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Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2715696
02/19/18 02:53 PM
02/19/18 02:53 PM
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Vadesriux Offline OP
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What defect did you find on your MP7SE Granyala? May I ask?

And why did you not asked the shop for a new MP7SE?


Eduardo
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Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2715725
02/19/18 04:31 PM
02/19/18 04:31 PM
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PianoZac Offline
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Is there an issue with the RHIII key bed or design, or in Kawai’s QC for the ES8/MP7SE? I have read now 5 users (here and users I follow on YouTube) who have exchanged ES8s or MP7SEs for faulty keys, noises, or other QC issues. I’m personally a huge Kawai fan, acoustically and in their digital instruments and honestly believe they have developed industry leading sample sets for their SK sample sets and their GF/GFII key actions so it’s a little disheartening to read about the same issues with multiple users.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2715730
02/19/18 04:48 PM
02/19/18 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Vadesriux
What defect did you find on your MP7SE Granyala? May I ask?
OT sidestory:
And why did you not asked the shop for a new MP7SE?

3 black keys were stuck on the first (could not be depressed).
1 black key was stuck on the second.

One is a fluke, 2 is a systematic problem, hence I considered it illogical to order a 3rd. That didn't stop Thomann from going against our agreement to refund me and trying to send a 3rd. I intervened and had it diverted back en route, so it never reached me. Still lost a whole week b/c of that. Sheesh.

At that time I also reassessed and came to the conclusion that I do not need any of the onboard functions, b/c I preferred playing with pianoteq 6. So I ordered a VPC1 from a local dealer. And now I am waiting b/c KAWAI has supply problems *chuckle*. So frustrating, trying to get a working piano since Jan 13th now. >.<

/OT

@PianoZac: Well issues can always happen. In my case, it was definitely transport damage, since the styros inside the box were cracked. So, despite the box looking fine there had to be some force involved.
As far as I can tell: ordering one of these devices via the Internet is Russian roulette. I'dd go for a local dealer if I had the chance.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2715735
02/19/18 05:21 PM
02/19/18 05:21 PM
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Sao Paul, Brazil
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Had one ES8 replaced due to clicks on the most played keys and on occasion, playing a key fff when playing softly. The replacement developed the same symtoms after not too long in my hands.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
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Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Granyala] #2716259
02/21/18 10:07 PM
02/21/18 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Granyala


@PianoZac: Well issues can always happen. In my case, it was definitely transport damage, since the styros inside the box were cracked. So, despite the box looking fine there had to be some force involved.
As far as I can tell: ordering one of these devices via the Internet is Russian roulette. I'dd go for a local dealer if I had the chance.


I have ordered an MP7SE so hoping to have better luck! Not really sure what I’d do instrument wise if the MP7SE doesn’t work out.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716283
02/22/18 12:07 AM
02/22/18 12:07 AM
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Yeah, neither did I.
Eventually I decided to save money and go with a VPC-1. But I am not as attached to the Kawai voices as you are. laugh


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716341
02/22/18 07:55 AM
02/22/18 07:55 AM
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Vadesriux
I have a Yamaha CP4 at home that I will be returning this Monday. The flagship of Yamaha stage pianos action. But I have struggled with the weight of the Graded Hammer action from Yamaha, to the point of giving up, even though the white keys are wooden and all. It just feels too heavy to me when playing the keys, especially when playing faster passages. You get tired really quickly and that is unnatural to me. And even though everyone else praises the feel of the keybed. It only goes to say that YOU are the one who ultimately can figure out if the keyboard is good for you or not.

Can ES8 or MP7SE owners - that have already played the CP4 - comment if the KAWAI RH3 action is lighter / easier (less resistive) to play than the CP4 (Graded Hammer action) ?

Thank you!


I too think that your technique or practice strategy might be the issue for you. I found the CP4 action quite light compared with similarly aged Roland stage pianos (RD800).
There is a thread active at the moment about how to avoid hurting your hands during practice which might provide you with some ideas.

