14 PM. Reason: Several mistakes
Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: mcoll] #2735819
05/11/18 05:56 PM
05/11/18 05:56 PM
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peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by mcoll


Actually it is. IMHO it is definitely better than the VPC1 and even more so than the RH3. I haven't compared to the GF-compact, which I expect to be very good, even if the pivot is still slightly shorter. I really expect it to be very good to and there it would be more a matter of preference.
The pha50 is nimble and crisp and quite acoustic-like, depending on the acoustic. Alexander Borro describes it very well in the post above.
I was in a very big music store 2 years ago and it felt remarkably like some smaller Steinways (I think it resembled a model O the most). Not so similar to the two Bosendoerfers and even less so to a couple of Yamahas. There's a large variety among acoustics as well.
It is a very good action and it's at the point where it boils down to preference.


Well, I did manage to squeeze in an "imo" somewhere . . . . .


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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Omalikular] #2735851
05/11/18 10:17 PM
05/11/18 10:17 PM
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mcoll Offline
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Of course! All of us were going (mostly) on opinion smile
And there are those who share your opinion and those who share mine. In the end everybody will have they're own preference and that's what matters most smile

Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Omalikular] #2775173
10/24/18 09:57 AM
10/24/18 09:57 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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How often does Kawai release new generations of existing products? In particular, the VPC1 is coming up on its 6th birthday, and with NAMM only 3 months away, what is the likelihood of a VPC2 early next year?

I've been toying with the idea of upgrading my FP-30, to a keyboard with a better piano feel. A midi controller is fine since I don't really care about sound. I can use a VST for that.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Omalikular] #2775212
10/24/18 11:43 AM
10/24/18 11:43 AM
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Despite I think that nothing new will be in NAMM (about Kawai midi controller), maximum we can imagine and expect is VPC1SE with GF compact and some cosmetic changes, maybe flat top but hardly because all others doesn`t have it.

Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2775244
10/24/18 02:31 PM
10/24/18 02:31 PM
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I gather that Kawai has no reason to create a new model because:
1. The VPC fits into a very narrow market space.
2. It has no competition.
3. What's wrong with version 1 that would make people clamor for a version 2?
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
How often does Kawai release new generations of existing products? In particular, the VPC1 is coming up on its 6th birthday, and with NAMM only 3 months away, what is the likelihood of a VPC2 early next year?

Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: MacMacMac] #2775249
10/24/18 02:47 PM
10/24/18 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I gather that Kawai has no reason to create a new model because:
1. The VPC fits into a very narrow market space.
2. It has no competition.
3. What's wrong with version 1 that would make people clamor for a version 2 ?

Correct, I have VPC 4 years and only logical step forward from there will be Novus or Avant grand or Acoustic. There is nothing wrong with version 1, in fact I still think it is among the best key actions in the market and paying 1k more for MP11 is ridiculous for me especially if someone playing at home and don`t need internal sounds. But people are different. Anyway, there is no reason to wait.

Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: slobajudge] #2775267
10/24/18 05:09 PM
10/24/18 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
There is nothing wrong with version 1, in fact I still think it is among the best key actions in the market and paying 1k more for MP11 is ridiculous for me especially if someone playing at home and don`t need internal sounds.

You've exactly touched on why I am waiting, but probably nor beyond NAMM. Because I am really only considering two keyboards: the VPC1 and the MP11. I don't need all the stuff in an MP11. I was hoping that the VPC1's RM3 Grand II would be replaced in a VPC2 with the MP11/CA's Grand Feel action. But that said, I'm not going to pay double the price for that. So if NAMM doesn't see an upgrade to the VPC, I may just bite the bullet and get a VPC1.


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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: MacMacMac] #2775307
10/24/18 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
3. What's wrong with version 1 that would make people clamor for a version 2

I think the biggest upgrade would be the ability to use the MP11SEs 3 optical pedals, because the F-30 has a pretty bad rep.


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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: Omalikular] #2791865
12/16/18 06:55 AM
12/16/18 06:55 AM
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With the advent of VSTs, piano controllers like the VPC1 and digital pianos with upgradeable samples/tones (think Nord & Dexibell) are the future. the VPC1 piano controller concept is very likely going to gain a much larger foothold in the years to come. It's niche is already expanding and will further expand into the future. I commend Kawai for developing such a product ahead of everybody else and really hope that they will not neglect this product going forward,



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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: halherta] #2791878
12/16/18 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by halherta
With the advent of VSTs, piano controllers like the VPC1 and digital pianos with upgradeable samples/tones (think Nord & Dexibell) are the future. the VPC1 piano controller concept is very likely going to gain a much larger foothold in the years to come. It's niche is already expanding and will further expand into the future. I commend Kawai for developing such a product ahead of everybody else and really hope that they will not neglect this product going forward,


The controller is the way to go, it's nice to have things separate, if the computer breaks you replace it, if the key contact board fails you replace it, if the speakers fail you replace them, but the nice action is future proof, just like an acoustic piano, it will last forever. Also I think that anything less than a grand feel action will become obsolete in 1 year.

Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: pold] #2791904
12/16/18 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by pold
Also I think that anything less than a grand feel action will become obsolete in 1 year.

Then the VPC1 is not the way to go for you, since it has a RM3 Grand II action, not the Grand Feel action which is in the MP11SE. You'll have to wait and see if there is a VPC2 also.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: pold] #2791956
12/16/18 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by halherta
With the advent of VSTs, piano controllers like the VPC1 and digital pianos with upgradeable samples/tones (think Nord & Dexibell) are the future. the VPC1 piano controller concept is very likely going to gain a much larger foothold in the years to come. It's niche is already expanding and will further expand into the future. I commend Kawai for developing such a product ahead of everybody else and really hope that they will not neglect this product going forward,


The controller is the way to go, it's nice to have things separate, if the computer breaks you replace it, if the key contact board fails you replace it, if the speakers fail you replace them, but the nice action is future proof, just like an acoustic piano, it will last forever. Also I think that anything less than a grand feel action will become obsolete in 1 year.


I agree with this sentiment. Having each component of a DP setup separated like that reduces points of failures and allows the owner to optimize each component independently i.e. speakers, keybed action, audio interface e.t.c.

I predict the VPC2 will probably get a flat top, optical 3-pedal and either a GF-C action without a price hike or a GF I/II action with a price hike. Adding the GF I/II action to the VPC2 without a price hike doesn't make much financial sense for Kawai as it will cannibalize MP11SE sales. I don't know if the VPC2 will be released in NAMM 2019 but I'd be surprised if it isn't released some time in the next two years or so.



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Re: Kawai VPC1 or wait? [Re: pold] #2791957
12/16/18 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pold

The controller is the way to go, it's nice to have things separate, if the computer breaks you replace it, if the key contact board fails you replace it, if the speakers fail you replace them, but the nice action is future proof, just like an acoustic piano, it will last forever. Also I think that anything less than a grand feel action will become obsolete in 1 year.


The thing is, a piano keyboard might be ONLY a controller (like the VPC1) or any number of similarly priced DPs which work just as well (though without built in velocity curves). When you say 'grand feel' do you mean Grand Feel as in Kawai, or any good hammer action by Yamaha, Roland, Casio etc.?

Two things were not clear to me: Why would any action other than 'grand feel' become 'obsolete in 1 year'? And on the other hand, Why would a controller keyboard be any more future proof than any other DP. (Some people expect about 5 years trouble free out of a DP although personally I don't agree - anything less than 20 years problem free usage from a DP would be a bit of a disappointment).


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