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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701025 12/31/17 06:15 PM
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Google started to punish sites which are not optimised for mobile also (no joke).

I think it has nothing to do with paying for ads or not.

Daniel

Last edited by danielp11; 12/31/17 06:15 PM.

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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701136 01/01/18 09:42 AM
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Agree with Daniel. As site owner you can manage search engine optimization without paying anything.

Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
JohnSprung #2701138 01/01/18 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung

Actually this has nothing to do with net neutrality. Net neutrality is about the speed with which different sites are delivered, it has nothing to do with search results. The purpose of net neutrality was to protect the big bandwidth users like Netflix and Amazon. It was a regulation on ISP's, not search engines.

I don't see how the FCC would have legal authority to regulate search results, that would have to be a consumer protection agency of some sort. It's a business practices issue, not a communications issue.

The right thing to do immediately is for all of us to stop using google, instead use the other search engines.


I don't think that any of the paying related stuff you and the others above write about makes even a tiny bit of sense. Here in Europe Google would be severely punished by the EC if any of the above were true. It's simply prohibited as their marketshare is to big. Think about billions of dollars of fines.. It happened before.

Last edited by WimPiano; 01/01/18 09:45 AM.
Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701208 01/01/18 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by WimPiano
I don't think that any of the paying related stuff you and the others above write about makes even a tiny bit of sense. Here in Europe Google would be severely punished by the EC if any of the above were true. It's simply prohibited as their marketshare is to big. Think about billions of dollars of fines.. It happened before.

Unfortunately, here in the US, (and other countries, I'm sure) corporate greed and corruption seem to be the prevailing attitude with a lot of larger companies. On occasion, they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and get their hand slapped with big fines, but the fines are a small drop in the bucket in terms of the profits they make and things continue pretty much the same as they were.

I could cite many recent examples of this, but there is no need. Anyone who reads the news or watches the news on TV knows what I'm talking about.

Sometimes I wonder where it will all end, but I guess we'll all find out soon enough...

Happy New Year!

Rick


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701272 01/01/18 08:17 PM
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About a year ago, Google started sending me warnings that my website was not mobile freindly, and that after a certain amount of grace period, Google would start lowering my website from search results if I do not convert my website to be mobile friendly. Since I don't really have any traffic on my nothing "website", I basically ignored it and didn't care. However, I can see that Google was not kidding about lowering web search results for non-mobile friendly sites since it is almost impossible to use PW on anything other than an old legacy computer. I've used PW on my iPad. I have to do a lot of zooming in and out, panning left and right. For an iPhone, Android phone, it's near unusable. That's good. It tells me I should not be reading PW on my phone. I need less obsessive phone use anyway.

I'm pretty sure Google just looks at all that and decides this website is not mobile friendly, therefore it followed through with its warning of lowering its search results. However, I'm quite sure if PW pays Google to rank its pages higher, Google would oblige.

I pay Google to not read my email in Gmail, so Google does not, nor does Google use my email or search result to blast me with ads. Google is a business, so all you have to do is pay them like any other services, and they will serve you as expected. Google is fairly transparent about what it will and will not do, and the different levels of support given to paying and non-paying customers. If you don't pay Google with money, then you are paying Google with your data and information. Your choice. The service was never free.

I also like to agree that duckduckgo is great. No need to pay for no tracking. It's no tracking for everyone. Make sure if you use an ad blocker, you whitelist duckduckgo from the blocker, so you will see ads in search results which could help them make money. I even click on the ad resutls in duckduckgo just to help them out. Go duckduckgo!

Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701273 01/01/18 08:29 PM
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I remember when the neighborhood kids around the old Tiger Stadium would come up to you after you parked and say, "Watch your car for you during the game?"


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701293 01/01/18 09:52 PM
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As with the old broadcast media, we made a bad bargain with the "devil" when we believed the internet would be free. It is commercialized by a combination of advertising to users and categorizing of users, both "services" monetized by companies/political groups with something to sell.

I advocated for and desired having consumers pay to access information except for Government sites. All the fees were to be added to your monthly ISP bill a bit like an old phone company but, with the internet it is very easy to have many companies competing to provide ISP.

Content providers would set their rates and see what the market would bear. I think the costs would have been driven down to where a serious user of the internet would pay less than you do for Cel phone service.

Now we pay with our time, annoying distractions and cash!.


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701316 01/02/18 12:49 AM
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I know a little bit of SEO but I am not an expert. I don't think there is just one reason but a combination of many reasons that cause Pianoworld to drop in Google search results. Not optimized for mobile is probably a big one. Another one may be the lack of SSL certificate. Google announced 3 years ago that they would rank web sites with HTTPS connection higher, see here: https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2014/08/https-as-ranking-signal.html

There are probably other factors in play. I think one thing we all agree is that the internet has been fully commercialized and as a site owner you have to continue playing the search engine optimization game. Indeed, even the public university I am working for is looking for SEO consultants to boost our search ranking. It is probably not fair for small web site owners but alas.

Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
Pneuma #2701337 01/02/18 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Pneuma
I know a little bit of SEO but I am not an expert. I don't think there is just one reason but a combination of many reasons that cause Pianoworld to drop in Google search results. Not optimized for mobile is probably a big one. Another one may be the lack of SSL certificate. Google announced 3 years ago that they would rank web sites with HTTPS connection higher, see here: https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2014/08/https-as-ranking-signal.html


You make a good point about HTTPS. I think that has become basically the default expected standard for websites. I would say that soon, if a website cannot be connected in encrypted HTTPS, future versions of Chrome, Safari, Firefox, or Edge may refuse to display plain text pages by default. You may have to go into settings in the browsers to explicitly tell the browser to allow non-encrypted HTTP pages. At that point, most non-power users would simply think the unencrypted websites were either down or become unavailable and give up.

Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701339 01/02/18 03:55 AM
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Here is a comment that I came across the other day on another site (not written by me):

Quote
In my professional judgment, there is little benefit to https for many sites, which simply present publicly available information. This is based on my 20+ years of internet security work throughout my career. Payment pages where people enter credit card information obviously need encryption, but in my opinion most sites see little to no benefit.

Https means it can't be loaded from your ISP or company's cache, making popular sites slower. It also prevents corporate security or your own router / firewall from seeing the malware or whatever that some hacker added to the page, and generally keeping an eye out for security problems. For public sites where you don't log in, I think https is a net reduction of security.


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
WimPiano #2701403 01/02/18 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by WimPiano
[I don't think that any of the paying related stuff you and the others above write about makes even a tiny bit of sense..


OK, so then what do you think net neutrality is -- or was?


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
JohnSprung #2701415 01/02/18 10:48 AM
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Here, in the Netherlands.. is, definite is, providers will get fines when they interfere with content.

Some basic steps to improve site visibility on google:
First you add the site:
https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/submit-url?continue=/addurl

You can manage how your website shows up in google search here:
https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/home?hl=en

Then, if you want to go further you can add structured data to your site to help Google understand it:
https://developers.google.com/search/docs/guides/intro-structured-data

BTW, about mobile first, I wholeheartedly agree with Google, 90% of my internet browsing is mobile. The pianoworld site is very cumbersome on mobile devices. Not meant as criticism to Frank btw.

Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701417 01/02/18 10:56 AM
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Just to be sure I performed some checks: it seems that google cannot index Pianworld any longer which is an obvious explanation of it not showing up in Google. Should be something which can be fixed easily. Google displays this error: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/7197804

It really surprises me that there's so much complaining without performing any form of serious test. All sorts of opinions about money and net neutrality are expressed as if they were facts while the very obvious possibility of a technical problem is not even considered... sigh..

Not a google fanboy here btw. I just don't like complaints without facts..

Last edited by WimPiano; 01/02/18 10:59 AM.
Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701469 01/02/18 01:38 PM
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Click on this link to see the robots.txt file for forum.pianoworld.com

Quote
User-agent: *
Allow: /


* = match everything
/ = root directory (i.e. everything)

This robots.txt file says that all user agents (spiders, bots, etc) are allowed to index the entire site.


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701482 01/02/18 02:33 PM
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The robots.txt is one of a number of possible causes, in this case unlikely. I cannot perform further analysis as that is only possible for the site owner using e.g. this tool:
https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/googlebot-fetch

Of the test of your robots.txt:
https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/robots-testing-tool?

Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
WimPiano #2701521 01/02/18 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WimPiano
Here, in the Netherlands.. is, definite is, providers will get fines when they interfere with content.


Here in the United States, Net Neutrality has a precise legal definition. It was a set of FCC regulations on internet service providers regarding speed. It had absolutely nothing to do with content. Any reference to content is a misuse of the term -- at least here.


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701532 01/02/18 05:14 PM
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Speed (actually prioritization, charging for or blocking of content) based on type or source of content is stil differentiating in content.. You might swap the term content with data but the essence remains equal.

Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701566 01/02/18 07:51 PM
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Last edited by Retsacnal; 01/02/18 10:21 PM.


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
David-G #2701569 01/02/18 07:56 PM
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What was happening a couple years ago, and presumably will start again, is prioritization based on bulk. ISP's didn't know or care whether you were watching a major Hollywood feature, soft core porn, or somebody's cat video. They were giving the small users like Wikipedia or Piano World priority so that only the streaming users would be inconvenienced, not everybody. The real problem was that streaming video grew to overwhelm the ISPs' infrastructure.

If you really want to, go ahead and conflate bulk with content.


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Re: No search results on Google from Piano World
WimPiano #2711088 02/03/18 12:47 AM
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I'm with WimPiano on this one. This is a shame. PianoWorld contains so much useful knowledge, but now the average Internet user (to say nothing of longtime forum members) can't search this amazing resource.

We need to do a bit more research to figure out why the site is no longer indexed by Google. The AdWords and net-neutrality theories aren't likely explanations. As someone with some expertise in this field, I'd be happy to work with Frank or whomever to try and find a solution. In the meantime, I'll shoot a note over on the Google Webmaster forums in case there's anything obvious that we're missing.

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