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YAMAHA CP4 #2708504
01/25/18 05:36 PM
01/25/18 05:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
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Vadesriux Offline OP
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Well.. If you read my latest posts I was almost totally sold to buy a Kawai MP7SE. Really an incredible stage piano, listening from numerous good sounding youtube videos. Until I listened to the piano sounds on the Yamaha CP4. This is totally a matter of personal taste but in my case I found the CFX an CF pianos of the CP4 to be more smooth sounding - to my ears - than the SK-EX and EX Kawai piano sounds that - again to my ears - sound more mettalic when you attack the keys harder.
And yes, it's 5kg less that you'll have to lift with the CP4.

I know that the CP4 has 4 years old since launch date back in late 2013 but still remains a great stage piano with white wooden keys and - from most of the reviews - exceptional key action. Curiously, on two CP4 youtube videos, and even taking in account Yamaha's reported build quality, the owners demonstrated.... guess What (!!!) - the infamous CLICKY keys !!!! That's right. Even a famous brand with its top of the range stage piano can have clicking keys issues. So this is no longer exclusively a Kawai issue anymore.

In the end...you only need to be a bit UN-lucky to be send a keyboard with noise issues, even when buying new. My conclusion is that these are very complex and delicate mechanisms that are prone to manifest sonner or later - or never -some kind of physical noise artifacts. So we need to try and live with that, repairing when needed (if needed) and keep on playing.
I guees if Beethoven, when composing by the candle light, found himself to have a clicky key would not waste time in forums like we do (:O) but instead continued playing neverminding the noises. Of course if the noises would become like metal hammers hitting wood probably he would call for someone to fix it !
That is exactly what we should do!

Last edited by Vadesriux; 01/25/18 05:55 PM.

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Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708509
01/25/18 05:44 PM
01/25/18 05:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
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Could you post a link to one of these videos of the "clicky keys" issue? I bought my CP4 right after it launched and I've never heard this problem.

Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708510
01/25/18 05:46 PM
01/25/18 05:46 PM
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Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
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Never mind - I found a discussion about it here from two years ago that I responded to.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2560098/yamaha-cp4-clicky-noisy-keys.html

Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708513
01/25/18 05:51 PM
01/25/18 05:51 PM
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Vadesriux Offline OP
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Sure David:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idyXXqa0WEc

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juk51k2asO4

The second video has almost no issues, maybe a bit of noise on some black keys, but the first one (a new CP4) is most noticeable.


Eduardo
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Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708633
01/26/18 02:20 AM
01/26/18 02:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 364
Celestis
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Celestis
Originally Posted by Vadesriux
I guees if Beethoven, when composing by the candle light, found himself to have a clicky key would not waste time in forums like we do

No, he would not. Not sure whether one would even hear these clicks on an acoustic, given the volume. Esp when played by B. laugh
Although he is kind of a bad example, him going deaf in his later years.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708640
01/26/18 02:53 AM
01/26/18 02:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,627
Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted by Vadesriux
That's right. Even a famous brand with its top of the range stage piano can have clicking keys issues. So this is no longer exclusively a Kawai issue anymore.


What a strange statement. You didn't honestly believe that no other brand ever had/has issues with 'clicky keys'?!

Casio - clicky keys seem almost to be an inevitability after a little use.

I have a Korg (brand new) - there are clicky keys.
I have a Dexibell - there's two clicky keys.
I just sent back a brand new Roland FP90 due to horrendous clicky keys - and I'm far from being the only one on this forum (when I took it back the guy in the shop said "can't Roland get anything right these days" which implies to me that he's had all sorts of issues with recent models).

The only piano I possess that doesn't have clicky keys is my Kawai.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Yamaha CLP 645
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708662
01/26/18 03:05 AM
01/26/18 03:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,515
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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Sofia, Bulgaria
On my third Kawai and no clicky keys.

I haven’t played CP4 but if it is similar to CP5 must be absolutely great piano. Some years ago I had played CP5 numerous times in a store and found it working better for classical music even though it was not targeted at that (no graded action, etc). That light action and the key to sound connection were better than Clavinova counterparts at the time IMO smile Can’t remember why I didn’t buy it because I was about to. I think it coincided with me not playing in bands anymore, getting married, etc.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/26/18 03:06 AM.

