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Gosh- I love it. I have the CS10 and like it a lot. May I kindly ask what the distance is from back to front? TIA

EDIT: I edited my description below to incorporate Kawai James' info about the overdub function.

There are still ways to make a recording, you just have to know how. And yes, unfortunately with the pianist mode it is a bit more complicated than it used to be with the CA97/67 and CS11/8 (although the sound mode is about the same as before).

(Note: These issues are not specific to the NV10, they are also shared by the CA98/78. I should also note that this applies to the software version 1.0.2. This may be changed in a future software update.)

First of all, the internal recorder works differently for pianist mode and sound mode:

In pianist mode, the internal recorder is relatively useless. It only allows three different records at a time, and it records internally in an unknown format (but judging from the specs that say "max ~10min per recording", my guess is that it records an audio format). Unfortunately, there is no way to later transfer one of these three recordings to a USB stick, which, in my eyes, makes the internal recorder in pianist mode relatively useless. The only way to get this recording "out" of the piano is to make the piano play it, and record the result via line-out*.

In sound mode, the internal recorder allows up to 10 records (with 2 parts each), and it records in MIDI format (max ~90,000 notes per recording). This MIDI recording can later be transferred to a USB stick (in MIDI format either in standard SMF or in Kawai's own KSO format, or, using the overdub function, also as MP3 or WAV).

For recording audio files (MP3 or WAV) directly, the USB Audio recorder is much more useful. This external recorder is only available if a USB stick is plugged in. Then, when you select the "Recorder" option, you have the choice between "Internal Recorder" and "USB Audio Recorder". If you select the latter, the recording will be stored directly on the USB stick. You then also have the choice between MP3 and WAV (via the three-lines menu icon in the top right corner), but unfortunately no MIDI format. This USB audio recorder is available both in pianist and sound mode.

So to summarize:

• Pianist Mode, Internal Recorder: Recording cannot be saved/exported from the piano, except by recording the line-out signal.
• Sound Mode, Internal Recorder: Recording can be exported to USB, in MIDI format or MP3/WAV.
• Pianist & Sound Mode, USB Recorder: Recording happens directly on USB stick, either in MP3 or WAV format.

You should still be able to do what you wanted, i.e. to "keep recording until you are satisfied" (if a MP3/WAV recording is what you wanted - it is more complicated if you wanted MIDI while playing in pianist mode, see below). The best option, IMO, is if you plug in a USB stick and select the USB recorder, which gives you a MP3/WAV file right away. Alternatively, you can continue to use the internal recorder and, if you are satisfied, make the piano play back that recording while at the same time recording it. In pianist mode you would have to record the line-out signal* with a recording device (that in turn records in the desired MP3/WAV format), in sound mode you can use the overdub function to record it directly to a USB stick.

In addition to the weakness of the internal recorder in pianist mode, the pianist mode has one more hole: There is no way to record in MIDI format.

For this, there is fortunately a workaround, if you have a PC (or similar device) with the necessary MIDI software: Connect a PC via MIDI, with a MIDI software that allows recording in MIDI format. Start a recording with that software, then start playing on the piano (in pianist mode - of course you could also do this in sound mode, but in that mode, a recording with a PC is not really necessary, as the internal recorder of the piano already allows you to record in MIDI format, and also allows you to export that recording).

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*: A footnote about using the internal recorder in pianist mode and then converting this into MP3/WAV by making the piano play back the recording and capturing the line-out signal: Although this is not stated explicitly in the manual, from the description it seems obvious that the internal recorder uses an audio format, and it stands to reason that this is a compressed format and not a lossless format. Which means that if you play back that recording to capture the line-out signal, that signal will already be the result of one additional level of lossy compression. Although this is speculation on my part and could be incorrect (i.e. that the internal recorder uses a lossless format after all). But in any case, with this method you always have the additional quality loss that you get as a result of the "quality" (or lack thereof) of your line-out cable and recording device, compared to having the piano save the WAV data right away, without any loss of quality.

Hello JoBert,

Thank you for your detailed post.

Please refer to my previous post (which was edited perhaps before you wrote your reply to TomLC) in which I explain how the Overdub function (in the Record Playback function of the Music menu) can be used to 'convert' an song recorded to internal memory in Sound mode to an MP3/WAV audio file.

Note that the Overdub function is not explained in the original CA98/CA78/NV10 owner's manual, as this feature was added with a software update (v1.0.1, I believe...).

Kind regards,
James
x

Thanks for the info, that is a welcome change to the software (which had indeed escaped my notice). I have edited my post above accordingly.

