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Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On #2711168
02/03/18 11:09 AM
02/03/18 11:09 AM
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The two other threads for the Novus NV10 (following the preview and release announcements) have been filled with lots of speculation about the upcoming product, and especially lots of controversy about its US pricing, so I thought it might be a good idea to open a new thread to post actual hands on experiences with the actual released product, and as a place to discuss those impressions.

Last edited by JoBert; 02/03/18 11:14 AM.
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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711170
02/03/18 11:12 AM
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Today I spent about 1.5 hours in Thomann's shop, testing the Kawai Novus NV10 and, for comparison, some other digitals and acoustics. Here are a few of my impressions from that session.

TL;DR: I liked the NV10 well enough to have ordered one (or rather, to not have cancelled my preorder - but more about that below). smile

First of all, some background so that you know what you can expect from this "review": This is going to be more of a stream of consciousness write-up than a proper structured review. Also, I'm not an expert. Neither of digital pianos nor of acoustic pianos. Also not of sound systems or sound reproductions. So you won't find a detailed analysis about how every minute property of the action compares to every other digital (and acoustic) action out there. Neither anything about how the speaker/amp system is "heavy in bass" or "lacking in certain frequencies in the treble" or "overemphasizes the G4 when also playing a G-minor chord in the C3 octave", or how "the modeled harmonics for the C4 are rather a tad too sharp", or any such details.

Oh, and this might get a bit longish (<- understatement of the year!), as I tend to ramble, but you already saw my TL;DR, so that's all you need to know if you aren't up for a wall of text. wink

Today being a Saturday, I went to the shop rather early, to beat the crowd. Which was a good thing, because I had more than an hour of relatively quiet and undisturbed testing time, before around 11:00h or so, when the ambient noise picked up a lot and made further testing almost impossible (even with headphones - at least with my open backed ones).

To get sort of a baseline, I first played the Avant Grand N1 for a bit. It was how I remembered it. I.e. I didn't like it too much. Mainly because of the sound (which is of course a bit dated by now), but also because of the action feel. I always have problems on the Avant Grands, especially in fast passages.

Then I went over to the Kawai CA98, the successor of the CA97 that I currently have. I deliberately selected the SK-EX from the sound mode engine, which is the same as the SK-EX in my CA97, and as expected, I felt right at home. No wonder, as the CA98 has the same GFII action as my CA97.
Then I switched over to the new SK-EK rendering engine in pianist mode that the Novus also has. And yes, I think it does indeed sound even better than the "old" Hi-XL SK-EX that I am used to and like very well. So on that front, things were looking good in respect to how I would like the NV10.
Although I must say, if it were only about an upgrade from the CA97 to the CA98, I would pass at this time. The new pianist mode sound is very good, but the previous sound mode sound is also already very good, and just for the new sound mode, I wouldn't drop another 1500-1800 EUR (depending on how much I can get for my used CA97).

With that baseline established, I finally sat down at the Novus NV10.

First impression: Thank heavens, I do like the look in real life too. I did like how it looked on the photos and in the videos, but was unsure how my impression would be in the real world. I think it's very sleek looking. High polish black piano finish, understated design, unobtrusive speakers on top.

Second impression: The action is way different than the GFII in my CA97 (and the CA98)! At least to me. I have practically zero experience playing on grands. My whole piano education in my youth was on acoustic uprights only, and since then it was digitals all the way. That's also why having a grand piano was always a dream of mine and why I'm now so interested in this newest generation of hybrids, as it can finally get me as close to a grand as is possible with a digital (and for other reasons I actually prefer a digital over an acoustic grand). So I didn't really know what to expect. Remember how I said I didn't like the N1 too much because of the action feel? Turns out a good bit of that may have been because I'm simply not used to a grand action!
So what was so different? The action, at least of this particular unit, has a very noticeable pressure point at the escapement. Much, much more than the simulated "escapement" of the GFII. Actually, even a bit more than the same Millennium III action in the Kawai GL30 and GL50 pianos that Thomann has in their show room, and that I tested for comparison. I wonder why there is such a noticeable difference? Maybe because the NV10 was brand new, and has not been played a lot yet, while the GL30 and GL50 have likely been in that show room for quite a while by now? Maybe the GLs are better regulated (or regulated worse - I don't know which of the two is "better")? Maybe there's a difference between different manufacturing batches of the Millennium III? [Side Note: I noticed counter weights visible in the sides of the bass keys of the NV10, that I don't remember seeing on the GLs, although I forgot to explicitly check for them - maybe that's also a sign that the actions are subtly different?].
I also noticed that the action has a lot of "bounce" (for want of a better word). Meaning, that if you press a key and release it quickly, it swings back up, actually going slightly higher than its resting position, then swinging back down again, a bit lower than its resting position, up again, etc. in an oscillating pattern before (after a very short time, i.e. a fracture of a second) it finally rests still in its normal position. This I made sure to check on the GLs, and yes, on those the keys had the same "bounce back" behavior as on the NV10. So regarding that, the actions are comparable.

