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Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2678610 09/29/17 03:35 PM
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enzo.sandrolini Offline
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Hello, congratulations and welcome in the happy AG owners.
I own mine for 4 years now, and I have never regretted my choice.
I have sold many others DP I bought, but I still keep my N2, and do not plan to change it.
Enjoy.


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
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Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2678691 09/29/17 09:34 PM
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Good call. May you be as happy with your N2 as I am with my N3. It's an instrument to be reckoned with ...


Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Practice: Bosie 200, Yam N3
Live: Nord Piano 4, Stage 3 Compact
Amps: QSC K.2s, RCF TT08-s, FA 12-ac, CPS SSv3
Support: STAY stands, X-Air mixers, Vent II, etc
Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: Gombessa] #2678747 09/30/17 07:03 AM
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Chris Warren Offline
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Don't forget you can use a sound blend of PT and N2, playing the PC output back through the N2. Sounds pretty rubbish through the speakers, but great through headphones. The roughly 60/40 mix I use, with PT dynamics slider turned up full, gives me a bit better touch response and range of dynamics, masks the sustenuto pedal issue, and adds a nice little bit of depth to the bass notes. Results here if interested

Hearthis

Congrats on your purchase.

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: Chris Warren] #2678773 09/30/17 09:59 AM
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enzo.sandrolini Offline
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Correct, I do the same blending the sound of the N2 with Ivory 2,
Thus, I get a very rich sound that even the new N2X would not overcome (as I can adapt the final result sound to my wish)

But, even without blending the sound, the internal sound is already really satisfying by itself.


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2678795 09/30/17 12:11 PM
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bSharp(C)yclist Offline OP
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I had to return to reality yesterday and work. I was able to play some more last night. In regards to gvfarns question, yes changing the sensitivity does change things a bit. Before changing, I was able to get a velocity value of close to 110. On the lighter touch, I was able to get around 120. But wow, you have to hit it hard. I'm guessing that's just how they designed it, perhaps to be more realistic. Or maybe I just haven't learned the proper technique for really loud sounds.

At the lower end, I feel like I can produce a lot more notes at lower velocity values (compared to YDP 181), so I think the dynamic range is still there.

I didn't think about blending the sound (I had turned local control off when testing), but wouldn't there be a delay or echo issue? I would think that sound coming in from the laptop will be slightly behind the internal N2 sound? At least that's how it sounded to me, after just testing now.


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Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2680111 10/06/17 12:42 PM
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Congratulations! I think around $8000 is probably a steal on an N2.

I have a 585 and am anxiously awaiting the release of the N2x (if they ever get around to it) as I plan on upgrading.

I live in a condo, a grand is not practical, and the N2 is the best digital I have ever played. Adding .wav format recording is really the only thing I'm waiting for on the N2 (plus the better concert grand sound which I hope rivals my 585).

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2680130 10/06/17 01:38 PM
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Pete14 Offline
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Have you considered checking out the Novus?

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: Pete14] #2680171 10/06/17 04:57 PM
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Belger1900 Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Have you considered checking out the Novus?


How? It's not even on the market?

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2680176 10/06/17 05:26 PM
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Any ideas on what the price might be on the Novus when it comes out? Just curious.


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Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2680182 10/06/17 06:03 PM
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I think the reported price was ~$8000.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: Gombessa] #2680333 10/07/17 01:40 PM
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bSharp(C)yclist Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I think the reported price was ~$8000.

Hmm, I thought it would be a lot more expensive. Might have to buy that ...


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Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2689327 11/14/17 12:07 AM
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I have owned an N1, N3, 182 cm acoustic grand and currently a 210 cm acoustic grand in the past 6 years. I traded up from the digital hybrids because the restricted dynamic range of the action was limiting my progress as a classical pianist. I sat down at a showroom and was blown away by the expressiveness of every decent acoustic grand compared to my N3, that did it. The same was true with excellent full size uprights. Both Yamaha digitals said they have a grand piano action. They don't, they lack hammers to strike strings. Only hammers and strings have the potential to give you a full, wide dynamic range i.e. infinate graduations of loudness, color and expressiveness. If you look back on my posts with the N1 and N3 you can see I tried everything to get a "better" sound- equalizers, subwoofers, baffles. The real problem was an inherent cap on expressiveness of not having hammers striking strings.

