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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714158
02/14/18 03:51 AM
02/14/18 03:51 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
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Kenny Cheng Offline
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I believe all Kawai GX series and GL series use the same Millennium III Action. I think the only difference between GX and GL keyboards are key surfaces. And I think key lengths for GX and GL are the same no matter what piano size is (need confirm).

The smaller grand pianos have shorter strings and smaller soundboards (resulting in different sound characteristics such as dynamic ranges / velocity curves) and that's why you feel differently even if the action parts are the same.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: 8 Octaves] #2714159
02/14/18 03:58 AM
02/14/18 03:58 AM
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Portland, OR, USA
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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves
I hope the information that the NV10 action is adapted from GL10 is incorrect because that would be bad. The AG actions are adapted from Yamaha C3 / C5, which are much bigger pianos with longer heavier actions. I find it hard to believe Kawai will come out with a product years later and choose to adapt the action from their cheapest entry level piano. Very disappointed.


Yamaha AG actions are based on Yamaha C1 as per this source.- the smallest 5' 3" baby grand in C series.

I don't believe Kawai has said anything about which of Their GL or GX series piano NV10's action is based on. Kawai advertised that all their piano use 'extended length keys' - including the smallest GL-10. There does not seem to be authoritative information out there regarding the key length and pivot length for different grand pianos within Kawai's GL or GX series pianos.

Osho


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Kawai Novus NV10 + Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Kenny Cheng] #2714169
02/14/18 04:43 AM
02/14/18 04:43 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
I think key lengths for GX and GL are the same no matter what piano size is (need confirm).


This is not correct. The key length typically increases with the length of the piano.

However, I'm afraid I am not aware of any (publicly available) Kawai materials that list the respective key lengths of each grand piano model.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: computerpro3] #2714173
02/14/18 05:28 AM
02/14/18 05:28 AM
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I agree with computerpro3 and 8 Octaves in so far, that a better instrument does not make one a better musician. That expectation is there, nonetheless, at least subconsciously. I've had this twice now during the last 2+ years: First upgrading from the Yamaha P115 to the CA97 (a substantial leap regarding the action), and now from the CA97 to the NV10 (still a leap, but not as substantial as the first one). Each time I knew of course that just getting the new instrument would not make me a better musician. Actually, this time around I even told myself so repeatedly before the NV10 arrived, to keep expectations down. But still, subconsciously, there's this feeling when you sit down at the new "better" instrument, that you somehow have now morphed into a Maestro. smile Only to then sheepishly realize that, well, no, you are still playing the same repertoire as before (with mostly the same mistakes!), and you did not suddenly learn the full set of Beethoven sonatas and you still don't play any Mozart piano concertos. grin

But, and that's an important but, the better instrument still makes quite a difference, in two factors that are quite important to me:

The first factor is enjoyment and satisfaction. I enjoyed playing the CA97 with its soundboard and GFII action so much more than playing the P115 (usually with headphones, as the speaker sound is very bad). It was simply an incredible feeling, having this new instrument under my fingers, and that enjoyment stayed with me the whole two years. But still, now again with the NV10, there's again another increment in this enjoyment, for various reasons (the even better action being one of them).
And if the enjoyment grows, then, in my opinion, also the musicianship grows. So in a sense, I am a slightly (very slightly) better musician now, than I was before, or at least the road to becoming one is now a bit smoother.

The second factor is the purely technical. Each time I got an instrument with a better action, I definitely did notice an improvement in certain areas. I don't remember the details, but when going from the P115 to the CA97, I did have some passages that had always given me problems, that I could now play much more easily. And the same thing happened again now, with the switch to the NV10. I've already mentioned that I felt that fast runs and ornaments feel easier on the NV10. But for a concrete example, take Mozart's Fantasia in C minor, K. 475. I had played this piece many years ago (probably partially only, I don't remember exactly) and had recently, only a few weeks ago, started to work on it again, still with my CA97. I was very unsatisfied with the results. In the starting Adagio, when the Alberti bass starts in measure 6, with the melody notes "dotted" above that background by the right hand in a delicate "p", I could not manage to play that to my satisfaction (although I didn't practice it seriously either). Somehow the bass always drowned out my melody, and I had to play that melody quite indelicately at mf to have it stand out from the bass. With the NV10, I immediately managed to play that much better, on my first try. Suddenly I could keep the bass at a nice low background drone with the p melody above. That was definitely a function of the new instrument. I'm not sure if it was the new action alone, or the new pianist mode, or the different speaker system, or a combination of those, but the effect was definitely there.
So yes, one can certainly manage to learn most repertoire even on a "lesser" instrument (with a Kaway GFII or even a Yamaha GH action), but it just takes more effort to do so. Yes, I could probably have learned to play those measures of the Fantasia properly even on my CA97, but learning this would have required a lot of extra practice. With the NV10, it got better by a good increment all by itself, so I can now spend this extra practice time on other issues (and there are quite a few for me in that piece wink).

