Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Our December 2018 Piano Newsletter Is Here!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
62 registered members (danielp11, CyberGene, Audetto, barbaram, cliowa, bennevis, amad23, agent8698, Animisha, 13 invisible), 1,364 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 44 of 74 1 2 42 43 44 45 46 73 74
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743511
06/10/18 06:17 PM
06/10/18 06:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
So. Calif.
TomLC Offline
Gold Subscriber
TomLC  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
So. Calif.
Gosh, I like that touchscreen. Quite a setup, Osho. Congrats.


Kawai Novus NV10
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743522
06/10/18 07:14 PM
06/10/18 07:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,207
G
Gombessa Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,207
Great setup, Osho! That's an elegant large touchscreen solution.

BTW, I've found that is possible to play from both the VST and Pianist Mode well before the GUI fully boots. I'm not sure if midi starts getting transmitted earlier, but about 2-3 seconds after the progress spinner starts, I can start playing from the built in sounds and from CFX. Any Favorite setting gets applied immediately after the interface comes up.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743529
06/10/18 07:56 PM
06/10/18 07:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,461
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,461
Hamamatsu, Japan
Very nice setup Osho, congrats! (yes, I see you MacMacMac!)
Thank you for the detailed explanation too.

Can the DELL logo be removed from the monitor, or is it underneath the glass?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2743530
06/10/18 08:02 PM
06/10/18 08:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 845
Portland, OR, USA
O
Osho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Osho  Offline
500 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 845
Portland, OR, USA
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Congrats! As always, how would you compare the Pianist mode vs CFX?


I haven't played much with the Pianist mode yet.

Via speakers, I am not very impressed with any of the built in sounds - but that may be due to the speaker quality than the Pianist mode.

For headphones, that requires moving the headphone from PC to Kawai - and it's a bit of a hassle. I tried Pianist mode a little bit when I got the piano originally and wasn't too impressed with it and immediately went back to CFX.

Thanks,
Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6
(ad) SWEETWATER
Easy Monthly Payments on Keyboards & Synthesizers
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2743531
06/10/18 08:09 PM
06/10/18 08:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 845
Portland, OR, USA
O
Osho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Osho  Offline
500 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 845
Portland, OR, USA
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Very nice setup Osho, congrats! (yes, I see you MacMacMac!)
Thank you for the detailed explanation too.

Can the DELL logo be removed from the monitor, or is it underneath the glass?

Thanks James. DELL logo is underneath the glass unfortunately frown.

Originally Posted by TomLC
Gosh, I like that touchscreen. Quite a setup, Osho. Congrats.

Thanks Tom.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
Great setup, Osho! That's an elegant large touchscreen solution.

BTW, I've found that is possible to play from both the VST and Pianist Mode well before the GUI fully boots. I'm not sure if midi starts getting transmitted earlier, but about 2-3 seconds after the progress spinner starts, I can start playing from the built in sounds and from CFX. Any Favorite setting gets applied immediately after the interface comes up.



Thanks Gombessa. Yes, the midi starts transmitting very quickly after you turn it on. It takes quite a bit of time before the touch screen starts. This 'early Midi output' was a positive surprise I didn't expect smile.

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743539
06/10/18 08:57 PM
06/10/18 08:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
Nice, Osho.
From the side the Novus does look more like a grand (small) than an upright. Actually, from the front it also looks like a grand!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743574
06/11/18 03:10 AM
06/11/18 03:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 613
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
500 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
500 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 613
Europe
Excellent setup Osho!

What software are you using for reading the scores on the PC? A standard PDF reader/editor or something more elaborate?

Another question: have you measured the latency while using CFX or PianoTeq with your setup? If you play in Pianist Mode in the NV10 and feed the audio from your PC into the line-in do you notice any delay when the internal and VST sound are playing simultaneously?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743584
06/11/18 05:52 AM
06/11/18 05:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 225
Germany
T
Tyr Online content
Full Member
Tyr  Online Content
Full Member
T

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 225
Germany
The pedal creaking has returned....! I hope the issue is finally fixed next saturday. tired


Ordered: Yamaha NU1X (arrives on 12/20/2018)
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2743589
06/11/18 06:58 AM
06/11/18 06:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
So. Calif.
TomLC Offline
Gold Subscriber
TomLC  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
So. Calif.
Originally Posted by Pete14
Nice, Osho.
From the side the Novus does look more like a grand (small) than an upright. Actually, from the front it also looks like a grand!


