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Originally Posted by QuinGold
So sorry to hear about your recent loss.


Originally Posted by Morodiene
Sorry to hear of your mother passing. frown


Thank you so much, I appreciate that. It was about 7 weeks ago now, both myself and my family feel like we've been dragged through a meat grinder emotionally. My Mum was a great piano fan, and played herself, although not so much in recent years. Her and I had much the same tastes, piano-wise. I will be dedicating my new purchase to her. I've often thought about playing again throughout the years but never really got round to it, and I wish I'd started while she was still alive, but there you go. Better late than never, I guess.

Originally Posted by JoBert

There is no such thing as a digital piano with a first-rate action, but with only a few very good piano voices (unless you count the Kawai VPC-1 which is a pure MIDI controller without any voices.... etc.


Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

But one possibility has extra weight:

If you already have a good set of loudspeakers, and a reasonably fast computer, and you're comfortable with wires and software, the "VPC-1 plus software piano" starts to look appealing.


Originally Posted by Granyala
If you're already used to running a DAW and have a capable computer I wouldn't look further than the VPC1.


(And a few other quotes that mentioned the VPC-1)

Now - although this was originally introduced in to the equation as an "alternative" or wildcard type solution, this has really got my attention now. I've been really researching over the last couple of days and catching up a bit. I've been reading articles and watching videos on it.

This VPC1 is a thing of beauty, no? And I kind of quite like the idea of doing things separately myself, like buying the keyboard, then buying the software and building a kind of "custom package".This could be just the ticket, I love the look of it. I could get the "Galaxy" software pretty cheap, or I could get the Pianoteq pretty cheap too. If I wanted to spash out, I could get the Ivory II.

On the other hand, a very strong contender seems to be the ES8 as was originally mentioned. The keyboard action being as near as dammit to the VPC1, just the next stage down from it. But inbuilt sounds, speakers etc. All in all a beautiful and great quality unit, from what I can gather.

So - I would say at this stage that with the help of the advice from you guys, I have kind of roughly narrowed my choice down to a VPC1 vs an ES8. Both work out at around £1300, the VPC1 plus software, or the ES8. Musn't forget to chuck in an extra 75 quid for a stand. So let's call it £1400. Well, that it is considerably above my original budget, but I consider that the instrument that one gets for the money with these two is enough to see through to a respectable level and satisfy the needs. I really can't stretch to the MPII (?) with the even more improved keyboard than the VPC1, as it is above two grand. Now we really are out of the ballpark with that one.

I will have to raid the piggy bank, or perhaps work out some finance with a shop, or borrow some money, whatever, but I think this price range seems to be about the sweet spot. When I originally mentioned £500, I thought I'd give it a try to see whether I could get away with that, but I figure there is more value to be had at around the 1400 price range for the money, from what I can see.

Time to get into a shop when this snow stops, or when I can manage it, and try both of these out. I will try some other ones as well, but I get a feeling about Kawai.

Originally Posted by QuinGold

I just hope no one expects me to launch into Rachmaninoff just yet...!


We'll give you until next week, and then we expect some preludes!

Originally Posted by QuinGold
And hopefully it will allow me to get back to where I used to be when I was a teenager (I gave up at RIAM Grade 7 when the evils of rock 'n' roll lured me away from classical...).


Christ, what a coincidence. I stopped playing piano at about 16 or 17, after having got grade 7. I was then lured away from classical by the evils of Rock and Roll. The Rachmaninoff thing too - seems like we have a few things in common.

I could talk all day about rock and roll, especially in recent years, I developed a heavy fetish for vintage rock and roll, 50's and 60's stuff, surf, voodoo, trash, love it. But a lot of types really. Last year I saw The Fratellis live in the middle of summer at a small outdoor festival. What a great evening that was.

I have been known to tinker with the guitar, I have a bottom of the line Gretsch hollowbody, and I also play (albeit badly) slap rockabilly bass, on an upright. The guitar I got proficient on, but I don't know, it's been really on and off. I used to play the violin, so the upright bass is a weird return to that. It's just grown a bit!

Hope to catch up with you on some rock and roll related things at some point on the forum.

Anyway, sorry about the long post, only just managed to catch up with this.












Last edited by Zaphod; 03/02/18 10:03 PM.
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So - I would say at this stage that with the help of the advice from you guys, I have kind of roughly narrowed my choice down to a VPC1 vs an ES8. Both work out at around £1300, the VPC1 plus software, or the ES8. Musn't forget to chuck in an extra 75 quid for a stand. So let's call it £1400. Well, that it is considerably above my original budget, but I consider that the instrument that one gets for the money with these two is enough to see through to a respectable level and satisfy the needs. I really can't stretch to the MPII (?) with the even more improved keyboard than the VPC1, as it is above two grand. Now we really are out of the ballpark with that one.

I will have to raid the piggy bank, or perhaps work out some finance with a shop, or borrow some money, whatever, but I think this price range seems to be about the sweet spot. When I originally mentioned £500, I thought I'd give it a try to see whether I could get away with that, but I figure there is more value to be had at around the 1400 price range for the money, from what I can see.

Time to get into a shop when this snow stops, or when I can manage it, and try both of these out. I will try some other ones as well, but I get a feeling about Kawai.


I think you'll figure out why those suggestions came up, when you find some DP's to experiment with. I suggest bringing your own headphones. Have fun!

