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Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: anotherscott] #2716439
02/22/18 03:22 PM
02/22/18 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by EssBrace
They're saying it's a brand-newly developed action.

Can you point to a direct source for the quote? It could mean something different depending on the exact wording. For example, "we're using a brand new action for this model" can simply mean that it's a brand new action for them, i.e. one they have not used before, not necessarily one that's new to the world.


I've seen a couple of quite explicit references. I can't find one of them, but here is one I remember seeing from before NAMM on instagram...quite what it means is open to interpretation.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdsZ5guA4JA/?hl=en&taken-by=dexibell


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
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Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: RichieBill] #2716457
02/22/18 04:16 PM
02/22/18 04:16 PM
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Warsaw, Poland
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Gosh, okay thanks.
The demos of the German and Japan grands sound excellent. Very present and natural.


Any body know which acoustic pianos were used for? Yamaha, Kawai, Bechstein, Steinway?


Hello wink I just playtested new sounds and what my ears tell me: Japan Grand - very Kawai-sh, sounds nothing like Yamaha at all; Germand Grand - probably Hamburg Steinway.

To be honest, I was expecting 'Japan Grand' to be some bright, pop-sounding Yamaha, but it's nothing like that. It has some nice metallic resonance, but at the same time it's mellow. 'German Grand' - I think I'm not a big fan of this one. Somehow thinner and cleaner than 'Vivo Grand' and even darker sounding.


Last edited by Qaroll; 02/22/18 04:18 PM.

Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: napilopez] #2716468
02/22/18 04:56 PM
02/22/18 04:56 PM
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For what it's worth - and for the sake of comparison with Nord for instance - the German grand is 290MB and the Japanese grand is 360MB.


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: napilopez] #2716472
02/22/18 05:06 PM
02/22/18 05:06 PM
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We’ve recently discussed how a well-crafted FLAC compression (lossless) can achieve up to 1:10 compression ratio. For instance the CFX Lite installer is 2GB and it uncompresses to more than 20GB samples. Wondering if Nord and Dexibell samples are compressed. If so, a 360MB would correspond to what would have been 3.5GB in the past.


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Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: napilopez] #2716482
02/22/18 05:44 PM
02/22/18 05:44 PM
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Is CFX shipped in FLAC? I'm far from an expert on this, but I assumed FLAC achieves "reasonable" storage savings in exchange for fast-decode for real-time playback.

CFX's compression is for shipping an installer, meaning it would benefit from a compression scheme that maximizes space savings above all else. It doesn't matter if it takes hours to decompress (it almost does, actually) since it's a one-time operation and can take as long (or as much CPU time) as needed.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: Gombessa] #2716488
02/22/18 06:00 PM
02/22/18 06:00 PM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Is CFX shipped in FLAC? I'm far from an expert on this, but I assumed FLAC achieves "reasonable" storage savings in exchange for fast-decode for real-time playback.

CFX's compression is for shipping an installer, meaning it would benefit from a compression scheme that maximizes space savings above all else. It doesn't matter if it takes hours to decompress (it almost does, actually) since it's a one-time operation and can take as long (or as much CPU time) as needed.


It's not necessarily FLAC, there are other types of lossless audio compression. What's important is that this a specific compression algorithm suitable for PCM data (think WAV, e.g. an audio wave made of points). A zip compression won't be able to achieve this level of compression for a PCM data, although it's a lossless compression too. ZIP is intended more for detecting repeating patterns (this is an oversimplifications though), which is why it achieves huge compression ratios with text files.

So, FLAC is not a compression that tries to seek compromises between compression ratio and CPU usage, it's rather the best you can do to compress a PCM data without loss. However it's not very resource intensive and can be decompressed and played in realtime by the most modest CPU-s. However if you will be playing multiple piano samples with low latency, that would create a considerable load on the CPU which is why CFX is decompressed on installation (one-off). However Vintage D for instance (a Kontakt library) is not decompressed and is most probably decompressed on the fly.

One specific advantage piano samples have with lossless schemes (linear prediction + error coding) is that all piano samples start with a loud attack but follow a relatively quiet decay and thus the algorithm uses less bits for the sustain part. Which is why piano samples can be compressed with FLAC up to 1:10, whereas regular music is about 1:2.

Last edited by CyberGene; 02/22/18 06:03 PM.

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Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: napilopez] #2716489
02/22/18 06:12 PM
02/22/18 06:12 PM
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FLAC is designed to support a prediction function using more or less samples. Up to a 32th order FIR. The more accurate the function is, the more 0/+1/-1 we have to encode and the more space we save. (As with morse code where the frequent “e” is coded by a plain dot “.”). I suppose current FLAC files use a smaller order and faster filter to compress and decompress.