Keyboards and hand problems


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Granyala] #2716364
02/22/18 09:30 AM
02/22/18 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Granyala
Yeah, neither did I.
Eventually I decided to save money and go with a VPC-1. But I am not as attached to the Kawai voices as you are. laugh

Yeah I think if I have repeated issues with the RHIII action, I’ll probably pick up the CP4 since it is a known quantity.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716376
02/22/18 10:35 AM
02/22/18 10:35 AM
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I had the Kawai es7 when it first came out , and had a lot of problems with notes sticking , so returned it and they gave me a new one ,after a few months had the same problems then the mp11 came out and the Kawai dealer gave a great deal trading in the es7 on the mp 11 , he assured me it was a different key action , so now I've had the mp11 for the past four years and have had no problems at all and it is also easier to play. I traded in my nord and and old gx 700 for the Rd 2000 which is a nice keyboard ,the actions nice but not as nice as the Kawai's. I saw on you tube that they are making additional piano sounds from other manufacturers that you'll be able to install on the rd 2000 ,they might be out already. Now I'm waiting on a light weight S3 from dexibell which has 73 keys and an octave shift ,it only weights 22 pounds which is the reason I,m getting it ,to have something light weight to go out to jam with I have an es 100 that I used to jam with but I'm going to trade that in for a pair of decent monitors . For what its worth I've had no issues with the Kawai es 100 and its still in perfect condition .

Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716378
02/22/18 10:42 AM
02/22/18 10:42 AM
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maurus Offline
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Hi Zac,

Yes, the CP4 action is very nice and playable, kind of a miracle in a board of this weight (quite a bit lighter than the MP7!). I regularly practice on one of these... The main (CFX) sound is also quite sensitive and playable. Still, I prefer the wooden action of my VPC1 (this one is hooked up to a Nord Electro with beautiful piano sounds of its own wink ).

... Which leads me to the question: Why did you prefer the MP7 over the MP11 (with its GF action) in the end? Total weight? Or the new Shigeru sounds?

All Kawai wooden actions are beautiful to play, in my view.


Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716397
02/22/18 11:44 AM
02/22/18 11:44 AM
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Nashville, Tennessee
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Hey maurus, good question. It came down to money. My budget was $2000 or less and of all instruments I’ve played in the $2000 range, the Kawai had the best sound in my opinion. The Yamaha is second though. I have actually not had a lot of time playing the RHIII action so taking a chance on the MP7SE. If the RHIII becomes problematic, the CP4 will be the replacement.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716588
02/23/18 05:54 AM
02/23/18 05:54 AM
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maurus Offline
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Thanks for the answer Zac, makes sense of course.

Let us know how it goes with the MP7SE once you have more experience with it. I'd be particularly interested in your opinion on its action (and, in fact, how it stands up to extensive playing over a period of time).

Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716616
02/23/18 08:57 AM
02/23/18 08:57 AM
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Hello everybody,

My ES8 is fine, no problem. The keyboard is a great thing, and I have no difficulty to adapt myself on an upright nor a grand acoustic.
I play essentially ragtime (my ES8 is 2 years old)
I would like a heavier keyboard, because I think it is more controllable, but not sure it is really necessary.
The real problem is the pedals position.


Daewoo Royale RS 18 C - Kawai ES8
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716621
02/23/18 09:12 AM
02/23/18 09:12 AM
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If the pedal position is a problem, can't you get a standalone Kawai F-10 sustain pedal and put it wherever you want?

BTW, ragtime is one of my favs, I would love to be able to play it one day without sounding like I have two left feet smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: BachToTheFuture] #2716623
02/23/18 09:14 AM
02/23/18 09:14 AM
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Nashville, Tennessee
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Originally Posted by maurus
Thanks for the answer Zac, makes sense of course.

Let us know how it goes with the MP7SE once you have more experience with it. I'd be particularly interested in your opinion on its action (and, in fact, how it stands up to extensive playing over a period of time).


Thanks Maurus will do. I’m already missing the N1, but looking forward to the arrival of the MP7SE. I’m wondering if I should have stretched the budget to get the MP11SE, but with me in school I needed to compromise with the MP7SE. Will let you know how it goes.
Originally Posted by BachToTheFuture
Hello everybody,

My ES8 is fine, no problem. The keyboard is a great thing, and I have no difficulty to adapt myself on an upright nor a grand acoustic.
I play essentially ragtime (my ES8 is 2 years old)
I would like a heavier keyboard, because I think it is more controllable, but not sure it is really necessary.
The real problem is the pedals position.