I think Kawai got that right, Pete. It both looks, and feels, like you are playing a grand piano. And to me, without headphones, it sounds like a really good grand piano also.

And it even has grand piano issues... cursing

Last edited by TomLC; 06/11/18 07:00 AM. Reason: Creaking pedal.

Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743592
06/11/18 07:24 AM
06/11/18 07:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
I’m beginning to doubt whether I should get the upcoming baby Novus. smile
The current Novus is a beautiful beast, and being a bit smaller than a baby grand, a more practical -not to mention- cheaper option.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2743597
06/11/18 07:50 AM
06/11/18 07:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,699
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,699
Germany
Originally Posted by TomLC
And to me, without headphones, it sounds like a really good grand piano also.

Same for me. I have no doubts that if I had a GL30 or something like it right beside my NV10, I would easily hear how a real grand actually does sound different. But since I do not have such an acoustic right beside it, and also no other opportunity to play acoustics elsewhere (I don't seek them out either), to me personally, the NV10 does sound like a real grand. It's funny how the brain can be that way. Well, I don't complain. The illusion works very well for me. cool

Oh, and although I'm late to the party: Congratulations Osho!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2743599
06/11/18 08:07 AM
06/11/18 08:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 225
Germany
T
Tyr Online content
Full Member
Tyr  Online Content
Full Member
T

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 225
Germany
Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by Pete14
Nice, Osho.
From the side the Novus does look more like a grand (small) than an upright. Actually, from the front it also looks like a grand!


I think Kawai got that right, Pete. It both looks, and feels, like you are playing a grand piano. And to me, without headphones, it sounds like a really good grand piano also.

And it even has grand piano issues... cursing


Agreed! I needed 4 - 6 weeks to getting used to it, but now i'm very happy with it soundwise.


Ordered: Yamaha NU1X (arrives on 12/20/2018)
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2743817
06/12/18 05:14 AM
06/12/18 05:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 142
P
PianoGuyStuart Offline
Full Member
PianoGuyStuart  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by Pete14
Nice, Osho.
From the side the Novus does look more like a grand (small) than an upright. Actually, from the front it also looks like a grand!

I think Kawai got that right, Pete. It both looks, and feels, like you are playing a grand piano. And to me, without headphones, it sounds like a really good grand piano also.

And it even has grand piano issues... cursing


So, how about through headphones (rather than out loud) for everyone sound wise?

Opinions?



Last edited by PianoGuyStuart; 06/12/18 05:15 AM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Osho] #2743846
06/12/18 08:34 AM
06/12/18 08:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,303
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,303
Originally Posted by Osho
@budtz, here are the details of the PC build. It is a bit of an overkill in terms of specs for my intended purpose, but I wanted to future proof for 5+ years.

  • Intel Core i7-8770 (with stock Intel cooler)
  • GIGABYTE H370N WIFI (LGA1151/Intel/H270/Mini ITX/USB 3.1 Gen 1 (USB3.0) Type C Type A/DDR4/Motherboard)
  • WD Blue 3D NAND 1TB PC SSD - SATA III 6 Gb/s M.2 2280 Solid State Drive - WDS100T2B0B
  • Dell S2240T 21.5-Inch Touch Screen LED-lit Monitor
  • Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 2666MHz (PC4 21300) C16 Desktop Memory Kit - Black (CMK16GX4M2A2666C16)
  • Fractal Design Case Cases FD-MCA-NODE-202-AA-US
  • TNP Midi to USB Cable Interface Converter - IN OUT Midi Cable Host Adapter Plug Controller Wire Cord For Keyboard Synthesizer Piano Instrument to Mac
  • Windows 10


My objectives behind building this PC were:
  • Instant VST - without requiring any computer interaction.
  • DAW with support for metronome - especially with Garritan CFX (which does not have a built-in metronome as far as I can tell).
  • Pianomarvel support.



