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Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: Bernie_Ess] #2695409
12/08/17 05:36 PM
12/08/17 05:36 PM
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Posts: 7,134
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peterws Offline
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That's worth knowing. My fingers aren't exactly fat, but I had difficulty playing between those 3 black keys on GHS. Ivory feel S on the Roland FP80 was ok, as was that on the FP50 which I acquired. But FP80 had very noisy keys which put me completely off it.
Kinda lessens my choice for a replacement . . . . better verify PHA50 for meself . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2700643
12/30/17 12:35 PM
12/30/17 12:35 PM
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Hi.

My last cover of the year... Hoagy Carmichael : Heart and Soul

Piano Concert (supernatural) Ambience level 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYhsk1IFf4M&feature=youtu.be

I hope you like.

I wish you a great new year, full of music !

Last edited by bigbang; 12/30/17 01:07 PM.

Roland FP-90 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: mwf] #2703587
01/10/18 02:33 AM
01/10/18 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mwf
Dont' know what Roland have done but the recorded audio/sound is terrible on the Roland FP90, to my ears its one of the worst sounding samples I have ever heard, if not the worst, nothing wrong with the excellent playing though in that youtube video, but it sounds like a £500 piano not £1500! playing it live may be different of course. Its the same sample on the LX17 I think and that is so expensive, the piano sounds more digital and flat than ever, my roland 107 recorded better than this and that is ancient.


FP-90 does not use samples in Concert Piano, Ballad Piano, Mellow Piano, and Bright Piano, they are modeled and the rest are sampled. Never hear the examples in Youtube for sound reference, for example none of them sound as good as mine through my headphones (piano sound is very personal). Have you tested it with a pro headphones? Have you configured the piano designer? I have my FP-90 since some months and I'm very happy with the sound it have through my headphones (Sennheiser HD-600, the best headphones I ever used). If you test it with the built in speakers the sound is crap.
I bought monitors from KRK to attach to my piano but I returned them because the sound was horrible, really bad monitors. If you attach an external speaker to this piano you will need an external equalizer, otherwise it's difficult to find the sound you will like most.

Last edited by citytrader; 01/10/18 02:36 AM.
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2703698
01/10/18 02:15 PM
01/10/18 02:15 PM
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Speaker and (self-?) resonance.

Hi - any of you have had the experience that the (mostly right) speaker starts to distort , meaning producing a sort of self-resonance at low frequencies even when te volume is only at 25 ~ 33 % . This doesn't really seem to happen with AP sounds , but some of the EP and D50 PAD sounds and do that even when playing low velocities.

E.g. EP preset 4 VR EP 1 with bass notes and double notes (!) from c4 down - especially when played softly (it will switch to lower velocity layer / different sample with much more low frequency content). On my unit the speaker will then start to rattle/ rumble. With certain two tone combinations - I thought black keys - the speaker distorts more in that way , as said even at relatively bij low volume.

I was wondering if all FP90 's have that and if its a sort of speaker self-resonance in the design of the speakers (unfortunately).

Second thing is that - to bypass the problem - I tried to connect my Neumann monitor speakers , but had a lot of interference on the speaker (hum/distortion). Tried balanced / unbalanced , other cable sets , tried a ground lifter in-between, a passive mixer (that also lifts) - to no avail. In short - could not get my speaker set with balanced inputs working with the outputs of the FP90 without pretty loud buzz on the line. Weird. Same sets of speakers / cables work flawless on all my other equipment. Familiar to anyone / am I overlooking something. Used headphones mostly - so only found out later about these things. Just wonder if my unit is faulty or if the speakers rattle with certain sounds and line out issues are on all units and you just have to work-around them ?

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Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: JFP] #2703835
01/11/18 12:07 AM
01/11/18 12:07 AM
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citytrader Offline
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Originally Posted by JFP
Speaker and (self-?) resonance.

Hi - any of you have had the experience that the (mostly right) speaker starts to distort , meaning producing a sort of self-resonance at low frequencies even when te volume is only at 25 ~ 33 % . This doesn't really seem to happen with AP sounds , but some of the EP and D50 PAD sounds and do that even when playing low velocities.


