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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743115
06/08/18 07:28 PM
06/08/18 07:28 PM
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Same basic scheme for entry level es100 - need to set keyboard touch to light to unlock all 128 MIDI velocities.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743148
06/09/18 12:34 AM
06/09/18 12:34 AM
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If I understand correctly, this issue has been discussed here long time ago.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2743168
06/09/18 05:39 AM
06/09/18 05:39 AM
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Italy
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On my Yamaha N1, on Normal curve, to go beyond 90 I have to bang the key - and then just to reach maybe 98-100.
On the other end of the spectrum, it doesn't start to play unless you go beyond around 15. That means I have 85 possible velocity values (more realistically, while playing, 75 values) from a piano I paid 6000€ just to use it as a luxury controller for Garritan or VSL CFX.
I'm still happy I bought it, as nothing beats a real piano action, but - still wondering what where the engineers at Yamaha thinking when designing the midi circuits.
So, my desire to upgrade is alive and well again since the NV10 came out - beautiful action indeed! Oh well, will this ever end?

Originally Posted by CyberGene
P.S. I for one would be the first one on the queue to buy a MIDI-only version of NV10 for say half the price.


I would pay full NV10 price for a concert grand action - you know, the one you can easily play close to the fallboard - and perfect MIDI-only implementation - I doubt it will ever happen though!


Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX & Steinway D - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
PC -> Sonarworks Reference 4 -> RME Babyface Pro -> Schiit Yggdrasil + Jotunheim -> Sennheiser HD650 & HD800
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: 9190] #2743172
06/09/18 05:57 AM
06/09/18 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 9190
If I understand correctly, this issue has been discussed here long time ago.


Thanks! I was unaware of this discussion.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2743174
06/09/18 06:29 AM
06/09/18 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa

Originally Posted by arc7urus
[The downside of the light/light+ setting is that the action becomes quite sensitive around mf, which makes it harder to control the dynamics. I have tried to “smooth out “ the velocity curve using a user setting, but never managed to get an acceptable result - that would be easy if one could edit the user curve like in pianoteq or other vst.


Interesting. I don't know how the "curve" is adjusted between heavy-normal-light, but from what I can tell, the lowest velocities (5-20) are exactly the same between all settings. I suppose there must be some compression somewhere, though, since I'm not pressing any harder to get 120 on Light+ versus 90 on Normal....


Exactly. The lower velocity range seems to remain the same regardless of the touch curve. But when playing mf with the Normal curve I get a MIDI note-on velocity around 70 even with some small variations on the actual physical velocity of the key. But with the Light/Light+ curve those small variations are translated to a MIDI velocity around 70-100.This is sufficient to produce a noticeable difference in the sound. So, it seems there is some "compression" on the mapping between the sensor data and the MIDI velocities on Normal that does not take place on Light.

Btw, I still have my Casio PX-560 which has the same issue not producing MIDI velocities above ~100 with the Normal velocity curve. But when I set the PX-560 to a Light curve I can get the full MIDI velocity range while managing to keep a fairly consistent MIDI note-on velocity while playing mf. But if I set the CA98 to Light and play with the same mf dynamics, then the MIDI velocities are mapped to a wider spectrum.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: 9190] #2743202
06/09/18 10:32 AM
06/09/18 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 9190
If I understand correctly, this issue has been discussed here long time ago.


Thanks, 9190. I recall that specific thread, but I don't think my piano behaves as was described (pp DOESN'T sound like mf. The same keypress velocity results in MIDI note-on of 5-20 for me, regardless of Touch Curve being set to Light+ or Heavy+ or anything inbetween.

I just recalled various discussions about how it was "normal" for DPs not to hit 1~127, and that there was nothing you can do about it. From a VST perspective though, it sounds like Light/Light+ with a custom velocity curve is the way to go.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2743208
06/09/18 11:18 AM
06/09/18 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by NormB


But then, where will the NV10 (and their golf clubs) be in ten years? Your $20k baby grand will of course still be playing right along--and at 20 years, 40 years, and perhaps even 100 years.