But what does all of this mean regarding how it plays? Surprisingly, to me, I got used to this different feel quite quickly and I had the feeling that I could control the action quite well. In contrast to the N1 action that I tried at first, I could play the fast passages, and fast ornaments, very well on the NV10 action (although that might have been because by now I was played in, while I tested the N1 "cold"). I got the feeling that the runs and ornaments were more under control and more even than what I usually manage on the CA97. Don't know if that is wishful thinking though...
So yes, this grand action felt quite different for me, but it turned out that the difference was "good" - essentially the whole reason why I'm excited about these hybrids, giving me a grand action without having to deal with the disadvantages of an actual grand. It would be a shame if there weren't a noticeable difference to the GFII, because then I could just as well stay with the CA97.
Actually, that was my main "fear" beforehand, that it would turn out that the GFII does indeed simulate a grand action so well, that the difference to the Millennium III action is so minute, that the expense to upgrade to the NV10 is simply not justified. Well, that "fear" was unfounded. The action feels quite different (although I still think the GFII is a great action too) and my play tests showed that, at least for me, that difference did indeed give me the feeling that I had better control of the action. But I could also understand if someone else comes to a totally different conclusion. I think this is highly subjective.

BTW, I quickly tried the action of the Yamaha CLP 685, as that action has been described in a quite controversial fashion here in the forum (some liking it a lot, others not at all) and I must say that I'm firmly in the camp of not liking it. It has a very stiff pressure point (static weight?) that must be overcome to depress a key, which felt very unnatural to me, especially in comparison to the N1, NV10 and the acoustic GLs that I tested.
The one action that I would probably still prefer over the Novus action was the Renner action in the 45,000€ Alpha Piano that they also had in the show room. smile

One other aspect that I tested (or tried to test) was of course the sound via speakers. Some forum members have expressed doubt that with the given specs (for speakers and amps) the Novus may not be adequately equipped to reproduce a grand piano sound properly.
This was unfortunately very difficult to test in the public show room. First of all, because I totally hate playing in front of strangers. Secondly, because the room acoustics are all but ideal. And third, there was a lot of interfering noise (other people playing acoustics and digitals), especially when the shop started to get more crowded.
From what I could test, I thought it sounded very good. smile But take my evaluation with a pinch of salt. As I said in the intro, I'm not an expert. I'm also not a hifi aficionado. When others complain that the CA97/CA98 with the soundboard sounds boomy/boxy, I can only respond that to me it sounds perfectly fine, excellent even (I still prefer playing my CA97 on speakers/soundboard over playing it with headphones). So what sounds "very good" in my ears may well sound way different in yours. wink
One test I did specifically, after QuinnGold wrote about her tests at NAMM 2018, that she thought the max volume on the NV10 was probably a bit on the low side, was to test how "loud" the piano would get at fff. I especially compared this to the loudness of the acoustics. I made only a very basic test, of course, by simply playing a bass chord at about ff force (I didn't want to lean in all my weight to go for fff or more, because of the other people there). Compared to the upright acoustics (I tested the larger Yamahas and Kawais, and even a very nice 20,000€ Blüthner concert upright), the NV10 had no problem matching the volume. I didn't even have to max out the volume knob for this. I would say that it would also be a match for the GL30. Which leaves me convinced that for the intended use in our living room, the volume of the NV10 will do just fine.
BTW, the subwoofer in the base (behind the pedal rods) manages to impart a nice vibration to the pedals and keys, when playing bass to midrange keys at f/ff. That is a small but nice thing that for me always adds that little touch of realism when playing my CA97 with the soundboard, and I'm happy that the NV10 does have this too, at least to some degree. But the final verdict on how I actually like the speaker sound (and the achievable volume) will have to happen when I test the Novus in my own home.