I was wondering if all FP90 's have that and if its a sort of speaker self-resonance in the design of the speakers (unfortunately).

Second thing is that - to bypass the problem - I tried to connect my Neumann monitor speakers , but had a lot of interference on the speaker (hum/distortion).



I have none of your problems with external speakers (I tested even the D50 Pad), the internal speakers of my unit are disabled because they are garbage, probably you have a faulty unit.

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2703888
01/11/18 06:05 AM
01/11/18 06:05 AM
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Hi Citytrader,

Is it possible to just try and see if you have this resonating issue when the internal speakers are enabled ? Would be greatly appreciated. Then I know or sure if it is just my unit , or that ALL FP90 speakers have this behaviour with certain sounds.

"E.g. EP preset 4 VR EP 1 with bass notes and double notes (!) from c4 down - especially when played softly (it will switch to lower velocity layer / different sample with much more low frequency content). On my unit the speaker will then start to rattle/ rumble. With certain two tone combinations - I thought black keys - the speaker distorts more in that way , as said even at relatively bij low volume. Can try some fantasy D50 sounds or other EP's as well"

Many thanks in advance !

Cheers , J

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: JFP] #2703983
01/11/18 02:02 PM
01/11/18 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JFP
Hi Citytrader,

Is it possible to just try and see if you have this resonating issue when the internal speakers are enabled ? Would be greatly appreciated. Then I know or sure if it is just my unit , or that ALL FP90 speakers have this behaviour with certain sounds.

"E.g. EP preset 4 VR EP 1 with bass notes and double notes (!) from c4 down - especially when played softly (it will switch to lower velocity layer / different sample with much more low frequency content). On my unit the speaker will then start to rattle/ rumble. With certain two tone combinations - I thought black keys - the speaker distorts more in that way , as said even at relatively bij low volume. Can try some fantasy D50 sounds or other EP's as well"

Many thanks in advance !

Cheers , J


When you play low velocity, frequency content should not change, besides that I didn't find the problem yet.
Could you record the noise and upload the mp3 so I can understand the kind of the noise you hear?

I played Electric Piano variation 4, all notes below C4.

One suggestion, try to do the test with all the equalizer channels to minimum.

Last edited by citytrader; 01/11/18 04:01 PM.
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2704039
01/11/18 04:47 PM
01/11/18 04:47 PM
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What happens is that with certain EP presets when playing intervals (two notes at the same time or just bass notes, the speaker(s) start to have a low frequency rattle (conus starts too move a lot of air ;-) .

What I meant with playing soft is that on some EP presets the sound then switches to another velocity layer (obviously not SN sound then , otherwise you'd have no layer switching). Also when you hit some layered D50 like pad sounds harder, the speaker starts to give this same sort of flutter. Over headphones - all is clean. Seems like the speaker gets triggered by these frequencies and starts to self-resonate or something. Not familiar at all ? I was wondering if this was due to the design of the cabinet/speaker system and could be on all FP90's with certain sounds. Speaker are oval and not a circle as we know, so perhaps this weird physical shape causes such 'distortions' with some sounds. My FP is send back for repair(?), but if other FP's have the same , I don't want it back. Can't check it myself. Not a unit in any store nearby.

As said - other sound like AP don't have this , but that's probably because their frequency content is totally different. So - if any owner would say " I have that too" , I'd switch to another board. I didn't expect a realistic piano sound from the speakers, but a distorted sound with certain presets is at the other end of the tolerable spectrum for me. Then I don't have to wait 5 weeks for a repair that won't solve anything (resonance is not a bug ; it's a feature ;-) Thanks anyway !

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: JFP] #2704072
01/11/18 07:07 PM
01/11/18 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JFP
What happens is that with certain EP presets when playing intervals (two notes at the same time or just bass notes, the speaker(s) start to have a low frequency rattle (conus starts too move a lot of air ;-) .


I tried again and I did not find any issue like you wrote.

I hope you solve the issue!

