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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744849
06/16/18 09:58 AM
06/16/18 09:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 648
Southern California
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Picking up a topic from earlier in the thread: The (undamped strings resonances) "ringing" of the SK-EX rendering engine (pianist mode) that some people have a problem with.

I was reminded of that when I watched Holger's YouTube video where he plays his composition "Stars" on his Steingraeber concert grand. Check it out (you can find the link in his signature above), especially the beginning of the piece (from 0:20 in the video).

There's a very similar ringing from the Steingraeber. Actually, I think it is even more pronounced than in Kawai's pianist mode (although that may partially be a recording artefact).


The first time I played his recording I did not notice it. Just heard how beautiful the song is. However, listening for it this time, I hear it also. It is more pronounced, as you say, although to me it sounds "fuller" and maybe softer? I don't think I would hear it live, but consider it a headphone irritant.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: arc7urus] #2745111
06/17/18 01:31 PM
06/17/18 01:31 PM
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Portland, OR, USA
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
Excellent setup Osho!

What software are you using for reading the scores on the PC? A standard PDF reader/editor or something more elaborate?

Another question: have you measured the latency while using CFX or PianoTeq with your setup? If you play in Pianist Mode in the NV10 and feed the audio from your PC into the line-in do you notice any delay when the internal and VST sound are playing simultaneously?


I am just using Adobe Acrobat Reader - it works well in the full screen mode with touch screen input. I don't usually make notes on the score - but I think there is capability to do that (perhaps with an add-on purchase).

I haven't measured the latency while using CFX or Pianoteq. Your experiment sounds interesting - I haven't done that but will try it out and report back.

Thanks,
Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2745113
06/17/18 01:42 PM
06/17/18 01:42 PM
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Portland, OR, USA
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

When I slammed this together in a single day, had the general feeling I had even overkilled the solution given what little I wanted to do then. With the passing of a few months, I now have regrets I had lacked ambition then. I have now realized that my aspirations for my little piano "setup", from those inchoate thoughts of 4 months ago, have now grown but my original hardware choices have not, so reading your part list leaves me envious and salivating. I had not future-proofed myself even by a few months! For example, I am think now of adding a virtual piano like Pianoteq or Garritan CFX, and using my DP as a midi-controller, but I haven't even bothered because I sort of feel that the Intel Celeron J3455 in the Mini PC will just fall down on the job and since I am OCD, I know any lags and other audio artifacts would drive me nuts, like lags in the previous release of Piano Marvel's app had done.

I think your setup will run Pianoteq just fine. Intel Celeron is a lot more powerful processor than Raspberry Pi/Arduio on which some folks have run Pianoteq.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Can you provide a bit more tech info on the computer itself that you brewed up for those that may want to follow your footsteps? I assume that is it sitting against the wall behind the pedals? Would you mind sharing your specific component list/brands you went with?

Re: info on component list/brands, if you look at my earlier post and search for each of those strings in Amazon - it should popup the exact item I ordered. If someone is interested, I can post the exact links for the items.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I assume that is it sitting against the wall behind the pedals?

Yes, you are right - it is sitting against the wall right behind the panel that is behind the pedals. I routed all the cables from the room corner side - so most cables are out of sight.


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: mcoll] #2745115
06/17/18 01:49 PM
06/17/18 01:49 PM
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Portland, OR, USA
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Originally Posted by mcoll
I'm a little late to the party, but for the touchscreen, I have seen this recently and it seems like a very good option:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324921-REG/dell_p2418ht_24_touchscreen_fhd.html

The size is great for displaying sheet music, I like the fact that it's matte, and maybe it can be used with the music stand folded down, either on top of the stand, or behind/under the stand (I'm not sure how much room there is left behind the stand when it's folded down). Bonus points - maybe the logo can be removed or covered with some matte gaffer tape smile

That would be a great monitor for sheet music/DAW. I have Dell's slightly smaller (21.5 inch) monitor - and find that is plenty big for sheet music in landscape mode.

Placement wise, it may be easiest to remove the monitor stand and put just the display panel directly against the music stand. This still allows music stand to be used for regular paper sheet music.

Osho


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Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Tyr] #2745120
06/17/18 02:12 PM
06/17/18 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by Jaytee-66
Originally Posted by JoBert
Jaytee, one last thing you could try to tame the ringing a bit: One of the few adjustments I made is in the Sound Settings menu, where I have set Tone Control to User with Mid-high at -1 and High at -2. Maybe such a setting would appeal to you too?


I'll give that a try ... that may also reduce the brightness in the upper registers, although I have gotten used to that now.