And that last item brings me back to the enjoyment factor: If I have to practice less to get the same achievement, or if I can achieve more with the same practice effort, then this brings me more enjoyment at the instrument. I'm a hobby pianist who almost exclusively plays on his own instrument, at home. I don't do gigs or recitals or whatever, where I can encounter all kinds of different pianos where it would be an advantage if I could adapt quickly to them (and it therefore might be a good idea to not have too good an instrument as my practice instrument, so that if I encounter a bad instrument somewhere, it's not so much of a shock). I want to maximize my enjoyment when playing at home, and getting easier and faster results with the same practice effort is a big factor for that.

So I'm not asking "when will I outgrow the instrument I currently have, and where does it hinder me?", because for my CA97, the answer to that would be "I will never outgrow it, and it doesn't hinder me, it's me who needs to learn to work with the instrument".

Instead, I'm asking "will the new instrument increase my enjoyment when playing the piano?" and both times I switched pianos in the last years, the answer to that was an resounding "yes".

BTW, just for the fun of it, let's see how that would transfer to the world of acoustic pianos. Because I have noticed that my three pianos, P115, CA97 and NV10, have a progression both in price and "quality" that you can find correspondingly in the acoustic world - if you multiply the prices by 10. smile

The P115 was a decent entry-level digital at 600€, the CA97 a high quality digital at 3,000€ and the NV10 a first tier digital at 9,000€. Take this times ten and you get: A decent entry-level acoustic upright for 6,000€, a high quality acoustic grand for 30,000€ and a first tier acoustic grand for 90,000€ (talking new instruments, not used). All three of these instruments would be fine instruments in their class, and the argument that you could learn 95% of the repertoire even on the 6,000€ upright would probably also be true. But still, many pianists (even hobby pianists, but professionals even more so) that have the necessary money and living conditions upgrade to that 30,000€ grand at some point. And some, with even more disposable income, even go for that 90,000€ first tier grand. And I would not be surprised if they do this for similar reasons as I had for my upgrades in the digital world, i.e. mostly for the higher enjoyment that they can get out of the more expensive instruments (because of the way they look, feel, sound, respond, etc.).

So my advice would be: Always go for the best instrument you can afford, to maximize your enjoyment. But on the other hand, if you can not afford a certain "better" instrument that you are longing for, don't allow this to affect your enjoyment either. Remember that even with the instrument that you do have, you can find enjoyment, make fine music, and become a good musician.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: 8 Octaves] #2714178
02/14/18 05:57 AM
02/14/18 05:57 AM
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Germany
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@ 8 Octaves,

With respect, but your claim and statement, quote [...] "The only exception is the Boesendorfer 155 because it has the same action as the Boesendorfer 200." [...] is wrong!

It is true that there is still a brochure in print and download / PDF file in circulation, where on page 28 "Model 155 Mignon" is described that this model has the same key length which is used for the larger models 170-200.

This description is wrong.

On the basis of this description, which I assume that you refer exactly to this, I've had some phone calls with Bösendorfer about a year ago and asked why in that mentioned brochure and in addition on their website in the description of the models 170 and 185 is not (!) mentioned that these both models are equipped with the key length of the model 200? I went on to explain that with the statement in the brochure as well as on the website, the next larger models 170 and 185 would have a smaller (!) key length than the smallest BÖSENDORFER 155 model. That would be very unusual, say pure nonsense. Furthermore, I asked if this is more likely to be a "printing error", and the model 155 probably only incorporas the key length of the next larger model, the model 170.

After some confusion with my interlocutor and some consultation of this topic within the house in Vienna, it became true that the model 155 does not have the key length of the model 200, but "only" houses that of the model 170. Likewise, the models 170 and 185 do not have the key length of the model 200!
The web page was corrected accordingly. The statements on the website of Bösendorfer regarding this topic are correct now for about a year.


