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Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Visalia] #2711437
02/04/18 01:32 PM
02/04/18 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AprilE


Nahum, thanks to you especially for what you posted. That is very interesting to me! I understood it! I must be progressing. : )

You're welcome! Only I am very worried if I correctly describe the terminology and order of words ...

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Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Visalia] #2711467
02/04/18 03:29 PM
02/04/18 03:29 PM
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It's good! It's good! The position of privilege that anglophones have in our global society always seems rather unfair to me. Perhaps all us anglophones should have to learn a little Chinese or something, just to balance things out. : )


April
Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Visalia] #2711536
02/04/18 08:17 PM
02/04/18 08:17 PM
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The thing that I find most relevant is that a dominant 7th chord only happens in one key.
So if you are in the key of C and want to go to the key of G, playing a G chord won't do it (feels like the dominant of C still), playing a D chord feels like a shift because the F# is new but it could still go a few places, but playing a D7 really establishes a modulation because it only happens in the key of G.
Using other chords on the way makevthe move smoother, but it's dominant 7th that does the work.

Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Visalia] #2711555
02/04/18 10:22 PM
02/04/18 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Visalia

For goodness sake, I obviously know that. It was the intro that I'm asking about.


You said the chords to the latter piece. One thing I am not is a mind reader. I was trying to help.


Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Nahum] #2711725
02/05/18 05:46 PM
02/05/18 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Nahum
Since modulation is a transition from one tonality to another, it is necessary to give the concept of tonality: a scale from a certain note receiving the function of the main first step - the tonic; and a system of chords built on all seven steps of the scale
Besides the main function of tonic, there are two additional functions: the dominant and subdominant. It is necessary to understand that the function is not a chord, but the property that tonality attaches to the chord in accordance with the scale.
Thus, each of the three functions - T, SD and D refer at least to three chords located at the steps of scale:

T - at I , III , VI

SD - at IV, II , VI

D - at V ,VII ,III

I , IV and V are the main steps of three functional groups of chords. Together they form a chord pattern, called tonal cadence - in the following order: T -SD- D- T . In C major it will be C-F-G(7) -C ; in F major : F - Bb -C(7) - F ; etc.
In tonal music there are no chords without some function; conversely, you can see that one chord can have two functions , and the knowledge of these functions helps to move from any key to any other - ie. create a modulation.
To determine the key, we look for the neighborhood of three functions SD-D-T ; however, the most representative function is the dominant, which sooner or later inevitably leads to the tonic.

Some types of modulations.


1. The simplest is the sudden modulation: the musical fragment ends on the tonic, and you go over suddenly, without any preparation to the tonic of new key. It is not very desirable if there is a vocalist.

2. Prepared modulation: before a new tonic you put a new dominant, or pattern SD -D from new key .

3.Modulation through a common chord for both keys; which is called - pivot chord . For example, you need to switch from C major to Bb major. They have 2 common chords : Dm and F ; through each of them you can go into a new key: C - G(7) - C - F - Dm(III of Bb) - Gm(VI of Bb) - F(7)(V of Bb) -Bb.

4. There are 3 universal chords for switching from any chord to any other and key to any other - 3 diminished 7 : Bdim7 ,C dim7 ,C#dim7 , and all their inversions. Through them, you can go straight to any new tonic, dominant or subdominant; only in many cases you get them in inversions, which requires continuation in a new key to a logical final cadence.

From C major to G# minor : C - F -G -C - Bdim7 - G#m/B(new tonic) - C#m (new subdominant) - D# (new dominant)- G#m .


Thanks Nahum

Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Nahum] #2859615
06/17/19 02:36 PM
06/17/19 02:36 PM
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Visalia Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Nahum
As I understood, the question about modulations is no longer relevant.

I don't think so. He does it here again at the start of this video when he goes from the key of A (key that the crowd are chanting in) to the key of C.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOQFPTtKl44

Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Visalia] #2861507
06/22/19 07:21 AM
06/22/19 07:21 AM
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This is a type of sudden modulation on a common tonic note E (pivot note).

Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Visalia] #2861558
06/22/19 10:02 AM
06/22/19 10:02 AM
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I tend to look to the Classical composers for modulation techniques, and by studying Beethoven I've learned that to modulate from anywhere to anywhere else is pretty much a piece of cake once you grasp a couple of key concepts.