Osho, I did a similar thing with my DP, only in a micro way compared to you, so a big thumb! I put a 27" LCD panel on a full-motion wall mount behind the DP. On a shelf behind the piano, driving my monitor, I have a ACEPC AK1 Mini PC, which is a 5"x5"x2" Windows 10 computer with an Intel Celeron J3455 processor and 2TB on a 2nd drive in the Mini PC case, and this PC runs Piano Marvel, Audacity as a DAW, Youtube, and Skype (want to take some piano lessons through Skype or similar IM software, so I also added a Logitech BRIO camera to this setup). To accommodate post-midnight piano practice in an apartment building, I have the DP and computer audio output running through a little 2-channel analog mixer into my headphones.

When I slammed this together in a single day, had the general feeling I had even overkilled the solution given what little I wanted to do then. With the passing of a few months, I now have regrets I had lacked ambition then. I have now realized that my aspirations for my little piano "setup", from those inchoate thoughts of 4 months ago, have now grown but my original hardware choices have not, so reading your part list leaves me envious and salivating. I had not future-proofed myself even by a few months! For example, I am think now of adding a virtual piano like Pianoteq or Garritan CFX, and using my DP as a midi-controller, but I haven't even bothered because I sort of feel that the Intel Celeron J3455 in the Mini PC will just fall down on the job and since I am OCD, I know any lags and other audio artifacts would drive me nuts, like lags in the previous release of Piano Marvel's app had done.

Can you provide a bit more tech info on the computer itself that you brewed up for those that may want to follow your footsteps? I assume that is it sitting against the wall behind the pedals? Would you mind sharing your specific component list/brands you went with?

Thanks!


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: PianoGuyStuart] #2743847
06/12/18 08:37 AM
06/12/18 08:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
So. Calif.
TomLC Offline
Gold Subscriber
TomLC  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
So. Calif.
Originally Posted by PianoGuyStuart
Originally Posted by Pete14
Nice, Osho.
From the side the Novus does look more like a grand (small) than an upright. Actually, from the front it also looks like a grand!

I think Kawai got that right, Pete. It both looks, and feels, like you are playing a grand piano. And to me, without headphones, it sounds like a really good grand piano also.

And it even has grand piano issues... cursing
(Re: Tyr's creaky pedal).

So, how about through headphones (rather than out loud) for everyone sound wise?

Opinions?




Stuart, I don't think wearing headphones contributes much to the pretense that I am playing a grand piano in a nightclub. laugh

Sound wise it depends on your ears, I guess. As we've discussed on this forum; some love it, others use VST's. I like the pianist Jazz, and Classic a lot until the string resonance ringing gets to me. However, the "Sound pianos, especially the EX-Concert and SK5 are great. Even the older "Jazz and Upright (K60) are very good and nice to use for a variety.


Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2743963
06/12/18 06:05 PM
06/12/18 06:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
I noticed a ‘voicing’ parameter that’s adjustable on a note-per-note basis. Does this work similarly to voicing an acoustic?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2744032
06/13/18 12:48 AM
06/13/18 12:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,699
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,699
Germany
Originally Posted by Pete14
I noticed a ‘voicing’ parameter that’s adjustable on a note-per-note basis. Does this work similarly to voicing an acoustic?

Essentially yes, it makes the tone mellower or harder.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744063
06/13/18 04:42 AM
06/13/18 04:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 756
Europe
M
mcoll Offline
500 Post Club Member
mcoll  Offline
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 756
Europe
I'm a little late to the party, but for the touchscreen, I have seen this recently and it seems like a very good option:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324921-REG/dell_p2418ht_24_touchscreen_fhd.html

The size is great for displaying sheet music, I like the fact that it's matte, and maybe it can be used with the music stand folded down, either on top of the stand, or behind/under the stand (I'm not sure how much room there is left behind the stand when it's folded down). Bonus points - maybe the logo can be removed or covered with some matte gaffer tape smile

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744067
06/13/18 05:14 AM
06/13/18 05:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Pete14
I noticed a ‘voicing’ parameter that’s adjustable on a note-per-note basis. Does this work similarly to voicing an acoustic?

