2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
65 members (deanhodge, chopinetto, accordeur, CyberGene, danielp11, 10 invisible), 546 guests, and 334 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Winter wind fingering
#2717736 02/28/18 11:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 35
A
asb37 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 35
For those that have played the winter wind etude, what is your preferred fingering for the notes marked in red in the attached images (measures 5 and 23)?

This is the national edition. Chopin's fingering are shown in bold closer to the notes, and the editor's fingering is shown in smaller italic font.

Measure 5
35 45 (chopin's fingering)
OR
43 43 (editor)

Measure 23
54 54 35 45 (chopin)
OR
43 54 43 43 (editor)

I find doing 3-5 slighting awkward as the fifth finger has to pass under the 3rd. 4-3 is less awkward but involves more of a stretch. Both seem to work decently well at faster tempos.

The editor does this several times in this edition, changing 3-5 and 5-4 to 4-3.

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqpt9eqxeo0e0co/5.jpg?dl=0[/img]

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ri4tx4rie6mg6du/23.jpg?dl=0[/img]

Re: Winter wind fingering
asb37 #2717737 02/28/18 11:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 35
A
asb37 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Not sure why the images aren't displaying. The links should work though.

Re: Winter wind fingering
asb37 #2717740 02/28/18 11:56 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,007
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,007
Originally Posted by asb37
[...]
I find doing 3-5 slighting awkward as the fifth finger has to pass under the 3rd. 4-3 is less awkward but involves more of a stretch. Both seem to work decently well at faster tempos.

The editor does this several times in this edition, changing 3-5 and 5-4 to 4-3.

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqpt9eqxeo0e0co/5.jpg?dl=0[/img]

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ri4tx4rie6mg6du/23.jpg?dl=0[/img]


I don't think - in fact I am quite sure - that this is not a suggestion to change fingers on these notes. At performance tempo it would be futile to even try and nigh impossible to execute. I think these fingerings are alternative suggestions: either/or, whichever suits your hand better. In the second example, the finger numbers in italics are Chopin's; the others are the editor's.

Traditionally, a change of finger on a given note has the two numbers, side by side, linked with a slur; this is not the case in these examples where one fingering is indicated above the other.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Winter wind fingering
BruceD #2717763 02/28/18 01:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,798
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,798
(It doesn't look like he was talking about changing fingers on notes.)

Re: Winter wind fingering
BruceD #2717764 02/28/18 01:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 35
A
asb37 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by BruceD
[quote=asb37][...]
I don't think - in fact I am quite sure - that this is not a suggestion to change fingers on these notes. At performance tempo it would be futile to even try and nigh impossible to execute. I think these fingerings are alternative suggestions: either/or, whichever suits your hand better. In the second example, the finger numbers in italics are Chopin's; the others are the editor's.

Traditionally, a change of finger on a given note has the two numbers, side by side, linked with a slur; this is not the case in these examples where one fingering is indicated above the other.

Regards,


I am not talking about changing fingers on the notes, just regular fingering. I understand the notation for fingering and changing fingers. Sorry that wasn't clear.

The numbers in italics are the editor's fingering, and the bold are Chopin's, per the commentary at the end of the book.



Last edited by asb37; 02/28/18 01:44 PM.
Re: Winter wind fingering
asb37 #2717768 02/28/18 02:17 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,007
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,007
Apologies for mis-reading your post. In this case, I think you have to use the fingering that works best for you, since the editor(s) have given you a choice.

I am not sure, however, that it really involves "...the fifth finger has to pass under the 3rd..." unless you are trying to play this passage very legato. At performance tempo I don't think one would be making an effort at "finger legato", although Cortot suggests keeping the fingers close to the keys. With the third finger on D-sharp and then the fifth finger on D, you have the intervening C-sharp to give you time to get the fifth finger in place for the D.

In other words, I would use the lower notes as "anchor" and keep fingers 5, 4, and 3, fairly free and ready to play the upper notes but without holding on to them in strict legato fashion.

Cortot points out that these sextolets are three groups of two and not two groups of three. This means that one could, in practice, play each of the two notes as a two-note chord to get used to Chopin's suggested fingering.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Winter wind fingering
asb37 #2717882 02/28/18 10:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 260
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 260
When I learned and performed this piece a long time ago, I used the fingerings:
Measure 5
43 43 (editor)

Measure 23
43 54 43 43 (editor)

I'm pretty sure these are identical to the Paderewski edition (the edition I used), though I'd need to check to be certain. I also tried Chopin's original fingering as indicated, but found the editor's fingering to be more natural for me at the required tempo.


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
James compares the ES110 to ES8
by rintincop - 07/05/20 03:21 PM
Alternate fingerings for scales
by pianosuzemn - 07/05/20 02:38 PM
Digital piano blind test
by joemama42O - 07/05/20 02:26 PM
How Does Escapement Make it Easier To Play Softer?
by deanhodge - 07/05/20 01:54 PM
Practice with MIDI-based orchestration
by kimby - 07/05/20 12:35 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,044
Posts2,977,154
Members97,667
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4