I had the same problem with the kawai sound in general. I'd owned the CLP-685 before and loved the CFX voice so much, that every other rendering sounded awkward. Now i like the SK-EX a lot, just because it sounds way more alive and natural compared to the yamaha sounds.


My NV10 is back to the way it was, with the ringing, but I'm used to it now (and when it's not there at all, I actually miss it). Just spent an hour working through some more of my current project (Bach Italian Concerto) and still very much convinced I made the right decision purchasing this. The action and piano sound in pianist mode is just superb, and I've had this for over a month, so it's not just infatuation or me trying to justify my purchase.

I do have a key that's making a weird sticking noise, so I'll have to have a tech out soon to fix that. Something you'd encounter with an acoustic from time to time as well.

I probably won't be posting a lot more on here as I don't have much more to say - other than still very happy.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745242
06/18/18 06:47 AM
06/18/18 06:47 AM
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Germany
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On saturday the kawai tech applied some silicone oil on the pedal mechanism which doesn't helped much. The creaking sound returned shortly after the tech had left the house. I got a bit mad about this and opened the Novus by myself to regulate the mechanism again. After turning the pedal rod some degrees the sound disappeared.

Gosh... i wish it's gone now!

Last edited by Tyr; 06/18/18 06:47 AM.

Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Lite & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Tyr] #2745245
06/18/18 06:58 AM
06/18/18 06:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,024
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
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Tyr, do you have the squeak at the bottom or the top of the pedal rod (or both)?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745251
06/18/18 07:34 AM
06/18/18 07:34 AM
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At the bottom. The noise was occuring when the rod is pressing against the felt insert. The rod is moving a bit forward during pushing the pedal down. Maybe the rod is crooked a bit to one side.

Last edited by Tyr; 06/18/18 07:34 AM.

Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Lite & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745269
06/18/18 08:26 AM
06/18/18 08:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,024
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
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Yes, I know this forward movement from my piano. This slight movement is normal I think, and not necessarily a sign of a crooked rod, because the geometrics of the system simply have this effect. Here's a diagram for illustration:
Code
                                                                                                           |   |
                                                                                              Pedal rod    |   |
                                                          left = pedal depressed (rod slightly forward)--> |   |
                                                          right = pedal normal (rod slightly backward)---- |-->|
                                                                                                           |   |
                                                                                                           |   |
                                                                                                           |   |
                                                                                                         ---   |
                                                                                                   -----/      |
                                                                                             -----/            |
                                                                                       -----/                  |
                                                                                 -----/                        |
 Front of Pedal                                    Pedal Pivot             -----/                              |
                                                                     -----/                                    |
                                                        +----+ -----/                                          |
   -----------------------------------------------------|----|--------------------------------------------------
  Pedal in normal position                         -----+----+
                                             -----/                                                   Back of Pedal
                                       -----/
                                 -----/
                           -----/
                     -----/
               -----/
         -----/
      --/
    Pedal in depressed position

The more the pedal is depressed, the more the rod moves forward (closer to the pivot).

So if your rod squeaks on the felt on the backside of the rod, that means that the rod touches the felt in the normal pedal position, and squeaks along it (and starts to lose touch) when the pedal is pressed.
Or if the rod squeaks on the felt on the front of the rod, that means that the rod does not touch the felt (or only slightly so) in the normal position, and squeaks along the felt when the pedal is pressed and the rod moves forward and closer to the felt.

I don't know which situation applies in your case, but maybe this is helpful somehow?

I would try softening the felt on the side where the rod touches it with a suitable tool (a strong thin needle or something like that).

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745271
06/18/18 08:32 AM
06/18/18 08:32 AM
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Mine does the forward movement too, afaik it’s normal, as JoBert explained.

I get a creaking sound every so often from the top of the rod. I put some wd40 on the rod and it helped for a few weeks. When it returned, I found that I can just move the rod a bit so that the top doesn't rub so much against the felt, which seems to have (permanently?) fixed it. I'm not sure if you can do this on the bottom though, since the rod sits in a tight sleeve/notch.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745304
06/18/18 11:20 AM
06/18/18 11:20 AM
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Germany
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Tyr Offline
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The movement isn't an issue for me. It was squeaking when the rod is touching the felt on the front side when pressing the pedal. As i said, i had turned th rod a bit (45°) and the sqeaking is gone currently. I hope it will stay a while. smile


Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Lite & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Tyr] #2745311
06/18/18 11:51 AM
06/18/18 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyr
The movement isn't an issue for me. It was squeaking when the rod is touching the felt on the front side when pressing the pedal. As i said, i had turned th rod a bit (45°) and the sqeaking is gone currently. I hope it will stay a while. smile


Turning the rod is probably a temporary fix. As you noted the squeaking comes from the rod rubbing against the compacted felt when the rod moves forward. My thinking is that contact with the felt probably "polishes" the rod at that point, removing any natural oil (just stuff floating around the household) that would lubricate the movement, which brings out the squeak. By turning the rod, you're exposing a "dirtier" section of the rod to the felt, which will reduce the squeaking until it gets buffed clean again by the felt.