Essentially yes, it makes the tone mellower or harder.


Thanks, JoBert.

The LX-17 also has this feature (“Character”), but for me it’s not very useful because the sound changes too drastically instead of gradually. It seems easy to get to the extremes, but not in between, in terms of getting a softer/harder sound.

Also, the “Volume” note-per-note parameter does not allow for volume up. If you have a note that sounds too low in relation to neighboring notes, you have to lower the volume of all the neighboring notes to even things out; instead of simply raising the volume for the offending note.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744428
06/14/18 01:35 PM
06/14/18 01:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 80
Hamburg, Germany
H
Holger Stief Offline
Full Member
Holger Stief  Offline
Full Member
H

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 80
Hamburg, Germany
What a magnificent thread this has become over the last few months! wow
Let me add a modest, little post to it... grin

So eventually I have purchased my own Novus NV10, which arrived last week.
In the end, after trying it out thoroughly I figured it was really worth it to replace my old Kawai CA95 with the real deal in terms of action. And I am so happy that I did, because now for me there is no adjustment necessary at all anymore between practicing digitally and playing on my real grand piano. Practice results carry over perfectly to the real grand, and actually I also tend to practice quite a bit more in the evening now, since playing the NV10 is such a joy!

Initially I had been a bit precautious about the lack of note-off velocity, since even my CA95 has this feature, as do the CA78 and CA98 (so they actually make more use of the possibilities of the internal sound engine than the NV10 does).
However, when I specifically tested my CA95 with my main software piano libraries, it turned out that those did not receive or make use of these note-off velocities either, so I figured there would be no real sacrifice here compared to the way I mainly used my CA95. Especially since due to my playing style, about 99% of my note releases are actually controlled with the pedal anyways.

Also, the loudness of mechanic noise of the action was important to me, but on trying out the NV10 I was very happy to find that the action noise was barely louder than the noise produced by the original Grand Feel action in my CA95 (which in turn to me seemed to be a bit louder than Grand Feel II).
In comparison to Grand Feel, I find the Millennium III action to emit a bit more rattle of the hammers, but actually less of a thumping noise when bottoming out a key, so my impression was that the noise it produces does not carry over into the chassis that much. As others have stated before, it is noticeably quieter than the action in the Yamaha AvantGrands, which I found to be quite disturbing when playing on low volume or with open headphones.

My NV10 came with firmware 1.0.2 already installed, and I am happy to report that I have not encountered any of the issues posted in this thread so far.
Pedals are working smoothly, no GUI crashes on inserting headphones, no hiss from the line in volume or when using the touch display, and Bluetooth Audio works just fine with my tablet.
Also, the fallboard is aligned perfectly so I don't see the wooden parts on the key sticks at all when playing.

Yet, I discovered one important drawback that needs mentioning from my point of view, and it is related to the "double note on one key press" issue described by Gombessa and others in this thread from this post on page 36 onwards:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...wai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2736135

Apparently so far everyone reported that this is not an issue during normal piano playing because the internal sound engine, as well as external software like Garritan CFX and PianoTeq, basically do nothing with the velocity 1 notes.
Which seems reasonable because on a double strike with velocity 1 on a real grand, the hammer would not reach the string and thus there would not be any change to the sound of existing notes.

However:
As I tested the NV10 with my VI Labs software piano libraries (Ravenscroft and True Keys: Pianos), I found out that here those "silent" double notes with velocity 1 actually "overwrite" the previous note, so on playing any sustained note that triggers a "silent" double note, the sustain of the previous note gets chopped off.
When playing with sustain pedal down, the note still gets chopped off and only the sympathetic/pedal resonance continues to sound.
Even with the MIDI touch curve set to a minimum above one (so the velocity 1 notes really should not be counted into the picture at all), the notes STILL get chopped off!