This may be the way CFX is shipped. But a 10 to 1 compression seems me a quite important ratio. (0/-1/+1 could require 2bits, then a 1/8 ratio from 16 bits).

If another way to compress the files is used (other than just coding differences between predictions and actual values), I would be interested to know the principle.


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Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: CyberGene] #2716513
02/22/18 08:19 PM
02/22/18 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
We’ve recently discussed how a well-crafted FLAC compression (lossless) can achieve up to 1:10 compression ratio. For instance the CFX Lite installer is 2GB and it uncompresses to more than 20GB samples. Wondering if Nord and Dexibell samples are compressed. If so, a 360MB would correspond to what would have been 3.5GB in the past.

If CFX is 2 GB as a download but needs to decompress to 20 GB before you can play a note, then it sounds like it is being compressed into a format that cannot directly be decompressed and played in real time, and so would not be comparable to a Nord/Dexibell download that is already the size it plays from.

Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: jaybee12] #2716578
02/23/18 05:32 AM
02/23/18 05:32 AM
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UPDATE on availability problems:

After waiting a few weeks for S7 delivery I have been in contact with Mike at Proel (thanks again EssBrace) who was exceptionally helpful and has very kindly sorted me out with a board. Delivery on Saturday fingers crossed.

Out of interest Mike also said the S9 is still at the prototype stage currently and is expected to be released in the summer. It will be the Dexi flagship model, obvs, and run alongside the S7.

Last edited by jaybee12; 02/23/18 05:33 AM.
Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: jaybee12] #2716586
02/23/18 06:40 AM
02/23/18 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jaybee12
UPDATE on availability problems:

After waiting a few weeks for S7 delivery I have been in contact with Mike at Proel (thanks again EssBrace) who was exceptionally helpful and has very kindly sorted me out with a board. Delivery on Saturday fingers crossed.


Excellent news! Let us know how it goes.

Steve


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: jaybee12] #2717270
02/26/18 03:26 AM
02/26/18 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jaybee12
After waiting a few weeks for S7 delivery I have been in contact with Mike at Proel (thanks again EssBrace) who was exceptionally helpful and has very kindly sorted me out with a board. Delivery on Saturday fingers crossed.


Nice one! wink

I've met Mike a couple of times at Musikmesse, he's a really great guy, and extremely knowledgeable about the instruments - you're in good hands!

Cheers,
James
x


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Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: EssBrace] #2718002
03/01/18 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by jaybee12
UPDATE on availability problems:

After waiting a few weeks for S7 delivery I have been in contact with Mike at Proel (thanks again EssBrace) who was exceptionally helpful and has very kindly sorted me out with a board. Delivery on Saturday fingers crossed.


Excellent news! Let us know how it goes.

Steve


Received my S7 on Monday (not on Saturday as promised) but very disappointingly was an open-box used item with the front plastic panels covered in scratches and various marks underneath the board.

I have been assured that a brand new unit will be sent out as and when one comes in, although to be honest I have no idea why that wasn't the case in the first place.

It came directly from the UK distributor, not from my retailer, so is all the more worrying. Let's hope it gets sorted soon. Not a good start to my time as a Dexibell user.

Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: napilopez] #2718008
03/01/18 08:43 AM
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Well, you wonder why that was the case? wink There are people who wouldn't be bothered to return the item although it is a display item or won't even notice it. And so they are selling you a floor model for the price of a brand new unit. You don't think they made that by mistake, do you? wink Like they see they have an order in the online system and they pack the floor model while thinking about the theory of relativity and entirely forgot you ordered a brand new item instead laugh

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/01/18 08:44 AM.

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Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: CyberGene] #2718035
03/01/18 10:34 AM
03/01/18 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Well, you wonder why that was the case? wink There are people who wouldn't be bothered to return the item although it is a display item or won't even notice it. And so they are selling you a floor model for the price of a brand new unit. You don't think they made that by mistake, do you? wink Like they see they have an order in the online system and they pack the floor model while thinking about the theory of relativity and entirely forgot you ordered a brand new item instead laugh


Cynical CyberGene!

It's the main importers so I doubt they'd have floor models. I wonder if they've sent a demo model out by mistake? Either way I hope it's sorted for you soon jaybee. Have you had a chance to play it?


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: napilopez] #2718047
03/01/18 11:35 AM
03/01/18 11:35 AM
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Is there a policy about what retailers do with returned items? I've heard that in the US they should either sell them as B-stock items or return them to manufacturers for thorough inspection and repackaging and it is then when retailers can offer the item as "brand new" again. How's that in the EU?