However, if you can move the rod a bit (pushing forward or backward a minuscule amount), you might lessen the compression when the pedal moves so that it brushes against the felt with less pressure. Alternatively, as the DP ages, it's reasonable to assume the felt will naturally compact more with pedal usage and the pressure will reduce on its own.

Just something to try if the squeaking comes back (which hopefully it won't)!


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745334
06/18/18 01:00 PM
06/18/18 01:00 PM
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Milano
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WD40 is for "water displacement" rather than lubrication. That is one reason the lubrication was so short-lived.

Not sure what these felts are made of or current best practices here. Silicone or powdered teflon (PTFE) might be used but I wouldn't want to breathe in PTFE to be frank.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745763
06/19/18 11:40 PM
06/19/18 11:40 PM
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So, how much did everyone pay for your NV10? I am thinking of putting in an offer of $9999 - it's currently listed at $11.5. Is this reasonable?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: computerpro3] #2745772
06/20/18 01:55 AM
06/20/18 01:55 AM
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Germany
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Originally Posted by computerpro3
So, how much did everyone pay for your NV10? I am thinking of putting in an offer of $9999 - it's currently listed at $11.5. Is this reasonable?

I don't know the US prices, so I don't know if it's reasonable, but:
$9999 is a psychological threshold price that is supposed to trick the buyer (you) into thinking, that the price is cheaper than $10000, when in fact it isn't really.
But you want to do the reverse. You want to trick the seller into selling the piano as cheap as possible, without realizing it. So you should offer $10000 instead. Only one dollar more for you, but for the seller, $10000 looks much better than $9999.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745781
06/20/18 03:20 AM
06/20/18 03:20 AM
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Portland, OR, USA
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by computerpro3
So, how much did everyone pay for your NV10? I am thinking of putting in an offer of $9999 - it's currently listed at $11.5. Is this reasonable?

I don't know the US prices, so I don't know if it's reasonable, but:
$9999 is a psychological threshold price that is supposed to trick the buyer (you) into thinking, that the price is cheaper than $10000, when in fact it isn't really.
But you want to do the reverse. You want to trick the seller into selling the piano as cheap as possible, without realizing it. So you should offer $10000 instead. Only one dollar more for you, but for the seller, $10000 looks much better than $9999.

+1 - especially if you have no trade in.

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: computerpro3] #2745795
06/20/18 05:31 AM
06/20/18 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by computerpro3
So, how much did everyone pay for your NV10? I am thinking of putting in an offer of $9999 - it's currently listed at $11.5. Is this reasonable?


Got mine for 8.000 € (original price: 8.999 €) including VAT.


Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Lite & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2745806
06/20/18 08:31 AM
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Remember, even if you put down an offer and the dealer accepts, you'rec still not obligated to buy at that price. Feel them out, be unsure even if they say yes, and whether they say yes or no, see if they'll go lower, or throw in extras (upgraded bench, included shipping/tax etc.).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Tyr] #2745814
06/20/18 09:54 AM
06/20/18 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by computerpro3
So, how much did everyone pay for your NV10? I am thinking of putting in an offer of $9999 - it's currently listed at $11.5. Is this reasonable?


Got mine for 8.000 € (original price: 8.999 €) including VAT.


Would this convert to about $9,300? or am I missing something here?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2745816
06/20/18 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by computerpro3
So, how much did everyone pay for your NV10? I am thinking of putting in an offer of $9999 - it's currently listed at $11.5. Is this reasonable?


Got mine for 8.000 € (original price: 8.999 €) including VAT.


Would this convert to about $9,300? or am I missing something here?


Maybe? The fact is there is price discrepancy between products sold in the EU versus the US. Some of it is accounted for in tariffs/taxes/import fees, some based on FX, currency stability, shipping, or negotiating power, all at the distributor level. The VPC-1 can be bought in the EU for <$1300 USD but is $1800 here in the states. The sad upshot is that you can't directly compare prices between regions, particularly on Kawai.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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