Which means that out of the box, the VI Labs software pianos are basically unplayable with any NV10 that does produce those double notes. It just ruins the whole playing experience when random notes drop out after a fraction of a second...

I found a workaround for the issue though:
By using a MIDI translator software (i.e. Bome's MIDI Translator), I programmed a translator for each key that would filter out any note-on events with velocity 1. And I set the velocity curve in the VI Labs pianos to start at a minimum of velocity 2. So the "silent" note-on events get filtered out before they reach the software, and luckily the doubled note-off events (that always come with velocity 76) do not cause any harm.
With this workaround in place, everything now works as it should.
And since I was used to only get MIDI values between 15 and 115 out of my CA95, I am still better off now, because with the touch setting on Light+ on my NV10, I can use everything from 2 to about 125. A noticeable improvement in MIDI resolution!

So in conclusion: The NV10, even if it triggers occasional double notes with velocity 1, will work marvelously with any software piano library that treats such notes as silent notes without consequences.
For other libraries like the ones from VI Labs, you need an additional MIDI Translator software to make everything work.

Well then... with all that said, I leave you with a picture of my NV10, which I will now continue to play for the rest of the evening! smile

[Linked Image]


Pianist & Composer.
Steingraeber & Söhne C-212 CF, Kawai Novus NV10
VI Labs Ravenscroft, True Keys: Pianos; Garritan CFX Concert Grand, Synthogy Ivory II
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKKuqH6G1C9TuJosOx1dXaQ
https://holgerstiefpiano.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/holgerstiefpiano
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Holger Stief] #2744439
06/14/18 02:13 PM
06/14/18 02:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 123
Germany
D
danielp11 Online content
Full Member
danielp11  Online Content
Full Member
D

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 123
Germany
Hi Holger:
Concerning the midi 1 values: I think the bahavior of the VI Labs Software is just wrong.
If you play (everything with pedal and on an acoustic piano) a key loud and then directly afterwards you play the same key soft, the sound should is still loud and not quiet (soft).

Daniel


KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: danielp11] #2744446
06/14/18 02:53 PM
06/14/18 02:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,699
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,699
Germany
Thanks for your post Holger and for giving your impressions. Great to hear that you are so satisfied with your new piano. (Actually, you've inspired me to go and put on the headphones and play a bit myself when I'm done writing this smile).

Originally Posted by danielp11
Hi Holger:
Concerning the midi 1 values: I think the bahavior of the VI Labs Software is just wrong.
If you play (everything with pedal and on an acoustic piano) a key loud and then directly afterwards you play the same key soft, the sound should is still loud and not quiet (soft).

That's true. And especially so because velocity 1 is the equivalent of "hammer did not hit the string". So if you have a hammer bobble where the hammer first hits the string and then bobbles up a second time without hitting the string, then the first strike would simple continue to sound normally.

Gombessa wrote that his double strike problem was solved with a firmware fix. Holger, maybe that's a solution for you to? (Although not terribly urgent, as you've already solved it with software yourself.)

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744455
06/14/18 03:23 PM
06/14/18 03:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
So. Calif.
TomLC Offline
Gold Subscriber
TomLC  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
So. Calif.
"Practice results carry over perfectly to the real grand, and actually I also tend to practice quite a bit more in the evening now, since playing the NV10 is such a joy!"

Holgar, The NV10 action must be pretty good. As your 7' grand is one the best pianos in the world! Welcome to our little group of Novus owners.


Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744457
06/14/18 03:30 PM
06/14/18 03:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
If the aforementioned MIDI behavior is normal, why does it manifest in some Novus’ yet not others? is this strictly to do with firmware? If so, then it appears as if this is not normal behavior, and therefore, it is corrected in newer firmware versions.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2744463
06/14/18 03:52 PM
06/14/18 03:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,207
G
Gombessa Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,207
Originally Posted by Pete14
If the aforementioned MIDI behavior is normal, why does it manifest in some Novus’ yet not others? is this strictly to do with firmware? If so, then it appears as if this is not normal behavior, and therefore, it is corrected in newer firmware versions.