The most basic of these concepts if "foreshadowing". The leading tone of the new key, if it is not present in the old key, is often presented ahead of the modulation in order to give a clue that it's coming, so that when it does, it seems correct.

The modulation that Classical composers were asked to make most often was to the key of the V. In Sonata Form, this modulation is usually required as a major structural component of the harmonic form. Ironically, this fairly common modulation was, IMHO, one of the most awkward ones for them to make convincingly. When you hear them start to hammer on the V of V repeatedly for bar after bar, until you finally start to accept the V of V as the V of I, you can reasonably surmise that you are hearing the major modulation away from the key of the I and to the key of the V that constitutes the "Prodigal Son" template of Sonata Form. This usually happens about 1/4 of the way into a Sonata Form piece.

Beethoven, however, tends to do these type of pedantic modulations less, and comes up with some clever alternatives. One is in the 2nd movement of his 7th string quartet. In this modulation, he simply makes the V chord minor, which relieves this chord of it's dominant characteristics. Then as soon as you hear the V of V, it sounds like the V of I. This is very effective for a slow movement where you can't get away with the other method of beating the modulation into peoples' skulls.


Wes Lachot Design Group
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Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Nahum] #2861565
06/22/19 10:19 AM
06/22/19 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Nahum
This is a type of sudden modulation on a common tonic note E (pivot note).
It was the wrong definition - “common (pivot) pitch between two tonic chords”.

Last edited by Nahum; 06/22/19 10:22 AM.
Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Wes Lachot] #2861630
06/22/19 12:18 PM
06/22/19 12:18 PM
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Chapel Hill, NC
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Originally Posted by Wes Lachot


The most basic of these concepts if "foreshadowing". The leading tone of the new key, if it is not present in the old key, is often presented ahead of the modulation in order to give a clue that it's coming, so that when it does, it seems correct.

The above holds true when modulating "up" the circle of 5ths (to a key with fewer flats or more sharps).

When modulating "down" the circle of 5ths (to keys with more flats or fewer sharps) it's the other guide tone, the 4th of the new key, which must make it's appearance prior to the modulation for proper foreshadowing. This 4th then resolves down the 3rd of the new key's tonic chord. For instance, to modulate from the key of C to the key of F, the B flat needs to be foreshadowed, and will eventually resolve down to an A note when F becomes the new tonic key.

Modulating in the other direction, from the key of C to the key of G, it's the F# note, leading tone of the new key, that must be foreshadowed, and will eventually resolve up to a G note when G becomes the new tonic key.

These principles still hold even when the new key if further away than one sharp or flat.


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Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Visalia] #2861756
06/22/19 04:33 PM
06/22/19 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Visalia

For example, here in 'Funeral for a Friend' we see an Emm7b5 being used (@ 1:15) as a sort of transitional chord to bring it from the key of C minor to A major. Might this be part of a musical technique, how the song changes key, but yet it doesn't feel random?

You are wrong. The "pivot"chord at 1:10 (it's not at 1:15 as you say) is Dm7(b5) and not Emm7b5 (this is absolutely wrong) as you said.
Dm7(b5) is a chord with subdominant minor function in the key of C minor. The exspected chord to follow is G7(b9).
G7(b9) is the dominant chord of the foregoing key of C minor containing in itself a diminished seventh chord which is Bo7.
The Bo7 chord equals the Do7, Fo7 and G#o7 chord. Elton changes the Bo7 chord for the G#o7 chord.
Because all these 4 diminished chords have different enharmonic spellings this kind of modulation is called "enharmonic modulation".
Instead of G7(b9), which stands for Bo7, Elton takes G#o7 which standes for E7(b9) which is the dominant of the following tonal center "A".


PS
There is no improvisation without care in Elton's playing. If you improvise without care it sounds [censored]. Elton's playing sounds ok to my ears.
If you are interested I could explain the 2nd example too.

Re: Techniques to change to any key when improvising [Re: Visalia] #2879261
08/13/19 03:23 PM
08/13/19 03:23 PM
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There is a guy on You Tube called Warren Mc Pherson. Piano withWarren. He is a gospel teacher and I rate him highly. He has a very good video on modulation

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