All in all, after my test today, I'm 90-95% sure that I will be very happy with the Novus. These final percent will have to be confirmed when testing it here, at home.

And under this consideration, it is a good thing that I have already ordered the NV10, so that I can indeed test it at home. smile

I ordered it online, BTW, so that gives me a 30 day window during which I can return the piano for a full refund, no questions asked. So if it should turn out that here at home I actually don't like it, then I still have that option open to me.

I did not order at Thomann though. While I appreciate that I could test the piano there, they currently do not have it in storage, so I would have to wait for the next batch, which is not expected before the end of the month. Instead I ordered at a different online shop. That's where I fear I'm now outing me as a bit crazy, because I actually ordered (and paid for) the NV10 a few days ago already, on last Wednesday, before I had even seen it with my own eyes, let alone tested it. crazy
I thought I was super clever with that. I had noticed that Thomann had the NV10 as "available immediately" last Tuesday, but on Wednesday it was already set back to "available on Feb. 28th". I figured, that they probably got two or three units delivered, put one into their show room and sold the other one or two. And if Thomann, the biggest player in the field, only gets two or three units of the first batch, then most likely all other sellers would also get a similar small number. Most of which would end up as show room units, so if I wanted to snag one of the first batch, and not wait until March or later, I would have to be quick.
Well, there was this other online shop that offered the NV10 too, with two advantages over Thomann: First, they gave 2% discount if paid in advance (via wire transfer) and second, while Thomann (and many others) only do curb side deliveries (and you would have to pay extra for more), this seller offered a "premium delivery" by a specialized piano mover firm for free, which includes delivery to the final placement site, which is important with a 130kg piano (up two flights of stairs in our case), and assembly. This premium delivery however has the drawback that it is supposed to take about 1 to 2 weeks from the moment the piano is available at their facility (depending on how far away you are and when the piano movers are next in your vicinity). So overly clever as I were, I figured, that I could just order the piano on Wednesday (and wire the advance payment to make sure it is reserved for me) and then test the piano on Saturday at Thomann, and if it turned out that I actually didn't like it, I would have lots of time to cancel my purchase before it even leaves their facility.
Well, this worked perfectly in so far, as I did indeed manage to reserve one of the few available units of the first batch for me. But it worked a bit too perfectly, actually. blush As it turned out, my guess that each vendor was getting only one or two units was spot on. When I called them yesterday afternoon, to confirm that my advance payment had made it through (which it had), they did tell me that they had indeed received exactly two units from Kawai. One of which they were just then in the process of setting up in their show room, and the other was the one that I had just bought. Which they had not even removed from the truck, but had simply sent on on its way to me. Argh! And I thought I had lots of time to maybe cancel the delivery after I tested the piano today. Turns out, I was wrong. Already yesterday, just one hour after I spoke to the seller, the piano movers called me to arrange for a delivery date.

So I'm now having my NV10 delivered the day after tomorrow, on Monday afternoon. Which I think makes me one of the first persons in Germany (and probably the world, excluding Japan?) to have the Novus at home. A distinction that makes me a bit excited, but also definitely a bit nervous. eek

Last edited by JoBert; 02/03/18 04:31 PM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711178
02/03/18 11:35 AM
02/03/18 11:35 AM
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Thanks a lot. And please do keep us informed about your adventure it turned out to be.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711180
02/03/18 11:43 AM
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Congrats!! You're brave to buy it before looking at it laugh I'm looking forward to trying it in a few weeks here. Should be interesting. I've never played on a Kawai piano before. Only Yamaha at home and at the music school, and then the occasional Steinway for recitals.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711187
02/03/18 12:03 PM
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Thanks JoBert. I'm looking forward to the NV10 and congrats to your purchase. smile


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711191
02/03/18 12:32 PM
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Did you try the Alpha Piano?
This is the first time I’ve heard of the Alpha Piano being available for purchase.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2711195
02/03/18 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Did you try the Alpha Piano?
This is the first time I’ve heard of the Alpha Piano being available for purchase.