EDIT -- don't forget to try an FP-90, if you run across it. Modelled sound engine, and not-bad action.

Last edited by Charles Cohen; 03/02/18 11:06 PM.

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+1 for the fp90. I actually prefer the pha50 action to both the vpc1 and es8 and there are others who feel the same. So the best thing to do is to thoroughly test all the options yourself to see what you like best.

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Originally Posted by Zaphod
Time to get into a shop when this snow stops, or when I can manage it, and try both of these out. I will try some other ones as well, but I get a feeling about Kawai.

In the case of the ES-8, that will be easy.
VPC-1 however is pretty difficult to find. You can approximate it by playing any of the grand feel actions though. Personally, I cannot feel a difference between them but I am a beginner.

ES8 and MP7 have a great action, very fun to play and definitely lighter than the Grand feels, but the key rebound noise was a turnoff for me. Once I sat down on a CA-97/78, I wanted one of those super quiet wood actions. laugh


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
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Zaphod, check for a PM

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The VPC1 has a much superior action to the ES8, but maybe I missed it, but you haven't factored in Speakers or Headphones in your budget.... You need some decent speakers to outperform the ES8, definitely not pc speakers... A good value for money would be the Eris E5. I don't know if you need headphones, but if you do, will you be using them often or only every now and then? Or maybe you already have some decent cans? And finally if I can suggest a virtual piano for classical music, it would be the Ivory II American.


Roland FP-4F, Korg Kross 61, iRig Keys Pro, HD58X, HD598, Focal Spirit Pro, RME Babyface, M-Track Plus, Roland DuoCapture, Presonus Eris E5, iLoud micro monitors, M1 Mac mini, iPad Pro, HP Elite X2, Ivory II ACD, Korg Module for iPad, Garritan CFX full, Vienna Imperial, Ravenscroft, Kawai-Ex Pro
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My vote is for the MP11SE. Spectacular action that is as close it gets to a full acoustic piano action outside of the hybrids, and quite frankly is a nicer feeling action than the NU1X. Plus the sound engine is superb. I may be a bit biased tho wink


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No need for fancy stuff. Even the Casio CDP-130 may work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlZxtz8umXY

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Originally Posted by PianoZac
My vote is for the MP11SE. Spectacular action that is as close it gets to a full acoustic piano action outside of the hybrids, and quite frankly is a nicer feeling action than the NU1X. Plus the sound engine is superb. I may be a bit biased tho wink


We are all biased... I for instance much prefer the heavier action on the VPC1 to the lighter one (too light for me) on the MP11, but I may be influenced by the action on my baby grand...


Roland FP-4F, Korg Kross 61, iRig Keys Pro, HD58X, HD598, Focal Spirit Pro, RME Babyface, M-Track Plus, Roland DuoCapture, Presonus Eris E5, iLoud micro monitors, M1 Mac mini, iPad Pro, HP Elite X2, Ivory II ACD, Korg Module for iPad, Garritan CFX full, Vienna Imperial, Ravenscroft, Kawai-Ex Pro
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
My vote is for the MP11SE. Spectacular action that is as close it gets to a full acoustic piano action outside of the hybrids, and quite frankly is a nicer feeling action than the NU1X. Plus the sound engine is superb. I may be a bit biased tho wink

He already stated that the MP 11-SE is way out of his budget. laugh


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Originally Posted by Digitalguy
The VPC1 has a much superior action to the ES8, but maybe I missed it, but you haven't factored in Speakers or Headphones in your budget.... You need some decent speakers to outperform the ES8, definitely not pc speakers...


From my interest in electronic music (I won't bore you with that now), I have a Focusrite Scarlett audio interface, and also a pair of M-Audio BX5 studio monitors, which are cheap but definitely great quality sound-wise, I also have the Sony MDR V700 headphones, which are a tiny bit knackered, but still work ok. If I have to replace them, it will be something I'll do anyway, as I also use them for mixing (dj'ing). Probably pick up some Sennhieser HD25's if I ver had to replace them, however, I am milking every last bit of life that I can out of them. The problem is I noticed the cable outer coating had stripped, I've put some tape over it, but I've been here before. At some point it's going to shear. But anyway. Headphones not a problem.

I also have Propellerheads Reason 8 which has just about everything anyone would need from a DAW in my opinion (even though it's on 10 now or something).

Originally Posted by Granyala

Yeah you're right, that model is out of my budget, unfortunately.


It will take me about an hour and a half drive to go and see the VPC1 at the nearest stockist, I can't find it anywhere else. Bit of a pain in the arse. Or "ass" for all my overseas friends. This is most inconvenient. I always do this when I buy stuff, I end up wanting the particular model that's hard to locate, or not in stock etc.

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Originally Posted by Zaphod
It will take me about an hour and a half drive to go and see the VPC1 at the nearest stockist, I can't find it anywhere else. Bit of a pain in the arse. Or "ass" for all my overseas friends. This is most inconvenient. I always do this when I buy stuff, I end up wanting the particular model that's hard to locate, or not in stock etc.


Yes, the VPC1 can be a bit of a pain in the arse little difficult to play-test, due to the nature of the product.

However, if you are able to find a Kawai CA17, this model has the same keyboard action as the VPC1, so should feel identical. The CA17 was succeeded by the CA48 towards the end of last year, but you may still be able to find some Kawai dealers with inventory remaining, and those stores may be located in a more convenient location than the dealer with the VPC1.

Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
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