By the way I don't understand why vendors sell pianos with internal speakers...

Last edited by citytrader; 01/11/18 07:26 PM.
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2704094
01/11/18 08:22 PM
01/11/18 08:22 PM
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I use VSTs currently - even though there's nothing better than that Dyno Rhodes preset. When I have played through the FP-90 speakers, I never had buzzing or rattling.


Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2704161
01/12/18 04:02 AM
01/12/18 04:02 AM
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Thanks - than it's probably just my unit and an issue with the speaker and/or amp. I'll just have it repaired and go from there. Apart from this issue , I liked the FP a lot while playing over headphones and after a few tweaks of the default settings. Very good key to sound connection and very dynamic to play. With all the pro's and cons of the sampled versus modelled debate taken into consideration.

BTW I was wondering if Roland secretly had two variations of the PHA50 in their models. The keybed of LX-17 and RD2000 felt very much alike - though the RD2000 had the more audible key-up thumping sound, whereas the LX17 didn't , but the FP90 feels a bit lighter somehow. Repetition (from the bottom of the key) on the LX/ RD is noticeably a bit better than on the FP. I know they are the exact same keybeds on paper , but in practice they don't feel 100% the same to me. Could it be the RD indeed uses a high-res scanning resolution whereas the FP does not ? RD is also capable of outputting HR MIDI, FP doesn't output HR as far as I know.

I hope they fix the speaker and output issues and that it doesn't turn out to be 'expected' behavior. I'll probably attach external monitors anyway, but I like the idea of build-in speakers so that I have them when I need them. Thanks for the input.

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: JFP] #2704245
01/12/18 12:06 PM
01/12/18 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JFP
Could it be the RD indeed uses a high-res scanning resolution whereas the FP does not ? RD is also capable of outputting HR MIDI, FP doesn't output HR as far as I know.


What do you mean by HR Midi?

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2704264
01/12/18 01:03 PM
01/12/18 01:03 PM
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France
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With high-res scanning, we can have more than 127 velocities : up to 16000. The MIDI specification is called High Resolution velocity prefix.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2704286
01/12/18 02:02 PM
01/12/18 02:02 PM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Originally Posted by JFP


BTW I was wondering if Roland secretly had two variations of the PHA50 in their models. The keybed of LX-17 and RD2000 felt very much alike - though the RD2000 had the more audible key-up thumping sound, whereas the LX17 didn't , but the FP90 feels a bit lighter somehow. Repetition (from the bottom of the key) on the LX/ RD is noticeably a bit better than on the FP. I know they are the exact same keybeds on paper , but in practice they don't feel 100% the same to me. Could it be the RD indeed uses a high-res scanning resolution whereas the FP does not ? RD is also capable of outputting HR MIDI, FP doesn't output HR as far as I know.

I hope they fix the speaker and output issues and that it doesn't turn out to be 'expected' behavior. I'll probably attach external monitors anyway, but I like the idea of build-in speakers so that I have them when I need them. Thanks for the input.


I doubt the keybeds are different, but the shell in which it sits and stand it is on in may affect the type of thumbing sound you get, and perhaps slightly affect the perception of feel also I guess, depending how much give/movement there is in the setup.

The Casios are often criticised for key noise, yet I have never found it to be an issue when playing at any sort of reasonable volume with the model I own. I did notice when picking my model ( AP 450 ) that the PX 150 at the time (which is housed in some sort of plastic casing ) made a different type of key thumb noise on a stand. In an MDF cabinet it comes across as a more muffled thumb, and not as intrusive. I do know that the actions and felts underneath however in both models are identical.

Anyway, just some thoughts.


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2704839
01/14/18 02:27 PM
01/14/18 02:27 PM
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Paris - France
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Hi.

The JBL LSR 305 are very good speakers !
The sound is warm and I've never heard any distortion.

My last cover : Bach - Marcello : Adagio in D minor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idzphp6Z6QU&feature=youtu.be

I hope you like !

I use multicam this time. I'm happy to learn new things.

Cheers from Paris.