This is good to hear and reasssuring since you’ve had he ES8 for 2 years and have no issues with the action.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Gombessa] #2716628
02/23/18 09:25 AM
02/23/18 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
If the pedal position is a problem, can't you get a standalone Kawai F-10 sustain pedal and put it wherever you want?

BTW, ragtime is one of my favs, I would love to be able to play it one day without sounding like I have two left feet smile


I have a fourth pedal, (it was given with the keyboard) don't know if it's the F-10.
But it is not a "heavy" pedal, it is not possible to feel the pedal like with an acoustic one.

I can do with my pedals, and I hope buying a new DP like the CA98... in order to play ragtimes louder.


Daewoo Royale RS 18 C - Kawai ES8
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716629
02/23/18 09:34 AM
02/23/18 09:34 AM
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Zac, we clearly love pianos here, but you're making the right choice. deferring short term satisfaction for long term gain is a hallmark of wisdom, and it's really not like you are giving up much with the MP7SE, the RH3 action isn't exactly a "compromise" to be burdened with, it's a class-leading digital action.

I'll be waiting to hear about your premium acoustic-grand purchase a decade from now wink


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Gombessa] #2716633
02/23/18 09:52 AM
02/23/18 09:52 AM
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Gombessa, thank you for the words. Yeah, I didn’t mean to come off as not being satisfied with the MP7SE as it is some major compromise. It will be a great instrument. And I hope Kawai comes or with a grand cabinet version of the NV10 because I have loved having the action of a grand but never needing a tuning! Once I’m through medical school, I told my wife, I am going to gift myself with a nice musical instrument...and she doesn’t mind!


Kawai MP7SE
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2716682
02/23/18 01:58 PM
02/23/18 01:58 PM
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Okay. Just received 2 emails from 2 professionals piano reviewers. One from Kawai and another from Tim (AZpianoreviews).

The first email explained that Kawai's RHIII action feels more balanced and not so exaggerantingly heavy comparing with Yamaha's GH action (CP4/40).

The second email (AZpianoreviews), told me that the MP7SE action is noticeably lighter than Yamaha's GH action in a way that becomes more enjoyable to play. And doesnt fatigue fingers and hands like Yamahas Graded Hammer action.

So. In the end it all with depend of how you like your piano keys to feel. Heavier or lighter. I had the CP4 with me for 10 days and it felt pretty heavy when playing. Now I will have the MP7SE with me for another 10 days. There is no better way of coming to a conclusion.

Last edited by Vadesriux; 02/23/18 02:01 PM.

Eduardo
Re: KAWAI RH3 (MP7SE/ES8) action vs Yamaha GH3 (CP4) action [Re: Vadesriux] #2717467
02/26/18 10:46 PM
02/26/18 10:46 PM
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Hi Eduardo, I think you are right. I had no luck trying pianos for a short time in stores. Every time I tried, each keyboard felt different.

I had an old Technics, a good piano but it really had a light action. I changed then to a CP33, more on the heavy side. But after some time of practice I realised that it was easier for me to alternate between the cp33 and my old upright. In that sense, the yamaha action really helped me a lot.

Then I started having problems while practicing more complex passages. At that time I thought the problem was the yamaha. I was specialy stucked on a difficult scale and I tried it in every keyboard I could. I tested Yamahas (CP4, CP5), Rolands (FP-30, FP50, FP80, HP-605), Kawais (ES8, MP11, CA17, etc.), and Casios (GP300, GX560). And I can assure you that after all that practice I was able to play that difficult scale in any of them, even in my old CP33.

Even so, after that long research, I narrowed down my options to similar alternatives. I think the best compromise between sound and action were the Yamaha CP5 (similar to the CP4 but lighter, and IMO the best piano sound for recording) and the Kawai ES8 (same as MP7 SE, bouncy and no so stiff but with better action and good sound). I couldn't test the new MP11 SE yet. I felt the MP11 action a little bit "lazy" (???), but whith the improved sound it could be the best compromise. I still don't know, If I could I would have them all, but I think I'll wait a little longer.

My two cents. Good luck and let us know your final conclusion.

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