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: CyberGene] #2718061
03/01/18 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Is there a policy about what retailers do with returned items? I've heard that in the US they should either sell them as B-stock items or return them to manufacturers for thorough inspection and repackaging and it is then when retailers can offer the item as "brand new" again. How's that in the EU?


hahaha

Stores are the same in the US and EU. From a practical perspective, stores do whatever they like with returned items. Sell them as new, sell them as B-Stock, trash them, send them to a discount outlet, etc. . .

Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: EssBrace] #2718301
03/02/18 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Well, you wonder why that was the case? wink There are people who wouldn't be bothered to return the item although it is a display item or won't even notice it. And so they are selling you a floor model for the price of a brand new unit. You don't think they made that by mistake, do you? wink Like they see they have an order in the online system and they pack the floor model while thinking about the theory of relativity and entirely forgot you ordered a brand new item instead laugh


Cynical CyberGene!

It's the main importers so I doubt they'd have floor models. I wonder if they've sent a demo model out by mistake? Either way I hope it's sorted for you soon jaybee. Have you had a chance to play it?


I have indeed been playing it nevertheless. First impressions - great! Fatar action much nicer, smoother than anticipated; seems to me as if Dexibell may have worked on it themselves. Fast single note repetitions are easy, faux ivory keys pleasant to the touch. It is not a silent action by any means but I have not found that too loud to be distracting.

Biggest observation for me overall is that you can feel a real "connection" to the instrument when you play in a way that I haven't found on the bog-standard similarly priced boards I have fiddled with over the last few weeks - Kawais, Yamahas, Rolands.

Nord I reckon provide something similar, better as an overall package (although being Nord, at twice the price.) The Nord sounds I would say are more impressive out of the box. Dexis sound different rather than obviously worse, less rounded maybe, less full and rich also, but not far behind. Pianoman Chuck has a good vid comparing stock sounds side by side and that pretty much sums it up. I have yet to delve into the personalisation. The damper pedal "fizz" is cool although a little loud for my liking and could do with subduing.

The board appears well built, light-ish considering the size. The plastic covers on the front panels do seem soft (the ones that are scratched on my ex-demo or whatever model) and they will no doubt start to look shabby at some point if that is something that would bother you.

Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: jaybee12] #2718378
03/02/18 12:16 PM
03/02/18 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jaybee12
Fatar action much nicer, smoother than anticipated; seems to me as if Dexibell may have worked on it themselves. Fast single note repetitions are easy, faux ivory keys pleasant to the touch. It is not a silent action by any means but I have not found that too loud to be distracting.

Biggest observation for me overall is that you can feel a real "connection" to the instrument when you play in a way that I haven't found on the bog-standard similarly priced boards I have fiddled with over the last few weeks - Kawais, Yamahas, Rolands.

Nord I reckon provide something similar, better as an overall package (although being Nord, at twice the price.) The Nord sounds I would say are more impressive out of the box. Dexis sound different rather than obviously worse...

The damper pedal "fizz" is cool although a little loud for my liking and could do with subduing.

The board appears well built, light-ish considering the size. The plastic covers on the front panels do seem soft (the ones that are scratched on my ex-demo or whatever model) and they will no doubt start to look shabby at some point if that is something that would bother you.


I think we're pretty much in agreement about most of this.

I have owned Nord and I played one a couple of times quite recently (Nord Piano 3). The actions subjectively feel the same to me (which in theory they are). What I did find with Nord piano sounds (which I love very much) was that sometimes the dynamics seemed perhaps almost exaggerated, which I did not remember from my ownership of Nord Piano 1. Dexibell has got the player connection issue quite well sorted (for me anyway).

I don't feel the Dexibell is in any way inferior to Nord for build quality or the main piano sounds but Nord does offer such a broad palette of characterful sounds they are still so hard to beat (at twice the price, as you say).

The Dexi's pedal sound can be dialled up or down. I have two sets of end panels. The basic set was black and I have already sprayed those twice, first white, now red. They take basic acrylic spray paint exceptionally well. I also bought a set of blue end panels from Mike Roisetter. I think the change of look with different coloured end cheeks is a nice feature.


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: EssBrace] #2718555
03/03/18 05:20 AM
03/03/18 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by jaybee12
Fatar action much nicer, smoother than anticipated; seems to me as if Dexibell may have worked on it themselves. Fast single note repetitions are easy, faux ivory keys pleasant to the touch. It is not a silent action by any means but I have not found that too loud to be distracting.