YAMAHA C7, YAMAHA Disklavier U1 Mark IIXG, YAMAHA NU1, YAMAHA Tyros 1, KAWAI MP10
Near future purchases: 2x KAWAI NOVUS NV ?? upright+grand (video shooting/rec.,rental), YAMAHA Genos (rec.,rental)
Distant future purchases (5 years): STUART & SONS Concert Grand 108 keys (video shooting/recording)
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: 8 Octaves] #2714185
02/14/18 07:33 AM
02/14/18 07:33 AM
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UK
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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves
The GL10 action is too small. Very few actions from any 5' grand (so called micro-grands) are any good, including the Yamaha GB1/GC1, Steinway S, Kawai GL10/30, the whole lot. The only exception is the Boesendorfer 155 because it has the same action as the Boesendorfer 200. Sure if you had to buy a small grand piano that's one thing, but a DP does not need much more space beyond the action enclosure unlike a real piano where the piano maker needed to move the strike point away from the rim. Boesendorfer solved that problem though.


That the action keybed is GL10/30 based is speculation from people here based on marketing shots of said GL actions and similarities such as the key surfaces as well as the convienient existance of ATX versions of those two pianos, not 'information' per se.

I don't think bosendorfer particularly 'solved' any problem either. It's simply a design choice, you can have a longer keybed in a small grand if you want but you get shorter bass strings for any particular piano length as a consequenence, kawai have been making the same design choice with their smaller pianos in recent years hence the marketing blurb about longer keys.

As has been noted with tape measures further upthread, the key length on the novus is longer than the AGs

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: akc42] #2714186
02/14/18 07:37 AM
02/14/18 07:37 AM
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I am clearly blind. Thanks.

Still I'd be interested in actual measurements. And would love to be able to use any good DAC being fed with digital signal, esp. as good as the one advertised in NV10.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714199
02/14/18 09:48 AM
02/14/18 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves



The actions in these small pianos are too light. I don't understand why Kawai is using such a small piano's action for the NV10.


Huh. Maybe there is a personal perception issue here. But I played the NV10 against s number of new GLs, including the GL10 and GL30, as well as several 6-7ft GX Blaks and 6-7 ft SKs. IMO the actions never never heavier going up in size, and in fact they always seemed lighter to me. Same with Yamaha playing the C3 and C7, and of the pianos I've tried the 7ft and 9 ft Bosendorfers felt the lightest of the bunch.

I don't recall if you've had a chance to try the Novus, but if you're are worried that the action will be too light, I would definitely suggest giving it a try. IMO it's not at all among the lightest of acoustic grand actions I've tried (closer to the opposite actually).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714205
02/14/18 10:20 AM
02/14/18 10:20 AM
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the actions never never heavier going up in size, and in fact they always seemed lighter to me

I agree with Gombessa. This is my experience, too. It stands to reason if you agree that quality and design get better as the size of the piano increases. The higher up the range, the lighter, is a general rule. The better the components and the design, the lighter and more regular the touch can be set. Although, against that practical factor is the physical one which is that a larger piano, producing more volume, will need more energy, force (weight) to achieve those volumes. But this may be offset by gains in the efficiency of the mechanism.

Whatever the reason, the heaviest, stodgiest actions are on cheap (smaller) pianos and the lighter, more responsive, on the more expensive (and larger) ones.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: toddy] #2714210
02/14/18 10:33 AM
02/14/18 10:33 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
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Originally Posted by toddy
the actions never never heavier going up in size, and in fact they always seemed lighter to me

I agree with Gombessa. This is my experience, too. It stands to reason if you agree that quality and design get better as the size of the piano increases. The higher up the range, the lighter, is a general rule. The better the components and the design, the lighter and more regular the touch can be set. Although, against that practical factor is the physical one which is that a larger piano, producing more volume, will need more energy, force (weight) to achieve those volumes. But this may be offset by gains in the efficiency of the mechanism.

Whatever the reason, the heaviest, stodgiest actions are on cheap (smaller) pianos and the lighter, more responsive, on the more expensive (and larger) ones.


Exactly, the larger piano of the same series normally easier to play soft but might need more force to play forte.

It depends on how you define “havey”.

In DP, you should be able to set the velocity curve to your preference.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714212
02/14/18 10:40 AM
02/14/18 10:40 AM
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Zagreb, Croatia
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Originally Posted by JoBert


So my advice would be: Always go for the best instrument you can afford, to maximize your enjoyment. But on the other hand, if you can not afford a certain "better" instrument that you are longing for, don't allow this to affect your enjoyment either. Remember that even with the instrument that you do have, you can find enjoyment, make fine music, and become a good musician.