Norm, you missed my point. The baby grand may be playing in 20 years, but I very much doubt I will. tired


Point absolutely well taken!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: NormB] #2743212
06/09/18 11:30 AM
06/09/18 11:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 648
Southern California
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Originally Posted by NormB


Point absolutely well taken!


So enjoy ha yippie


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743505
06/10/18 06:44 PM
06/10/18 06:44 PM
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Portland, OR, USA
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Thank you all.

Here are some pics. It fits well in the room I think. Even though I am facing a wall - there is a window on the side at least smile.
[Linked Image]

I think the black monitor goes well with the style of Novus NV 10 smile.
[Linked Image]

There is a slim profile DAW PC hiding behind.
[Linked Image]

I use the touch-screen monitor for both interacting with DAW (Cakewalk) and for viewing sheet music. Almost all the sheet music I use has been digitized from books (or downloaded from IMSLP) - so it keeps the piano clutter free.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

BTW, the Dell logo is upside down because it makes the monitor sit flat against the sheet music stand with cables coming out from the top. I put the nice black felt-like cloth that came with the NV10 between the stand and the monitor to protect the music stand finish.

@budtz, here are the details of the PC build. It is a bit of an overkill in terms of specs for my intended purpose, but I wanted to future proof for 5+ years.

  • Intel Core i7-8770 (with stock Intel cooler)
  • GIGABYTE H370N WIFI (LGA1151/Intel/H270/Mini ITX/USB 3.1 Gen 1 (USB3.0) Type C Type A/DDR4/Motherboard)
  • WD Blue 3D NAND 1TB PC SSD - SATA III 6 Gb/s M.2 2280 Solid State Drive - WDS100T2B0B
  • Dell S2240T 21.5-Inch Touch Screen LED-lit Monitor
  • Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 2666MHz (PC4 21300) C16 Desktop Memory Kit - Black (CMK16GX4M2A2666C16)
  • Fractal Design Case Cases FD-MCA-NODE-202-AA-US
  • TNP Midi to USB Cable Interface Converter - IN OUT Midi Cable Host Adapter Plug Controller Wire Cord For Keyboard Synthesizer Piano Instrument to Mac
  • Windows 10


My objectives behind building this PC were:
  • Instant VST - without requiring any computer interaction.
  • DAW with support for metronome - especially with Garritan CFX (which does not have a built-in metronome as far as I can tell).
  • Pianomarvel support.


This PC serves all these objectives (even though Pianomarvel support with Garritan CFX required a few hoops that I had to jump through as each wants its own sound output device and its own Midi input device).

A few technical notes on the setup:
  • I use the "TNP Mid to USB Cable interface" and connect NV10 via Midi output (instead of via USB to Host). This is because Cakewalk (and Garritan CFX's own app) does not recognize the NV10 USB Midi after NV10 is turned off and on, without having to interact with the software. With the Midi interface, I can turn NV10 on, put the headphone ON and can start playing Garritan CFX, even before the built in Pianist mode sound can be played. I don't have to do anywith with the computer.
  • Touching the touchscreen monitor does not bring the PC out of sleep. So, I have a small mouse hiding behind that I move to bring the PC out of sleep in case I need to use the PC. Most of the time I do not have to do this as just the physical action of pushing the power button on NV10 makes the mouse move enough that PC wakes up!
  • I have been happy with the builtin Realtek ALC1220-VB sound chip on the motherboard. It works well with the ASIO4ALL. It is one of the better Reaktek chips and has Smart Hedaphone Amp which can autosense headphone impedance - it correctly identified 80 ohms impedance on my headphone. I do not have a dedicated USB audio interface or a PCI express sound card. The slim case can support PCI express sound card - which I plan to add eventually if needed. So far, I haven't felt the need on 48kHz/24-bit.
  • With just 2-3 taps, I can switch from Pianoteq to Garritan CFX (or even mix them if I feel like it). Very convenient as sometime I do switch between them.


Thanks,
Osho

Last edited by Osho; 06/10/18 06:52 PM.

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Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743506
06/10/18 06:56 PM
06/10/18 06:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,930
Sofia, Bulgaria
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Congrats! As always, how would you compare the Pianist mode vs CFX?