Biggest observation for me overall is that you can feel a real "connection" to the instrument when you play in a way that I haven't found on the bog-standard similarly priced boards I have fiddled with over the last few weeks - Kawais, Yamahas, Rolands.

Nord I reckon provide something similar, better as an overall package (although being Nord, at twice the price.) The Nord sounds I would say are more impressive out of the box. Dexis sound different rather than obviously worse...

The damper pedal "fizz" is cool although a little loud for my liking and could do with subduing.

The board appears well built, light-ish considering the size. The plastic covers on the front panels do seem soft (the ones that are scratched on my ex-demo or whatever model) and they will no doubt start to look shabby at some point if that is something that would bother you.


I think we're pretty much in agreement about most of this.

I have owned Nord and I played one a couple of times quite recently (Nord Piano 3). The actions subjectively feel the same to me (which in theory they are). What I did find with Nord piano sounds (which I love very much) was that sometimes the dynamics seemed perhaps almost exaggerated, which I did not remember from my ownership of Nord Piano 1. Dexibell has got the player connection issue quite well sorted (for me anyway).

I don't feel the Dexibell is in any way inferior to Nord for build quality or the main piano sounds but Nord does offer such a broad palette of characterful sounds they are still so hard to beat (at twice the price, as you say).

The Dexi's pedal sound can be dialled up or down. I have two sets of end panels. The basic set was black and I have already sprayed those twice, first white, now red. They take basic acrylic spray paint exceptionally well. I also bought a set of blue end panels from Mike Roisetter. I think the change of look with different coloured end cheeks is a nice feature.



Any advice on monitors/speakers/amps?

I have been playing through headphones up until yesterday. Switching to an old pair of monitors has transformed the sound - not in a good way.

The mid range seems muddy, artificial, 10 times more unrealistic than my very old kurzweil through the same speakers. Nothing like even the youtube vids through tinny laptop speakers. Even spoiled going back to headphones now that i can hear (or so i think now) the weaknesses. I've had a fiddle with the controls but no joy so far

Help!!

Re: Dexibell Vivo S9 has new wooden action and motorized sliders [Re: jaybee12] #2718752
03/04/18 06:08 AM
03/04/18 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jaybee12
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by jaybee12
Fatar action much nicer, smoother than anticipated; seems to me as if Dexibell may have worked on it themselves. Fast single note repetitions are easy, faux ivory keys pleasant to the touch. It is not a silent action by any means but I have not found that too loud to be distracting.

Biggest observation for me overall is that you can feel a real "connection" to the instrument when you play in a way that I haven't found on the bog-standard similarly priced boards I have fiddled with over the last few weeks - Kawais, Yamahas, Rolands.

Nord I reckon provide something similar, better as an overall package (although being Nord, at twice the price.) The Nord sounds I would say are more impressive out of the box. Dexis sound different rather than obviously worse...

The damper pedal "fizz" is cool although a little loud for my liking and could do with subduing.

The board appears well built, light-ish considering the size. The plastic covers on the front panels do seem soft (the ones that are scratched on my ex-demo or whatever model) and they will no doubt start to look shabby at some point if that is something that would bother you.


I think we're pretty much in agreement about most of this.

I have owned Nord and I played one a couple of times quite recently (Nord Piano 3). The actions subjectively feel the same to me (which in theory they are). What I did find with Nord piano sounds (which I love very much) was that sometimes the dynamics seemed perhaps almost exaggerated, which I did not remember from my ownership of Nord Piano 1. Dexibell has got the player connection issue quite well sorted (for me anyway).

I don't feel the Dexibell is in any way inferior to Nord for build quality or the main piano sounds but Nord does offer such a broad palette of characterful sounds they are still so hard to beat (at twice the price, as you say).

The Dexi's pedal sound can be dialled up or down. I have two sets of end panels. The basic set was black and I have already sprayed those twice, first white, now red. They take basic acrylic spray paint exceptionally well. I also bought a set of blue end panels from Mike Roisetter. I think the change of look with different coloured end cheeks is a nice feature.



Any advice on monitors/speakers/amps?

I have been playing through headphones up until yesterday. Switching to an old pair of monitors has transformed the sound - not in a good way.

The mid range seems muddy, artificial, 10 times more unrealistic than my very old kurzweil through the same speakers. Nothing like even the youtube vids through tinny laptop speakers. Even spoiled going back to headphones now that i can hear (or so i think now) the weaknesses. I've had a fiddle with the controls but no joy so far

Help!!



EssBrace - by soft plastic on the front panel i was perhaps not very clear. I was referring to the clear plastic panels surrounding all the buttons and knobs. On my unit they looked as if someone had wiped or tried to polish them with a rough or abrasive cloth

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