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Currently: DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX, Yamaha NU1X
Previously: Kawai (ES7, MP6, CA63), Roland (RD-700SX, FP-5), Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708671
01/26/18 03:07 AM
01/26/18 03:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,490
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Just for the record...

Both of my Nord Electros (NE2, NE3) have clicky keys.
My (admittedly ancient) Korg X5 has clicky keys.

However, the clicking doesn't bother me in the slightest because all three boards still play absolutely fine.

My Kawai MP8II doesn't have clicky keys.

Regarding the CP4, I've played this board a handful of times, and every time I do I really enjoy...especially the EPs - there's just something about the action that's easy to play.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708753
01/26/18 06:38 AM
01/26/18 06:38 AM
Joined: May 2011
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maurus Offline
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Yes, clicky keys come in a lot of flavors (and brands). Had them on a Kurzweil, Nord Electro 3, found them in stores at least in Kawai (ES6 I think), Roland... I'm glad they are presently in *none* of my own boards (Electro 5 SW, Kawai VPC1, Yamaha CP4), but of course they might develop on either...

The thing is there SHOULD NOT be clicky keys in our digital instruments. The key action still is one of the problematic parts in DP's and mechanical stability as well as flawless function leave a lot to be desired. I suppose this is (just) one of the reasons why acoustic pianos are significantly more expensive on average. Any good wooden piano action is a completely different beast than, say, a generic Fatar device, or even one of the better digital actions like Yamaha's NW or Kawai GF.

Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: maurus] #2708811
01/26/18 10:34 AM
01/26/18 10:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
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Originally Posted by maurus
Yes, clicky keys come in a lot of flavors (and brands). Had them on a Kurzweil, Nord Electro 3, found them in stores at least in Kawai (ES6 I think), Roland... I'm glad they are presently in *none* of my own boards (Electro 5 SW, Kawai VPC1, Yamaha CP4), but of course they might develop on either...

The thing is there SHOULD NOT be clicky keys in our digital instruments. The key action still is one of the problematic parts in DP's and mechanical stability as well as flawless function leave a lot to be desired. I suppose this is (just) one of the reasons why acoustic pianos are significantly more expensive on average. Any good wooden piano action is a completely different beast than, say, a generic Fatar device, or even one of the better digital actions like Yamaha's NW or Kawai GF.


Acoustic actions aren't completely silent, and even the best ones will develop odd noises that need to be fixed with regular service. And there's no one reason that happens because of the complexity of acoustic actions. The question with me is whether I call the technician right now because there's a noisy key or just wait for the next tuning. Concert pianos that travel, even if only off stage and on, get serviced all the time.

I'm guessing these particular CP4s might have been mishandled during shipping or packing. There was certainly a consensus that it was an issue Yamaha would fix. In what manner, I don't know. I imagine if it happened to mine they'd probably want me to take it back to the dealer. My inclination at this point would probably be to just get the service manual and try to fix it myself if it happened. I believe Yamaha also recommends general servicing on their higher-end digitals after so many years (regrease the metal hammers, etc.)

Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2708817
01/26/18 10:49 AM
01/26/18 10:49 AM
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maurus Offline
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Yes, but for acoustic piano actions there is an entire profession that takes care of the servicing of the action (in fact for a very moderate amount), and the actions themselves are prepared for regular servicing. I am very happy with the regular visits of my piano technician for the two pianos I own... For DP's it's always a hazzle.

Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2715507
02/18/18 07:41 PM
02/18/18 07:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 235
Connecticut,USA
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Coker Offline
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Connecticut,USA
The Yamaha clicks keys issue is not a deterioration of the keybed. Rather, there is a small bushing sleeve located under the white keys near the front that slips off its post. When this happens, the key is allowed to move toward the front of the keybed when you press it, and it contacts with the front support, making the clicking sound. I just fixed several keys by opening up the keyboard, removing the offending keys, and slipping the bushings back on their posts. Easy! Unfortunately, one was missing, so I’ll need to order some replacement bushings.


Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93, Kurzweil SP6, EV ZXA1
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2715533
02/18/18 10:16 PM
02/18/18 10:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,524
Nashville, Tennessee
PianoZac Offline
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I love the CP4 action. Honestly, if the CP4 had the option of a triple pedal, I’d be seriously considering it. I know, that’s a relatively trivial matter for most people! Are there any plans to replace it? Surely they have something on the horizon. One of the local dealers here said they aren’t selling any of the higher end Yamaha’s anymore and said he was told that is why Yamaha dropped the price on the CP4. Don’t know if that’s true.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: PianoZac] #2715544
02/18/18 11:36 PM
02/18/18 11:36 PM
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
I love the CP4 action. Honestly, if the CP4 had the option of a triple pedal, I’d be seriously considering it.