I'd just like to +1 this sentiment... I spent several years struggling learning on a crappy guitar, being convinced from the outside that it's all I need and once I get better, I can get a better instrument.

Truth be told, I only got better at guitar after I bought a much better instrument than the one I started on. The ease of playing it just made all the difference, especially with motivation factor. What was once drudgery was suddenly enjoyment, even though my skill level was exactly the same. Not that I ended up being anything more than a hack, but I enjoyed the road travelled a whole lot more.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714236
02/14/18 11:45 AM
02/14/18 11:45 AM
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Thanks guys, I get the point. The piano by it self won't make me "better". At my age and level I will NEVER be able to play the passage from Brahms 2. Nor do I want to. I like playing "Stardust", "Moon River", etc. But does that mean I will not enjoy playing on a piano with a better action? If I lived alone and wouldn't bother everyone listening to me practice progressions, or the same four bars over and over, I would purchase a six foot grand. However, that isn't going to happen. So I want the best "piano" I can buy that will fit in my study and I can play with headphones. The CS11 is a fine instrument, no doubt. But if the NV10 or an AG will provide a better experience, why not get it?


Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Kawai James] #2714294
02/14/18 04:09 PM
02/14/18 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
8 Octaves, thank you for your post.

May I ask where it was stated that the NV10 keyboard action is adapted from the GL10?

I don't believe there has been any official statement from Kawai regarding this point.

Kind regards,
James
x


Hi James,

Right, it was stated a couple of times in this thread by posters, which is why I said I hope the info is wrong. The poster said "with good authority" for what it's worth. Yes, I'm skeptical because someone else said the AG is based on the C1 action, which is also false. The source is some piano sales website. Anyone playing a C1 then an N3 will know those are completely different actions, so different they might as well come from different companies. It is very wrong to think there is such a thing as a grand piano action. There certainly isn't such a thing as one Kawai grand piano action as the RX3 and GX-3 and SK3 have actions that feels completely different and we're not even talking about vastly different sizes of Kawai. Too often the discussions on this forum assume a grand piano is one thing when it's hundreds of completely different things.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: 8 Octaves] #2714295
02/14/18 04:15 PM
02/14/18 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves


Right, it was stated a couple of times in this thread by posters, which is why I said I hope the info is wrong. The poster said "with good authority" for what it's worth. .


Hopefully not the same post that claimed the NV10 is actually made by building a full GL10 and then sawing the back end off, and then covering the back with cardboard after installing an ES110 into it for the tone generator wink


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Francis Martin] #2714296
02/14/18 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Francis Martin
After some confusion with my interlocutor and some consultation of this topic within the house in Vienna, it became true that the model 155 does not have the key length of the model 200, but "only" houses that of the model 170. Likewise, the models 170 and 185 do not have the key length of the model 200! The web page was corrected accordingly. The statements on the website of Bösendorfer regarding this topic are correct now for about a year.


Thanks for this update. When I played the 155 last, it did feet larger than a typical Steinway S, which I assume was this key length described in their marketing materials. I guess having the action of the 170 is ok, but exaggerating that it is the same as the 200, well, shame on them.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2714297
02/14/18 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Hopefully not the same post that claimed the NV10 is actually made by building a full GL10 and then sawing the back end off, and then covering the back with cardboard after installing an ES110 into it for the tone generator wink


Really? I missed that one. It's a great idea! laugh

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: 8 Octaves] #2714298
02/14/18 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Hopefully not the same post that claimed the NV10 is actually made by building a full GL10 and then sawing the back end off, and then covering the back with cardboard after installing an ES110 into it for the tone generator wink


Really? I missed that one. It's a great idea! laugh


http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...nteresting-conversation.html#Post2703150

Quote
What I've heard over the holidays from reputable sources was even more interesting:

Kawai is actually making the Novus NV10 "hybrids" from real GL-10 models, by sawing off the back portion of the grand piano, and gluing a third leg to keep it upright.

...

I can't disclose my source, but let's just say he's from Korvatunturi and has been in the business of delivering musical instruments and all kinds of things even small children enjoy a LONG TIME.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: 8 Octaves] #2714300
02/14/18 04:28 PM
02/14/18 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Hopefully not the same post that claimed the NV10 is actually made by building a full GL10 and then sawing the back end off, and then covering the back with cardboard after installing an ES110 into it for the tone generator wink


Really? I missed that one. It's a great idea! laugh


Wait! You’re telling me the Novus is not a sawed-off GL10?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Kenny Cheng] #2714301
02/14/18 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
I believe all Kawai GX series and GL series use the same Millennium III Action. I think the only difference between GX and GL keyboards are key surfaces. And I think key lengths for GX and GL are the same no matter what piano size is (need confirm).