Roland FP-90 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: Frédéric L] #2706531
01/19/18 03:59 PM
01/19/18 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
With high-res scanning, we can have more than 127 velocities : up to 16000. The MIDI specification is called High Resolution velocity prefix.


I had a talk just a couple of minutes ago with a technical person that works in Roland, FP-90 does not support HRVP neither Rainlink, even RD-2000 that should support Rainlink, it does not fully support it yet and seems is still pretty buggy with that protocol. HRVP seems to be a marketing gimmick because is very difficult for a normal person to understand the difference between 127 volume levels and 16383, for the other side, if you play with SuperNATURAL pianos, there are not volume resolution levels because they are mostly continuous (at the inside DSP circuit levels) something that does not happen with sampled pianos.

Last edited by citytrader; 01/19/18 04:16 PM.
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2706538
01/19/18 04:24 PM
01/19/18 04:24 PM
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Frédéric L Offline
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The purpose of HRVP is to provide UP TO 16383 levels. The number of levels will likely depends of the timers resolution.

The Piano Phoenix (of Adele H) has been designed with pianists, and they demanded around 1300 levels. Here HRVP can be useful.

But I am not sure to be experimented enough to appreciate this improvement.


About Rainlink, I have only heard marketing video, but that’s it. Nothing concrete. It is supposed to be open, but I have not found specifications.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: Frédéric L] #2706561
01/19/18 05:29 PM
01/19/18 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L


The Piano Phoenix (of Adele H) has been designed with pianists, and they demanded around 1300 levels. Here HRVP can be useful.


As I understand from they website is a modeled piano like the FP-90, but again, will someone hear the difference?...

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: citytrader] #2706564
01/19/18 05:41 PM
01/19/18 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by citytrader
As I understand from they website is a modeled piano like the FP-90, but again, will someone hear the difference?...


Let’s take an example I know about : the EWQL Bechstein VST has an huge velocity gap between two levels. It is painful to play with because I don’t feel the piano to react as I want. If some professional pianist demanded 1300, it is probably because they want something which react as they want.

I suppose also that - inside a digital piano where MIDI levels don’t matter - some levels are equivalent of 0,5, 0,75... or 128, 129, 130... and some other are between usual MIDI levels. I don’t know how they put additional levels compated with a useful MIDI range of levels.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2709260
01/27/18 05:37 PM
01/27/18 05:37 PM
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Hi.

My new piano cover : Game Of Thrones

Mellow piano (super natural)

I hope you like !

Cheers.


Roland FP-90 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2710432
01/31/18 04:24 PM
01/31/18 04:24 PM
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Hi.

My new piano cover : Game Of Thrones

Mellow piano (super natural)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmvizss7fRI

I hope you like !


Roland FP-90 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2714314
02/14/18 06:02 PM
02/14/18 06:02 PM
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Hi.
I use VST now : the Garritan CFX lite.
I learn midi and it's really powerfull !!!

ABBA : The winner takes it all :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjnmoLrb0RM&feature=youtu.be

I hope you like my cover.

Cheers.


Roland FP-90 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2714315
02/14/18 06:10 PM
02/14/18 06:10 PM
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Thanks for your frequent uploads bigbang!

Really curious to hear your impressions of CFX versus the Roland (and your old ES8) sounds, and what made you change (assuming it's your regular tone now).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2714318
02/14/18 06:19 PM
02/14/18 06:19 PM
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I record the sound in midi (via internal memory) with the Roland's sound in the headphones.

Then I edit the midi file with cubase elements, using the Garritan CFX Lite.
The sound is incredible !!!
But I only use it for Youtube upload.
I want to play just pushing one button on the FP90. No PC, No cubase, No VST... I prefere spend time working the piano.
When my cover is ready, I record midi.

I don't play the VST live.
I find the keyborad feeling difficult to setup. No latence but the action is not good for me.
I prefere the Roland velocity. Very easy to play.

I'd like to write it in french...

CFX is close to the ES8 sounds. It seems more organic.

Last edited by bigbang; 02/14/18 06:21 PM.