Not really. I only played a few chords.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711198
02/03/18 01:01 PM
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Huge congrats! I expect to play the one my dealer is getting in soon, and will report my impressions then. I’ve owned the AvantGrand N1 now for the last 4 years so I’m not expecting big differences in feel, but I am expecting improvements in the speaker system (although the N1 has a superb onboard speaker system), and improvements in the sound engine. The new SK-EX and SK-5 sounds I’ve played and heard on the CS11and CA98 are simply superb. Kawai, IMHO, has now leap frogged all other brands built in sample sets and Roland’s SN modeling, which just doesn’t feel alive, contrary to the authentic behavior of modeling. Kawai has done an exceptional job in the sound department. As much as I love my N1, I’m particularly excited to get the MP11SE.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711204
02/03/18 01:42 PM
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Good strategy JoBert. Supplies look limited for a while so just getting a NV10 is not possible for most; negotiating price is tough when there is virtually no supply but some strong interest.

Looking forward to your impressions at home.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711227
02/03/18 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JoBert

The one action that I would probably still prefer over the Novus action was the Renner action in the 45,000€ Alpha Piano that they also had in the show room. smile

Wait, what?! The Alpha piano actually exists and can be bought? It's been hiding in vapourware land for so long, nobody has even mentioned seeing it. But 45,000€ - yikes! Maybe the company decided to shift to money-laundering as a business model...

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711230
02/03/18 03:42 PM
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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711234
02/03/18 03:56 PM
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Who's gonna pay 50 large for a digital piano? ROFL

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711243
02/03/18 04:39 PM
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You can then buy the Sennheiser HE1 headphones to be used with the Alpha Piano.

Last edited by clothearednincompo; 02/03/18 04:40 PM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711248
02/03/18 04:53 PM
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Why a hydraulic system? Why have Porsche design it? Why the wireless pedals?
This should’ve been a bare-bones hybrid piano with nothing but the essentials (good speakers, software, and a conventional upright/mini-grand design) surrounding the concert grand action.
The sensor mechanism is yet to be proven, but it seems like a good approach (sensors act as strings). The real felt hammers strike the “strings” as they would on a real piano. This, I truly like.
The hydraulic mechanism could come in handy if you need to replace a flat tire, but other than that, I think an adjustable bench would the trick if the piano sits to low/high for some players. I wonder if Alpha is aware of adjustable benches: they go up and down, and use some form of mini-hydraulic mechanism.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711352
02/04/18 04:21 AM
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I just remembered one thing that I forgot in my write-up: The damper weight mechanism. With the NV10 currently the only digital piano that has this, I was of course curious to test it. Well, for me personally, I can say that it indeed behaves just like it did on the acoustic GLs that I tried. Meaning that both on the GLs and the NV10, I don't really notice the key weight change (with depressed damper pedal) while playing, but if I explicitly look for it by depressing a single key, there is a noticeable change in how the key press feels, and that change is so similar between the NV10 and the GLs, that I can't really say that I can feel a difference between the two. So that seems to work as designed.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711355
02/04/18 04:29 AM
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Although I appreciate the damper pedal thing, it's just one of those things piano manufacturers would have loved to not have. It doesn't do anything helpful to your playing, it's an artifact coming from the way piano works. Same as escapement. And keyboard shifting to one side when you press the una corda pedal. But I realize hybrid instruments are meant to replicate the real thing as close as possible, including artifacts so it's OK I guess.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2711378
02/04/18 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Although I appreciate the damper pedal thing, it's just one of those things piano manufacturers would have loved to not have. It doesn't do anything helpful to your playing, it's an artifact coming from the way piano works. Same as escapement. And keyboard shifting to one side when you press the una corda pedal. But I realize hybrid instruments are meant to replicate the real thing as close as possible, including artifacts so it's OK I guess.

I actually agree. If the acoustic piano technicians would have been able to remove these idiosyncrasies, they most likely would have.

However, they didn’t, so now they exist in acoustic pianos. And imo, if a digital piano strives to simulate an acoustic, then this simulation shouldn’t stop with simulating the tone, decay, harmonics and what not. It should also include the touch and feel and, yes, also the idiosyncrasies. At least as well as possible for the given budget.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711382
02/04/18 08:15 AM
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Curious you dislike the N1 action. I have tested it and was very found of it. It is quite firm. Perhaps that’s what you dislike.