The smaller grand pianos have shorter strings and smaller soundboards (resulting in different sound characteristics such as dynamic ranges / velocity curves) and that's why you feel differently even if the action parts are the same.


No, none of this can be true. This is simply not consistent with how pianos of different sizes are designed or made regardless of the manufacturer. Kawai must follow the laws of physics like everyone else. It's absurd to think a 9-ft concert grand would share the same action as a 5-ft micro grand.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714302
02/14/18 04:42 PM
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It is very well known that Kawai does not follow the laws of physics like everyone else!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2714304
02/14/18 04:54 PM
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Frédéric L  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,605
France
Originally Posted by Pete14
It is very well known that Kawai does not follow the laws of physics like everyone else!


It is true that 100 J of energy applyed to a key can’t produce more than 100 J of sound (in fact far less, because of a low efficiency)... excepted with electronic devices smile


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714305
02/14/18 05:11 PM
02/14/18 05:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 21
Germany
F
Francis Martin Offline
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Francis Martin  Offline
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F
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 21
Germany
With regard to the parts of the action and keyboard used in the NV10, last October I found the following report in the "JMT Web News" (Japan Music Trade). It is from Sep. 07, 2017, and the last paragraph reads:

[...] "Kawai newly designed the keyboard for NV10 based on Ultra-responsive Action II built into Kawai acoustic grand piano in the same length, basic structure and parts of GX-1 grand piano.
According to Kawai spokesman, main markets for NV10 are expected to be music colleges as well as discerned amateurs." [...]

Whether the spokesman also made the statement about the "parts from the GX-1" in the lines above "main markets for NV10 are"?
One can certainly find out more about the report mailing to the editors of JMT.

@ KAWAI James,
you see, this topic keeps coming up again and again. It’s not the first time.
And that's good! Because it is obviously of greater interest.
Would be great, if we could finally get clarity and more transparency from the official side. Better, it would come from KAWAI as of others.
I think KAWAI does not have to hide at all!

Below, the link to the complete (but not long) publication:
http://www.musictrades.co.jp/english/detail

[Edit]
Sorry, the link above is about their news starting from Nov. 06, 2017 to present.
Though, have a look to the news from Jan. 05 2018 03:04 PM:

"Yamaha Opens Factories in Indonesia and India".

Have a special focus on the third paragraph:
[...] "Yamaha Musical Products Asia mainly intensifies production capability of digital pianos to be able to supply to world markets. The addition of a new factory will allow Yamaha to realign overall production lines at the existing 5 plants in Indonesia. It starts operation in this August." [...]

What's going to be built there?!


Now, here we are with the right link to the JMT News for the NV10:
http://www.musictrades.co.jp/english/detail/?param=8696

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714331
02/14/18 07:36 PM
02/14/18 07:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 375
SoCal, USA
TomLC Online content
Gold Subscriber
TomLC  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 375
SoCal, USA
My new NV10 will be delivered tomorrow! Yes I had to write a big check. Hope this is my last piano. (I told my wife that when I bought the CS11.)


Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714344
02/14/18 09:43 PM
02/14/18 09:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 528
Usa
G
Grandman Offline
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Grandman  Offline
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G
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 528
Usa
That was quick, did you buy without trying?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2714429
02/15/18 02:54 AM
02/15/18 02:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,428
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,428
Germany
Originally Posted by TomLC
My new NV10 will be delivered tomorrow! Yes I had to write a big check. Hope this is my last piano. (I told my wife that when I bought the CS11.)

Congratulations! I wish you a lot of fun with it!

Would be great if you would post here about your experience, once you've got the piano.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714464
02/15/18 07:49 AM
02/15/18 07:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 141
P
PianoGuyStuart Offline
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PianoGuyStuart  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 141
Think I might pop into Rose Morris when I get a chance and play the CA98 with some HD650 headphones, as its supposedly the same sound (though I still don't know if the NV10 has more actual amplifying power over headphones?)

The article linked to earlier gave the indication that the CA98 had plenty enough power headphone wise for HD650s. But hearing yourself is believing! Underwhelmed by them on the YDP163, but that may be down to it not having enough power over the headphones.