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: Sanfrancisco] #2689331 11/14/17 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Sanfrancisco
I have owned an N1, N3, 182 cm acoustic grand and currently a 210 cm acoustic grand in the past 6 years. I traded up from the digital hybrids because the restricted dynamic range of the action was limiting my progress as a classical pianist. I sat down at a showroom and was blown away by the expressiveness of every decent acoustic grand compared to my N3, that did it. The same was true with excellent full size uprights. Both Yamaha digitals said they have a grand piano action. They don't, they lack hammers to strike strings. Only hammers and strings have the potential to give you a full, wide dynamic range i.e. infinate graduations of loudness, color and expressiveness. If you look back on my posts with the N1 and N3 you can see I tried everything to get a "better" sound- equalizers, subwoofers, baffles. The real problem was an inherent cap on expressiveness of not having hammers striking strings.

Have you tried it with a quality VST such as Garritan CFX??

Thanks
Osho


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Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

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Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2689365 11/14/17 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
I had to return to reality yesterday and work. I was able to play some more last night. In regards to gvfarns question, yes changing the sensitivity does change things a bit. Before changing, I was able to get a velocity value of close to 110. On the lighter touch, I was able to get around 120. But wow, you have to hit it hard. I'm guessing that's just how they designed it, perhaps to be more realistic. Or maybe I just haven't learned the proper technique for really loud sounds.


Kawai's grandfeel 2 actioned pianos are similar in that regard. As I think are many of the other higher end DPs.

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: Sanfrancisco] #2689382 11/14/17 09:01 AM
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The real problem was an inherent cap on expressiveness of not having hammers striking strings.[/quote]

The Alpha piano uses real piano hammers that strike string-like sensors. I’ve often wondered if this approach would be better than optical sensors, but the Alpha pianos have yet to show up at dealers for piano players to test and compare.

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: Pete14] #2713747 02/12/18 04:10 PM
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ngk Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
The real problem was an inherent cap on expressiveness of not having hammers striking strings.


The Alpha piano uses real piano hammers that strike string-like sensors. I’ve often wondered if this approach would be better than optical sensors, but the Alpha pianos have yet to show up at dealers for piano players to test and compare. [/quote]
I would not hold my breath. I played the Alpha last Namm in 2017. It did not feel solid, nor did it sound good at all.

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: Pete14] #2713760 02/12/18 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
The Alpha piano uses real piano hammers that strike string-like sensors. I’ve often wondered if this approach would be better than optical sensors, but the Alpha pianos have yet to show up at dealers for piano players to test and compare.

There's an Alpha Piano at Thomann's shop here in Germany. I've recently had my fingers on it, but at 45,000€ it's so far out of my budget, I wasn't really interested. And since I was there to test other pianos, I only gave it a cursory plink. So I can't really say anything about how it sounds and feels.

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2713764 02/12/18 05:06 PM
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I believe the Alpha comes with the Bosendorfer Imperial installed, but they can install any VST per request. I wonder if they installed Pianoteq, and fine tuned it to the action and speaker system, would this be the optimal controller? Still, too expensive, but just wondering.

Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2713770 02/12/18 05:23 PM
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A VST is typically built to run on a full Windows operating system. A digital piano typically includes an embedded operating system which provides only the minimum useful functions : not enough to run a VST.

Then, I would be interested in knowing what makes you think we can make them install any VST. If this information is not published by Alpha, it seems very unlikely to have such a function.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 02/12/18 05:24 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Considering the AvantGrand N2 [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2713773 02/12/18 05:24 PM
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I know I'm probably repeating myself, but I've been playing a large assortment of VSTs with Yamaha studio monitor output (HS7 + HS8 sub) for a couple of years.

Frankly, I can't imagine a better sound than what I'm getting now. Also the dynamic response in my view beats the Yamaha conservatory grand I play at my lessons (granted it's a big grand in a small room - not idea acoustics).

My biggest complete is my midi controller. The action is not good for rapidly repeating notes. (Example: Chopin Op 18 No. 1 - sections that are unplayable at proper speed). And it's really not a grand piano action in any case. Nothing I've tried except the AGs comes close.

My search is for a true grand piano action with the equivalent sound to the VSTs + amp/speakers I'm using now. I don't need all the different modern grand piano sounds (Steinway, Yamaha, Fazioli, Bosendorfer, Bechstein) I have now, just one really good one will do. (I'll keep the midi for historical keyboards / harpsichords, fortepianos).

The N2 is very close, but has a few issues. I was very disappointed that the next gen N2 wasn't announced at NAMM but at this point I'm willing to wait. Just hoping what they end up with is worth the wait. I don't have the right house for an acoustic grand.

I'm going to try the NV10 when it comes to my area. Something tells me I won't be satisfied with it, but I'm going to keep an open mind.

Some magic day, a piano manufacturer will come out with a hybrid DP with a true acoustic action that is fully integrated with 64 bit plugins, but it will be too late for me.

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