Terry, It is 25 1/2 inches from front to back. About 4 inches more than your CS10, I believe. I had the CS11 and for the sound board to function optimally, I placed it 3-4 inches away from the wall. There is no soundboard on the NV10, so I placed it almost touching the wall. So, basically, the difference is not noticeable. Is it available in Columbia?

[quote=Kawai James]
Note that the Overdub function is not explained in the original CA98/CA78/NV10 owner's manual, as this feature was added with a software update (v1.0.1, I believe...).

Thank you, James, JoBert. I found the options you mentioned under the Music menu. I appreciate your help. I think I will just keep a USB drive plugged in all of the time. Just need to be sure it is selected if recording a song. The internal recorder is handy to hear back a lick or phase I am practicing.

Do any of you know a dealer that will allow me to simply order over the phone? My local dealers don't seem to know much, nor were they even willing to discuss price over the phone (could be Kawai policy, IDK).

Following up on the pedal discussion, I had a chance to crawl under a grand today (how many people who don't own one have actually done this, I wonder) and I was immediately struck by how similar the pedal mechanism was to that in the Novus. I mean, why wouldn't it be, it performs the same function? But it's just something I hadn't seen before, and made me really appreciate even more how true Kawai has stayed to acoustic piano design even where the mechanism is entirely hidden from view of the player.

First, JoBert's excellent image of the damper mechanism within the NV10:

Notice the wooden lever arm (2), the return spring and the wooden peg that travels through the bottom of the chassis to push up the action's damper rail (4), the leather pad above the rod capstan (3), and the bent-arm screw holding the lever up (between 2 and 4). When I first saw this, I thought it was an odd setup with weird mechanical allowances, and hy were all these intricate machined forms carved from wood? Why not metal/composite?

Now, here's what I saw under a pretty large grand:



Clearly it's not identical, but the degree to which the mechanism is the same, to me at least, was striking. The rod terminates in a capstan pushing on a leather pad. The pad cushions a wooden lever arm that pushes a wooden peg up to the action's damper rail. It has the same return spring, and the same bent-arm screw design to limit the travel of the lever.

So, I just thought that was "mildly interesting." And seeing the acoustic grand mechanism really answered a lot of questions I had as to why Kawai designed its damper the way it did.

Very interesting pictures! Of course everything has more space, is "straighter" and larger, and the capstans on the rods are much more accessible for regulation on the grand than the NV10, but you can see that both have the same "genes", and keeping in mind the space constraints in the comparably small body of the NV10, those differences are not surprising.

Can’t deny I’m a little envious of all of you NV10 owners. Can’t imagine what the experience must be like to have an authentic GX series grand action mated to the exceptional Kawai DP Sound engine in a beautiful package. Congrats to all of you.

This is one of the best threads I've read on PW. Thanks everyone (obviously JoBert and Gombessa deserve special call outs) for all your hard work and investigation! This is the kind of stuff that keeps me coming

+1

Nice job guys!

Only slightly on topic: I just saw a classified ad in ebay-kleinanzeigen (=German equivalent to Craigslist, CL itself is irrelevant in Germany), where someone sells his new NV10, still in the original box. According to the ad, she(?) ordered it months ago, but when delivery was delayed again and again, she bought something different.
The kicker: The asking price is 8700€. Either that is deliberately high to give the buyer room to negotiate downwards, or it is simply too high. It's just 300€ below current street price, which then includes the 5 year warranty from Kawai (which this supposedly-new-but-still-second-hand piano does not)...

Huh. stateside, you can always cancel without penalty prior to the product shipping (unless it is a custom work created specifically for the buyer). I suspect the same applies across Europe, meaning the buyer just "forgot" about $10k. Must be nice to be able to do that

Exactly. I have a hard time imagining a piano dealer who would not be willing to cancel such an order before delivery (especially if delivery was delayed several times). Seems strange. Maybe it's not the whole story?

Or it's just some kind of the usual scams and there is no piano at all.

Good to see that Kawai has reached Australia.

If you right click that image and View Image, it will appear right side up ... or at least it does on my setup.

I'd be surprised if Germany didn't already have something in place like that but the right to cancel orders has been covered by EU wide directives on distance selling since at least the late 90s. Not only that but you can send back goods bought unseen for any reason for a full refund inc basic delivery charge. The EU minimum was 7 days from receipt of the goods but this was increased to 14 days a couple of years ago, though quite a few member states were already at 14 days anyway.

Seems rather suspicious!

Obviously there's some exceptions like goods made to order, perishables and software/digital goods.

I don't want to get into conspiracy theories and all that, it could very well be that the buyer is on the nonconfrontational side and isn't aware of MOTO rules or doesn't want to bother with them. But clearly this is a case of caveat emptor. Is 300eur worth the risk on a 9000eur purchase? Here's hoping the potential buyers here are savvy.