Roland FP-90 / JBL LSR 305 / BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80 ohms
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: bigbang] #2714333
02/14/18 08:06 PM
02/14/18 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbang
I record the sound in midi (via internal memory) with the Roland's sound in the headphones.


When my cover is ready, I record midi.

I don't play the VST live.
I find the keyborad feeling difficult to setup. No latence but the action is not good for me.
I prefere the Roland velocity. Very easy to play.

I'd like to write it in french...

CFX is close to the ES8 sounds. It seems more organic.


I know what you mean; I suspect others do too. My Roland sounds a tad lacking in the upper register, so I always play Pianoteq which has that nice ring to it. And I record the Pianoteq to wav. . . .job done.
But I wonder, since I got arguably better results playing on my previous Yamaha, and doing what you did; recording the Yam to SMS (MIDI) and transferring that to the Pianoteq Computer for onwards wav. recording, through any of the voices available to me then.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2715736
02/19/18 06:27 PM
02/19/18 06:27 PM
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Posts: 1,524
Nashville, Tennessee
Can the FP-90 be edited to the degree the V-Piano could? I remember old threads on here of the V-Piano where users were coming up with various sound parameters to try and mimic different concert grand characteristics.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2715918
02/20/18 01:45 PM
02/20/18 01:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80
Warsaw, Poland
A
AlphaBravoCharlie Offline
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AlphaBravoCharlie  Offline
Full Member
A

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80
Warsaw, Poland
No, it cannot. You can basically just adjust 'effects'. Soundboard option changes timbre a little bit, but still it's just the same base which you probably won't like and will try to convine yourself, that you do.

OK I don't want to be harsh on Roland, I'm a big fan of their pianos but the modelled sound is, well, just as it is. If you don't like it, don't cheat yourself - no adjustment will help to change it a lot.

Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2716517
02/22/18 08:43 PM
02/22/18 08:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 94
PA
puremusic Offline
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puremusic  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 94
PA
Ordered my FP-90 today, should ship tomorrow I was told my the salesman.

Lots of useful info on this thread helped me make the decision, thanks fellows.

That whole Rainlink segue was interesting too.

Got a nice white one!


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: puremusic] #2716533
02/22/18 10:16 PM
02/22/18 10:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,524
Nashville, Tennessee
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member
PianoZac  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,524
Nashville, Tennessee
Originally Posted by Qaroll
No, it cannot. You can basically just adjust 'effects'. Soundboard option changes timbre a little bit, but still it's just the same base which you probably won't like and will try to convine yourself, that you do.

OK I don't want to be harsh on Roland, I'm a big fan of their pianos but the modelled sound is, well, just as it is. If you don't like it, don't cheat yourself - no adjustment will help to change it a lot.


I agree. I ended up ordering a Kawai MP7SE. I was considering the FP90, but I couldn’t warm up to the sounds. I appreciate what Roland is doing, but not quite there yet in tone for my ears.

Originally Posted by puremusic
Ordered my FP-90 today, should ship tomorrow I was told my the salesman.

Lots of useful info on this thread helped me make the decision, thanks fellows.

That whole Rainlink segue was interesting too.

Got a nice white one!


Congrats! Should be an excellent piano for you.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: Roland FP-90 [Re: brooster] #2716540
02/22/18 11:17 PM
02/22/18 11:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 94
PA
puremusic Offline
Full Member
puremusic  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 94
PA
Congrats on your new Kawai too!

I had limited options to try out at my local music shop, couldn't try out a lot of different same tier priced pianos, but could try out an RD-2000. The triple sensor expressiveness was what I was looking for.

The default sounds of the FP-90 need some tweaking for my taste as far as I can tell from the demos I've heard, I prefer a less digital or electric sound if that's the right way to describe it, I aim for classical style sounds. But after a lot of hunting through a lot of demos I heard some folks tweaking it to where I was content enough with it, and the built in sounds in the end are of minor importance to me compared to the keyboard feel, as I will mostly be using it connected up to a DAW with a lot of recorded piano and other sample libraries I am very happy with. smile


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
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