Unfortunately, my nearest piano shop has Casio, Roland, Yamaha but no Kawai. I will not test the NV10 soon.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 02/04/18 08:16 AM.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711388
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It seems like manufacturers differ in terms of what ‘idiosyncrasies’ are worth replicating. For example, Casio omitted the simulated escapement effect, and still they claim that their Celviano’s note-repetition surpasses that of a real piano. Of course, they’re not using a real grand piano action, but still it’s a step in that direction.
Kawai included a damper mechanism and -naturally occurring- escapement. Alpha also has real escapement, but omitted the damper mechanism. The new sensor system in the Alpha actually requires hammers to strike string-like sensors. So yes, the Alpha has felt hammers (I assume these will need to be replaced and/or maintained at some point). Perhaps in the case of the Alpha the hammers are essential; although I wonder if using a different material for the hammer heads (synthetic) would’ve been more practical and therefore maintenance free.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711389
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A local US dealer got a Novus in and I spent a good two hours playing it yesterday.

I wanted to second just about everything Jobert said, it's a good description of the piano.

A few random thoughts (more detail to come later):

1. The UI did seem to crash and reset every time I plugged headphones into the 1/4" jack, but the piano kept playing fine while this was happening.

2. The action is truly a grand action. I have some regular experience on grands now and I will say it is more or less indistinguishable from a GL-30 or GX. What it doesn't feel like is a light, airy action on an Shigeru or Bosendorfer 214/280. In terms of hybrids, I think this is truly authentic, and the new gold standard by a country mile. Could it be better? Sure, but it is like the MP11 is to slabs (nothing else on the mass market comes close right now).

3. Feel of the pivot point, or playing in the back of the keys is very similar to the GF2 action or Yamaha Grand Touch. As expected it's a very long pivot, and I don't feel I need anything more in this respect.

4. Key surface is acrylic for whites, matte sanded for black keys, exactly like Grand Feel I.

5. Interesting trivia; each keystick is individually numbered and you can see the numbering when the fallboard is half open/closed.

6. I've spent a similar amount of time with the Avent Grands before and like Jobert, I was surprised to not really care for the action. It is stiffer than a typical Yamaha Grand like a C3X, the keydip felt shallow, and I came away thinking it felt way more like an NU1 action than any grand I have ever played.

7. I didn't intend to spend a lot of time with the speakers on but I actually did. They seemed to be plenty loud, and I never felt I had to move them to max volume. There is a directed immediacy that feels more like an N2 than an N3/acoustic (more like speakers pointed towards the player than directed outward to the audience).

8. The 20k price from NAMM isn't a thing. All the dealers i talked to who have ordered the nv10 have been consistent even before NAMM on price being in the $12k ballpark (some say a little more, some a little less) so I think the higher list price is just a way to display a big discount to the buyer.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711390
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After playing this instrument, and compared to AvantGrand, what would you consider to be a fair street price?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2711391
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Keysticks on most pianos, digital and acoustic, are numbered!

Originally Posted by Pete14
It seems like manufacturers differ in terms of what ‘idiosyncrasies’ are worth replicating. For example, Casio omitted the simulated escapement effect, and still they claim that their Celviano’s note-repetition surpasses that of a real piano. Of course, they’re not using a real grand piano action, but still it’s a step in that direction.
Kawai included a damper mechanism and -naturally occurring- escapement. Alpha also has real escapement, but omitted the damper mechanism. The new sensor system in the Alpha actually requires hammers to strike string-like sensors. So yes, the Alpha has felt hammers (I assume these will need to be replaced and/or maintained at some point). Perhaps in the case of the Alpha the hammers are essential; although I wonder if using a different material for the hammer heads (synthetic) would’ve been more practical and therefore maintenance free.


The celviano isn't really a hybrid though, note repetition seems to be a bit of a marketing thing as well. If anything cheaper DP actions tend to be better as the static weight of the system is proportionally greater than the overall inertia which means a faster return.

With the alpha, the sensors seem to be pretty soft, I doubt they will cut into the felt like piano strings too. Also even if the ends eventually get flattened a bit I'm not sure that makes much difference, the alpha is simply picking up velocity. Worn hammers affect tone on acoustics.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Frédéric L] #2711392
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Curious you dislike the N1 action. I have tested it and was very found of it. It is quite firm. Perhaps that’s what you dislike.

