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Winter wind fingering #2717736
02/28/18 11:45 AM
02/28/18 11:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 35
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asb37 Offline OP
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For those that have played the winter wind etude, what is your preferred fingering for the notes marked in red in the attached images (measures 5 and 23)?

This is the national edition. Chopin's fingering are shown in bold closer to the notes, and the editor's fingering is shown in smaller italic font.

Measure 5
35 45 (chopin's fingering)
OR
43 43 (editor)

Measure 23
54 54 35 45 (chopin)
OR
43 54 43 43 (editor)

I find doing 3-5 slighting awkward as the fifth finger has to pass under the 3rd. 4-3 is less awkward but involves more of a stretch. Both seem to work decently well at faster tempos.

The editor does this several times in this edition, changing 3-5 and 5-4 to 4-3.

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqpt9eqxeo0e0co/5.jpg?dl=0[/img]

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ri4tx4rie6mg6du/23.jpg?dl=0[/img]

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Re: Winter wind fingering [Re: asb37] #2717737
02/28/18 11:48 AM
02/28/18 11:48 AM
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asb37 Offline OP
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Not sure why the images aren't displaying. The links should work though.

Re: Winter wind fingering [Re: asb37] #2717740
02/28/18 11:56 AM
02/28/18 11:56 AM
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BruceD Offline
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Originally Posted by asb37
[...]
I find doing 3-5 slighting awkward as the fifth finger has to pass under the 3rd. 4-3 is less awkward but involves more of a stretch. Both seem to work decently well at faster tempos.

The editor does this several times in this edition, changing 3-5 and 5-4 to 4-3.

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqpt9eqxeo0e0co/5.jpg?dl=0[/img]

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ri4tx4rie6mg6du/23.jpg?dl=0[/img]


I don't think - in fact I am quite sure - that this is not a suggestion to change fingers on these notes. At performance tempo it would be futile to even try and nigh impossible to execute. I think these fingerings are alternative suggestions: either/or, whichever suits your hand better. In the second example, the finger numbers in italics are Chopin's; the others are the editor's.

Traditionally, a change of finger on a given note has the two numbers, side by side, linked with a slur; this is not the case in these examples where one fingering is indicated above the other.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Winter wind fingering [Re: BruceD] #2717763
02/28/18 01:37 PM
02/28/18 01:37 PM
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Mark_C Offline
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(It doesn't look like he was talking about changing fingers on notes.)

Re: Winter wind fingering [Re: BruceD] #2717764
02/28/18 01:41 PM
02/28/18 01:41 PM
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asb37 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BruceD
[quote=asb37][...]
I don't think - in fact I am quite sure - that this is not a suggestion to change fingers on these notes. At performance tempo it would be futile to even try and nigh impossible to execute. I think these fingerings are alternative suggestions: either/or, whichever suits your hand better. In the second example, the finger numbers in italics are Chopin's; the others are the editor's.

Traditionally, a change of finger on a given note has the two numbers, side by side, linked with a slur; this is not the case in these examples where one fingering is indicated above the other.

Regards,


I am not talking about changing fingers on the notes, just regular fingering. I understand the notation for fingering and changing fingers. Sorry that wasn't clear.

The numbers in italics are the editor's fingering, and the bold are Chopin's, per the commentary at the end of the book.



Last edited by asb37; 02/28/18 01:44 PM.
Re: Winter wind fingering [Re: asb37] #2717768
02/28/18 02:17 PM
02/28/18 02:17 PM
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Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Apologies for mis-reading your post. In this case, I think you have to use the fingering that works best for you, since the editor(s) have given you a choice.

I am not sure, however, that it really involves "...the fifth finger has to pass under the 3rd..." unless you are trying to play this passage very legato. At performance tempo I don't think one would be making an effort at "finger legato", although Cortot suggests keeping the fingers close to the keys. With the third finger on D-sharp and then the fifth finger on D, you have the intervening C-sharp to give you time to get the fifth finger in place for the D.

In other words, I would use the lower notes as "anchor" and keep fingers 5, 4, and 3, fairly free and ready to play the upper notes but without holding on to them in strict legato fashion.

Cortot points out that these sextolets are three groups of two and not two groups of three. This means that one could, in practice, play each of the two notes as a two-note chord to get used to Chopin's suggested fingering.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Winter wind fingering [Re: asb37] #2717882
02/28/18 10:21 PM
02/28/18 10:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 243
Bellevue, WA
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benjamink Offline
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Bellevue, WA
When I learned and performed this piece a long time ago, I used the fingerings:
Measure 5
43 43 (editor)

Measure 23
43 54 43 43 (editor)

I'm pretty sure these are identical to the Paderewski edition (the edition I used), though I'd need to check to be certain. I also tried Chopin's original fingering as indicated, but found the editor's fingering to be more natural for me at the required tempo.


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