My Soundcloud, My YouTube
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743511
06/10/18 07:17 PM
06/10/18 07:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 648
Southern California
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Gosh, I like that touchscreen. Quite a setup, Osho. Congrats.


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Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743522
06/10/18 08:14 PM
06/10/18 08:14 PM
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Great setup, Osho! That's an elegant large touchscreen solution.

BTW, I've found that is possible to play from both the VST and Pianist Mode well before the GUI fully boots. I'm not sure if midi starts getting transmitted earlier, but about 2-3 seconds after the progress spinner starts, I can start playing from the built in sounds and from CFX. Any Favorite setting gets applied immediately after the interface comes up.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743529
06/10/18 08:56 PM
06/10/18 08:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,821
Hamamatsu, Japan
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Very nice setup Osho, congrats! (yes, I see you MacMacMac!)
Thank you for the detailed explanation too.

Can the DELL logo be removed from the monitor, or is it underneath the glass?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2743530
06/10/18 09:02 PM
06/10/18 09:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
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Portland, OR, USA
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Congrats! As always, how would you compare the Pianist mode vs CFX?


I haven't played much with the Pianist mode yet.

Via speakers, I am not very impressed with any of the built in sounds - but that may be due to the speaker quality than the Pianist mode.

For headphones, that requires moving the headphone from PC to Kawai - and it's a bit of a hassle. I tried Pianist mode a little bit when I got the piano originally and wasn't too impressed with it and immediately went back to CFX.

Thanks,
Osho


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Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2743531
06/10/18 09:09 PM
06/10/18 09:09 PM
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Portland, OR, USA
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Very nice setup Osho, congrats! (yes, I see you MacMacMac!)
Thank you for the detailed explanation too.

Can the DELL logo be removed from the monitor, or is it underneath the glass?

Thanks James. DELL logo is underneath the glass unfortunately frown.

Originally Posted by TomLC
Gosh, I like that touchscreen. Quite a setup, Osho. Congrats.

Thanks Tom.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
Great setup, Osho! That's an elegant large touchscreen solution.

BTW, I've found that is possible to play from both the VST and Pianist Mode well before the GUI fully boots. I'm not sure if midi starts getting transmitted earlier, but about 2-3 seconds after the progress spinner starts, I can start playing from the built in sounds and from CFX. Any Favorite setting gets applied immediately after the interface comes up.



Thanks Gombessa. Yes, the midi starts transmitting very quickly after you turn it on. It takes quite a bit of time before the touch screen starts. This 'early Midi output' was a positive surprise I didn't expect smile.

Osho


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743539
06/10/18 09:57 PM
06/10/18 09:57 PM
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Nice, Osho.
From the side the Novus does look more like a grand (small) than an upright. Actually, from the front it also looks like a grand!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743574
06/11/18 04:10 AM
06/11/18 04:10 AM
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Excellent setup Osho!

What software are you using for reading the scores on the PC? A standard PDF reader/editor or something more elaborate?

Another question: have you measured the latency while using CFX or PianoTeq with your setup? If you play in Pianist Mode in the NV10 and feed the audio from your PC into the line-in do you notice any delay when the internal and VST sound are playing simultaneously?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743584
06/11/18 06:52 AM
06/11/18 06:52 AM
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Germany
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The pedal creaking has returned....! I hope the issue is finally fixed next saturday. tired


Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Lite & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2743589
06/11/18 07:58 AM
06/11/18 07:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 648
Southern California
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Nice, Osho.
From the side the Novus does look more like a grand (small) than an upright. Actually, from the front it also looks like a grand!


I think Kawai got that right, Pete. It both looks, and feels, like you are playing a grand piano. And to me, without headphones, it sounds like a really good grand piano also.

And it even has grand piano issues... cursing

Last edited by TomLC; 06/11/18 08:00 AM. Reason: Creaking pedal.

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Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743592
06/11/18 08:24 AM
06/11/18 08:24 AM
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I’m beginning to doubt whether I should get the upcoming baby Novus. smile
The current Novus is a beautiful beast, and being a bit smaller than a baby grand, a more practical -not to mention- cheaper option.

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