What about the Roland RPU-3? You may need to reverse the polarity on the plugs but it looks like a great generic 3 pedal unit with separate soft, sostenuto and sustain plugs.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2715602
02/19/18 07:17 AM
02/19/18 07:17 AM
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Posts: 245
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moleskincrusher Offline
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I had the Roland RPU-3 triple pedal unit with my Roland FP-7F. It has 3 plugs which you plug into 3 dedicated jacks on the back of the Roland keyboard. IMO probably wouldn't work with a DP with a single damper pedal input, even with a 3-to-1 adapter.

Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: moleskincrusher] #2715610
02/19/18 08:17 AM
02/19/18 08:17 AM
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by moleskincrusher
I had the Roland RPU-3 triple pedal unit with my Roland FP-7F. It has 3 plugs which you plug into 3 dedicated jacks on the back of the Roland keyboard. IMO probably wouldn't work with a DP with a single damper pedal input, even with a 3-to-1 adapter.


Iirc the CP4 has 4 independent foot switch jacks (one sustain, one assignable foot switch, two assignable foot controllers).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Gombessa] #2715614
02/19/18 09:06 AM
02/19/18 09:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
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Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by moleskincrusher
I had the Roland RPU-3 triple pedal unit with my Roland FP-7F. It has 3 plugs which you plug into 3 dedicated jacks on the back of the Roland keyboard. IMO probably wouldn't work with a DP with a single damper pedal input, even with a 3-to-1 adapter.


Iirc the CP4 has 4 independent foot switch jacks (one sustain, one assignable foot switch, two assignable foot controllers).

I looked into trying that with someone else's (maybe Roland) triple foot pedal, but I would have lost the half-pedaling function on the sustain, which only works with Yamaha's pedal. I guess one could build a triple pedal box from scratch but it didn't seem very elegant.

Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: David Farley] #2715617
02/19/18 09:51 AM
02/19/18 09:51 AM
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by David Farley
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by moleskincrusher
I had the Roland RPU-3 triple pedal unit with my Roland FP-7F. It has 3 plugs which you plug into 3 dedicated jacks on the back of the Roland keyboard. IMO probably wouldn't work with a DP with a single damper pedal input, even with a 3-to-1 adapter.


Iirc the CP4 has 4 independent foot switch jacks (one sustain, one assignable foot switch, two assignable foot controllers).

I looked into trying that with someone else's (maybe Roland) triple foot pedal, but I would have lost the half-pedaling function on the sustain, which only works with Yamaha's pedal. I guess one could build a triple pedal box from scratch but it didn't seem very elegant.


I looked into this a while back, and I recall it was a polarity issue. the RPU-3 supports half pedaling (I think on all pedals, but definitely the sustain), you just have to switch a couple of wires inside to get it talking to the CP4 and working with continuous pedaling.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: Vadesriux] #2715661
02/19/18 12:45 PM
02/19/18 12:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Nashville, Tennessee
PianoZac Offline
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Thanks guys for the suggestions. I think overall the MP7SE represents a better overall value and it does come with the new GFP-3 triple pedal unit as an option. The combo of the MP7SE/GFP-3 is $1999 which is what the CP4 is alone (which is a great value or that board). I just think the Kawai sounds a little better as well and is an even better overall deal. I have officially sold my N1 so I am on the hunt for a replacement slab in and around the $2000 range preferably.

Last edited by PianoZac; 02/19/18 12:49 PM.

Kawai MP7SE
Re: YAMAHA CP4 [Re: PianoZac] #2715670
02/19/18 01:36 PM
02/19/18 01:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
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slobajudge Online content
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
Thanks guys for the suggestions. I think overall the MP7SE represents a better overall value and it does come with the new GFP-3 triple pedal unit as an option. The combo of the MP7SE/GFP-3 is $1999 which is what the CP4 is alone (which is a great value or that board). I just think the Kawai sounds a little better as well and is an even better overall deal. I have officially sold my N1 so I am on the hunt for a replacement slab in and around the $2000 range preferably.


Sorry if I missed something earlier, but why did you sold your N1 and now want a stage piano ?

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