I think it's normal to see midi velocity 1 in certain situations. On a "non-hybrid" DP it implies that the bottom sensor is tripped but the velocity is too low to register a strike (yet the damper should be raised for resonance, etc.)

On a hybrid you might get velocity 1 if the hammer travels slowly enough to trip the proper optical sensor, but again with too low (or unknowable) a velocity to imply a proper strike. On my NV10 this happens if you try to play off the jack. As to Pete's question about why some pianos and not others, it also happens in some cases on some keys when playing lightly (midi velocity 20-30 strikes for me), which I assume is this "bobbling hammers" regulation issue. The thing with a hybrid though, is that the bobbling doesn't affect normal play in any way I can tell, so I would guess that hybrids are simply not as dependent on exacting regulation as an acoustic, as mentioned before mainly because there aren't actually any strings to hit. And again, as long as there aren't any sounds being produced, maybe it's simply within tolerance?

The firmware update seems to filter out (what would have been) velocity 1 strikes when Touch Curve is Off, which is the only case I can tell when it makes a difference. I recall being able to play off the jack with Touch Curve Off before, but now you need a proper strike. Also, you still get velocity 1 events when Touch Curve is set to anything else, so unfortunately it won't help the Vi Labs situation (though I'm in agreement that Vi seems to be handling these events incorrectly).

Oh, and the "note off velocity" is now changed to 64, regardless of whether Local Control is enabled or disabled. On the previous firmware, I had reported that when Local Control is on, note-off sends a MIDI velocity of 48. When LC is off, it sends 76. 64 is more intuitive if nothing else, as it's midway between 0 and 127. And I never understood why there would be a difference between LC on/off, so I assume the differing values was just an oversight.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744692
06/15/18 12:29 PM
06/15/18 12:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 80
Hamburg, Germany
H
Holger Stief Offline
Full Member
Holger Stief  Offline
Full Member
H

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 80
Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted by JoBert
Thanks for your post Holger and for giving your impressions. Great to hear that you are so satisfied with your new piano. (Actually, you've inspired me to go and put on the headphones and play a bit myself when I'm done writing this smile).

Originally Posted by danielp11
Hi Holger:
Concerning the midi 1 values: I think the bahavior of the VI Labs Software is just wrong.
If you play (everything with pedal and on an acoustic piano) a key loud and then directly afterwards you play the same key soft, the sound should is still loud and not quiet (soft).

That's true. And especially so because velocity 1 is the equivalent of "hammer did not hit the string". So if you have a hammer bobble where the hammer first hits the string and then bobbles up a second time without hitting the string, then the first strike would simple continue to sound normally.

Gombessa wrote that his double strike problem was solved with a firmware fix. Holger, maybe that's a solution for you to? (Although not terribly urgent, as you've already solved it with software yourself.)


Thank you!
As I am on firmware 1.0.2 already, I don't think there's a fix for it out there yet, and it wouldn't help if the fix only applies for when the touch curve is set to off.

Also I agree on that the behaviour of the VI Labs pianos is not realistic in this specific scenario. I wondered about this and did some more checks. As it turned out, it's not only the velocity 1 notes caused by a double note trigger (as with a bobbling hammer), that are problematic. The cutting off of previous sustained notes actually happens whenever there is a new note-on event for a sustained note that was not previously ended by a corresponding note-off event.

This means if I play a fortissimo note (no matter if the pedal is down or not), then release the key only partly as not to lower the damper (thus not sending a note-off event), and then trigger a second note with lower velocity from just above the jack, the new note-on event will overwrite the first value and totally replace the previous note. So this can give quite an unrealistic result, the more noticeable the higher the velocity difference between the notes is. And this has nothing to do with bobbling hammers on a hybrid action, it is a totally valid playing scenario on a real grand piano (playing legato on the same note without using the pedal) and reproducable on any three-sensor digital action.

What does work however, is holding the sustain pedal down, playing a high velocity note, releasing the key fully (or at least as much as necessary to send a note-off event), then playing the second note. In that scenario the VI Labs will layer the sound of the successive notes and thus gives a realistic sound result.


