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Re: Pianoteq 6 or others?
peterws #2709301 01/27/18 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by Davdoc
While I would love to use either of my acoustic pianos in our living room to practice, in reality my true practice time is often late night when everyone is asleep. Thus I use my MP11 the most.

However I found the built-in sound, heard through my headphone (Shure SRH440, configured when I got the package from Kraftmusic), very unsatisfying. The most simplistic way to describe the sound is that it is very "pointy", and certainly lacking timbre change across the volume range, that no matter I tweaked the settings it still gets tiring and uninspiring to continue practice much longer. Certainly my laziness plays a factor here too.



The MP11 isn't a cheap piano; I've just been having a few pops with my Pianoteq; something's a tad wrong with the settings.
If I bought a plain digital, I would probably have gone for a Kawai. . . .So it's rather sad to read this!


I think with Kawai it does vary with what sounds they have included, the main concert grand in the MP11 has the old sound of the EX only, I really never liked it, raspy, rough as well, whatever, some unpleasant words come to mind, that no virtual technician could fix (for me). I think the shigeru is a real improvement though in terms of tonal character, which is present in the SE model, but it is all relative. As far as hardware piano go, for me, the Nord pianos sound much nicer still with more character, but in the end of it is a matter of taste. While the shigeru is an improvement, for me other stage pianos come to mind that I would prefer ( from a sound perspective), even if the action is tops in its class at that price point.

Given DaveDcoc dislike of the MP11 sounds that should perhaps be a hint that he likes a VST with more midtone character and less harshness. Karvala gave an overview of that at one time somewhere describing of a lot of VSTs in terms of tonal character, DavDoc could research them one by one.

If I were in his shoes I'd just start with pteq, because it just works well, most would agree the sound key connection works well throughout on most systems, latency is not a problem on most systems ( provided setup properly) and since he likes the sound anyway, why not.


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
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My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Pianoteq 6 or others?
Alexander Borro #2709316 01/27/18 09:37 PM
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I have the Vintage D, Pianoteq, and CFX (full version) loaded in Mainstage on my Mac so I can press one of 3 buttons on my keyboard and instantly switch between them as I play. I would say that 90% of the time I'm playing the Vintage D. You just can't beat it for its combination of all-round sound and playability in my opinion. I've got a bunch of other VST's (Ivory II, Ravenscroft, etc. see signature) but rarely use any of them.

Last edited by Macy; 01/27/18 09:38 PM.

Macy

CVP-409GP, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Pianoteq, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad Pro/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere
Re: Pianoteq 6 or others?
Davdoc #2709322 01/27/18 10:13 PM
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Apart from Pianoteq, I’ll go for Bechstein Digital, Impactsoundworks Pearl, Wavesfactory Mercury and the new WholeSounds Baldwin. Or indeed VI Labs Ravenscroft, as it’s half off this week.

Re: Pianoteq 6 or others?
Macy #2709360 01/28/18 02:26 AM
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Me too! The people who created the Vintage D did a brilliant job. That piano has been around for, what, six years? And in the interim a boatload of new pianos have arrived. But few can rival the Vintage D. It's a winner. (It actually sounds like a piano. Imagine that.)

One piece of advice for a VST newbie. The Grandeur is also a very good choice. And it's much easier to control than the Vintage D, whose dynamic range is tremendous. A rank amateur pianist (like me) has a more difficult time controlling that range. The Grandeur is much easier to manage. (But try to manage the Vintage D anyway. Control of dynamics has to be learned.)
Originally Posted by Macy
I have the Vintage D, Pianoteq, and CFX (full version) loaded in Mainstage on my Mac so I can press one of 3 buttons on my keyboard and instantly switch between them as I play. I would say that 90% of the time I'm playing the Vintage D. You just can't beat it for its combination of all-round sound and playability in my opinion. I've got a bunch of other VST's (Ivory II, Ravenscroft, etc. see signature) but rarely use any of them.

Re: Pianoteq 6 or others?
peterws #2709405 01/28/18 09:07 AM
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Thank you all for the great advices! I'll have a lot to think about.

Indeed at one point I was about to post a question regarding choosing between getting a open-back headphone and getting a software piano. Since trying Pianoteq Demo was free, I did that first. I don't doubt that a good headphone will make a difference.

One thing that pleasantly surprised me was that the realism, in terms of dynamic range (both volume and timbre) reacting to my playing touch, on Pianoteq 6 was very close to my acoustic pianos. I could hear a little latency, but it was barely noticeable and did not bother me. Short of those "silenced notes" on Demo version, I didn't notice dropped notes either.

Originally Posted by peterws


The MP11 isn't a cheap piano; I've just been having a few pops with my Pianoteq; something's a tad wrong with the settings.
If I bought a plain digital, I would probably have gone for a Kawai. . . .So it's rather sad to read this!


For peterws: if you have tried Kawai's digital offering and liked it, don't let my post deter you. If you haven't, don't either. I got this MP11 just about 1 year ago, and it was the main factor that I could finally get back to some reasonable practicing after more than a decade of hiatus. Everyone's sense and taste for tone and touch is different. MP11's sound samples are, based on what I could gather from the Internet, less favored in general compared to newer Shigeru Kawai-based offering. The touch is fine, but I can do faster trills on either of my acoustics. Someone on PW did chide me lightly for comparing MP11's touch to an acoustic grand's.

In a way, I applaud to MP11's sensors. Playing through Pianoteq did capture my movements well. Maybe MP11's sound engine cannot produce difference enough that my ears could hear, but the difference was recorded faithfully regardless.

Last edited by Davdoc; 01/28/18 09:09 AM.

1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
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