As I hinted at in my write up, it could have been my fault, not the action’s. It could be that I’m simply not used to a real grand action, so it “felt” strange. And I played “cold”, so that could also have been the reason for my problems in fast passages. I could have tested again, but I’m not really interested in the Avant Grands right now. They are outdated and too expensive compared with the NV10 (even the outdated N2 is still 2600€ more than the NV10 and I expect that the eventual N2X will be even more expensive - and it doesn’t even exist yet).

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711393
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I felt $12k street, give or take, would be well-positioned in the market. You can always see if your dealer has room to move on that, too.

If you really like the action of the AG N1/N2, don't mind the old sound engine (zero resonance, etc.) And can get them at discount, then the NV10 will seem expensive and not worth it.

But if you felt the AG action wasn't for you, the question is if you would pay a ~10-20% premium for an action you really like and modern sound engine, and that might be an outright bargain.

Real and sale prices on these hybrids vary so much that I suspect there will be some people getting NV10s for cheaper than they can get an N2 locally.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711395
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Originally Posted by Pete14
After playing this instrument, and compared to AvantGrand, what would you consider to be a fair street price?


Good question. It will be 12K here in the US to start I think. At least one dealer said that to me. Is it worth 4K more over the AvantGrand N2? I guess that depends on the individual. It's certainly newer, has better digital technology I guess. The action? Won't know until I try it when it comes in the store. This can be tricky because we often like things not because we like them, because we want to like them and rationalize reasons to do so.

I really like the action of the N2, it's consistent with what I practice with at the music school. But the school seems biased towards Yamaha. So when I go to test the NV10, I may be biased and try to find reasons to not like it, to justify the Yamaha I have now laugh


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2711412
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
What it doesn't feel like is a light, airy action on an Shigeru or Bosendorfer 214/280. Could it be better? Sure


OK what you are trying to say here is that the action of the Novus is kinda heavy and it's not so enjoyable to play. Why can't they make a pleasant, light action ? It's not like they couldn't do it, technically.

Last edited by Cosi; 02/04/18 11:21 AM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711415
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I can't speak for you, but that isn't what I am saying at all.

If you play on a GL, GX, a Yamaha CxX, a M&H, or anything else, you may absolutely love the Novus action (I actually do love it, it's downright fantastic). I just happen to have the privilege of playing some amazing grands that are far it of my league, and note that the Novus doesn't feel identical to those (why should it?).

I don't think at all that it is "practice" grade action, unless a 7ft GX-5 is only good as a practice instrument?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711419
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I just edited my message. Practice is not a good argument, my teacher have a Wilh.Steinberg grand and the action is very heavy, and it's not her practice instrument. But she "had" to choose a heavy action because she plays on many different instruments for her concerts. I never played Yamaha or Kawai grands, only the Schimmel of my previous teacher years ago which was kinda sluggish, and the Steinberg of my present teacher and I'm not a fan, this is very heavy for me, but good for control. I just need to find a Novus somewhere to try it I guess, just hoping it will not be too stiff and heavy for me.

Last edited by Cosi; 02/04/18 12:02 PM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2711423
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Originally Posted by Gombessa

6. I've spent a similar amount of time with the Avent Grands before and like Jobert, I was surprised to not really care for the action. It is stiffer than a typical Yamaha Grand like a C3X, the keydip felt shallow, and I came away thinking it felt way more like an NU1 action than any grand I have ever played.


I think that's a very interesting point. Yamaha have not, to my knowledge at least, stated a specific grand mechanism from which their AvantGrand action is taken. That does make me suspect that it was put together specifically for the AvantGrands, and as such you have to question the extent to which it is a real grand action. The NV10 explicitly uses the Millennium III action, and from your description, does indeed feel like a GL-30 acoustic grand which uses that action.

From what you and Jobert have said, it seems that Kawai have once again taken the lead on keyboard action. Now they just need to sort out marketing, distribution and electronics. laugh


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2711431
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Seems rather unlikely that yamaha would have made a new parts for a line as small as the AGs. I can't see why it wouldn't be the same action as used in their grands.

However the keysticks on the AGs are pretty short, plus the hammer/counterweight balance might be adjusted slightly to account for the lack of dampers. The regulation may be different too.

Similarly with the top end shigeru the action should be the same, however on a 9ft EX the key-sticks are necessarily rather long and SKs may well be regulated to a more exacting standard. Particularly a hybrid like a novus will be expected to last years without maintenance and as such the regulation cannot be as exact as a piano that is going to get attention before every performance, but the same applies to smaller 'every day' grands as well.

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