Pianist & Composer.
Steingraeber & Söhne C-212 CF, Kawai Novus NV10
VI Labs Ravenscroft, True Keys: Pianos; Garritan CFX Concert Grand, Synthogy Ivory II
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKKuqH6G1C9TuJosOx1dXaQ
https://holgerstiefpiano.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/holgerstiefpiano
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2744694
06/15/18 12:45 PM
06/15/18 12:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 80
Hamburg, Germany
H
Holger Stief Offline
Full Member
Holger Stief  Offline
Full Member
H

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 80
Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted by TomLC
"Practice results carry over perfectly to the real grand, and actually I also tend to practice quite a bit more in the evening now, since playing the NV10 is such a joy!"

Holgar, The NV10 action must be pretty good. As your 7' grand is one the best pianos in the world! Welcome to our little group of Novus owners.


Thanks, I am happy to join the club! smile

Well, on direct comparison the NV10 does not measure up to that elusive, buttery smooth playing feel of a meticulously regulated Renner action, or the Millennium III action in the real Shigeru Kawai grands.
But as you surely experience yourself daily, the NV10 feels very satisfying and inspiring to play in its own right, with very good control and connection to the sound engine. So there's no limit to what one can do with it, and therefore after all it becomes all about the music.
Right now I certainly feel like I finally got the best of both worlds, so the only thing I can improve from now on is my playing. Which is exactly what I plan to do... smile


Pianist & Composer.
Steingraeber & Söhne C-212 CF, Kawai Novus NV10
VI Labs Ravenscroft, True Keys: Pianos; Garritan CFX Concert Grand, Synthogy Ivory II
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKKuqH6G1C9TuJosOx1dXaQ
https://holgerstiefpiano.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/holgerstiefpiano
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744787
06/16/18 01:01 AM
06/16/18 01:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 480
Connecticut/Cincinnati
C
computerpro3 Offline
Full Member
computerpro3  Offline
Full Member
C

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 480
Connecticut/Cincinnati
I am not sure if people are making agreements not to say, but I am wondering how much USA customers are actually paying for this instrument? I am very close to buying it, but this is a big purchase for me and I need to make sure I am getting a fair deal.

Can we please get some out-in-the-open prices paid for these?

Thanks!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744806
06/16/18 05:46 AM
06/16/18 05:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,177
Yes, it would be good to know what these are truly selling for. At the moment we have one posting in the ‘prices paid’ thread for $10,999 plus taxes; however, there’s no info on how much the buyer received for the trade-in. This is important because some dealers will give you a lower price on the purchase, but then kill you on the trade-in; others will give you a decent amount for your trade-in, but then kill you on the purchase. If no trade-in is involved you might have a chance at a better deal.

I’t seems like $12,000 being at the top and $10,000 at the lower end. I assume that if no trade-in is involved and one pays in cash for the full amount (no financing) there’s a chance for a better quote? Perhaps something closer to 9K?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2744823
06/16/18 07:05 AM
06/16/18 07:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,699
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,699
Germany
Picking up a topic from earlier in the thread: The (undamped strings resonances) "ringing" of the SK-EX rendering engine (pianist mode) that some people have a problem with.

I was reminded of that when I watched Holger's YouTube video where he plays his composition "Stars" on his Steingraeber concert grand. Check it out (you can find the link in his signature above), especially the beginning of the piece (from 0:20 in the video).

There's a very similar ringing from the Steingraeber. Actually, I think it is even more pronounced than in Kawai's pianist mode (although that may partially be a recording artefact).

Page 44 of 74 1 2 42 43 44 45 46 73 74

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Steinway v Mason and Hamlin
by Grandman. 12/19/18 04:50 AM
USB Soundcard for use with Keyscape
by Hr.. 12/19/18 04:39 AM
Trying toi price a Schafer & Sons
by JETinCA. 12/19/18 12:09 AM
Pipe Organ on Entry-level DP's
by gerhard_k. 12/18/18 10:53 PM
NU1X Bluetooth in US
by oneilt130. 12/18/18 09:39 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,003
Posts2,772,824
Members91,805
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2