Doubt RM will have the NV10. I seem to recall them saying that it would go on their website immediately when it arrives, and its not on their at the moment.

Anyone found an NV10 in a showroom in London that can be played?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714469
02/15/18 08:01 AM
02/15/18 08:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 117
Cornwall. UK
funkycornwall Offline
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funkycornwall  Offline
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Posts: 117
Cornwall. UK
Yes I'm visiting London for a few days in mid March so I contacted Rose Morris about the NV-10 and they said they hoped to have it at the end of March. I'd also like to try it out so very interested if you can find one in London. Bonners may have it but that's Eastbourne or Reigate not London.

You'd think the capital city would have one to test out somewhere

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714472
02/15/18 08:12 AM
02/15/18 08:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
K
kiwibd Offline
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kiwibd  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
I just had a chance to try the Novus NV10. Long story short: I still very much prefer the touch of a Yamaha N2 (even without TRS).

First of all a bit of background about myself: I am not a professional but I graduated with a Bachelor's Degree in Music, majoring in piano. I used to spend 3-5 hours a day in the practice room with a grand piano in the university during my 3 years of study and I have played on quite a lot of grand pianos. I mainly play classical pieces (mainly Chopin, Liszt, Schubert, Mozart)

Before testing it today in JustMusic Berlin I was practicing on an acoustic grand for an hour. Afterwards I played on both Avand Grand N2 and Kawai NV10.

The NV10 to me has a sensitive action and good sound (playing with headphone), very realistic pedals. However, the touch of it lacks the depth or "stiffness" i need when I play a classic piece. Once you put your hand on it, your fingers almost go directly straight to the bottom of the key. It might be "easier" to play but this makes it (at least for me) very difficult to control the touch I want for the music. Sometimes when I want bring out different textures in a piece and create different timbres, I need that amount of key resistance to create such subtleness. I find it difficult to do it when the key is too loose and it goes straight to the bottom too easily. (could be an issue resulted by my technique) I always play with my arm on the piano. Those who only use finger technique to play the piano may find the Kawai NV10 easier to play.

To me the Yamaha N2 has a touch which suits me better. It has the resisitance which I need to create the difference. I wouldn't say it feels exactly the same as a grand piano. But it's by far the most realistic touch I've played on a digital (from my own experience). I can easily create different textures and tone colors on it. The sound isn't amazing. But to me, the TOUCH is the most important thing when I practice, as it's the thing which allows me to create the subtleness in my performance. For a better sound, I believe I can use a VST (like the Garritan CFX).

With the headphones plugged in, I wasn't impressed by the sound of NV10 either. I believe neither Yamaha or Kawai's sample can compare to a dedicated music sample library like Garritan CFX.

This is just my opinion. After all, it all depends on personal preference smile


Last edited by kiwibd; 02/15/18 10:00 AM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714481
02/15/18 08:48 AM
02/15/18 08:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,428
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,428
Germany
kiwibd, it's interesting to hear those different impressions. It just goes to show that there is no such think as the grand piano action. Acoustic actions are just as varied (if not more so) as digital actions.

It would be interesting to hear if that acoustic grand that you played just before going to JustMusic was a Yamaha? Then it would probably not be surprising that the N2 felt more "correct" to you than the NV10.

Personally, I have much less experience than you playing acoustic grands (essentially none), so when I tested the NV10, to get a base line I also tested the Kawai GL30 and GL50 pianos that Thomann had in the shop, which have more or less the same action as the NV10. And as I wrote in my initial post, I felt that the resistance (the "pressure point" you need to overcome) of the NV10's action was stronger than those of the GL30 and GL50 (back then I speculated that those have maybe been in the show room for a longer time and have been worn out, or smoothed out a bit). So if the NV10 action felt to you like it lacked depth, then I would guess that those two GL30 and GL50 pianos would have felt even more lacking, in that regard.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2714486
02/15/18 09:21 AM
02/15/18 09:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,416
Orange County, California
bSharp(C)yclist Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bSharp(C)yclist  Offline
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Posts: 1,416
Orange County, California
I think we get used to the action we play with. If forced, and we had to go from NV10 to N2, or the other way around, I'm sure all of us here would get used to it and learn to play just fine on it.

I played on a 170K Bösendorfer once with the music school. I can't say I liked it. The action felt all wobbly, no stiffness. But that just goes to show you that I don't know anything. There is probably a reason for it being wobbly. If I had the opportunity to play on it everyday, I'm sure I could get used to it, and grow to like it.


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