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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711315
02/03/18 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TimR

But what I was trying to suggest is there may be a continuum between the person who is deeply interested and finds practice exhilarating, and the students who find a good bit of it a chore but do it anyway.

Adults?

People who are successful at learning an instrument and playing it well don't get there in six months, or even a year.

Why would any adult continue slogging away, year after year, when it is "a bit of a chore"?

Where is the pay-off?

The only thing I can think of is that these "chores" give results that work in other areas of music, and the rewards there are worth the chore.

But there has to be a reward somewhere, because no one is paying us to play/practice, and lessons cost money.


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711318
02/03/18 10:20 PM
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I've read through the most recent posts since mine this morning. What I have caught on to, Gary, is that you are talking about when this "thing we do when learning to play the piano" is considered an unpleasant chore, a duty. There is indeed an attitude out there which goes this way, so now I know what you are saying. I agree that this would cause most students to not stay long with that activity.

I'm thinking further about this. I'd say that many don't know how to practise or work toward skills and I'd venture that numbers of teachers are also clueless in this regard. I am careful usually not to use the word "technique" because a lot of people will then conjure up hours of "playing scales, chords, and etudes over and over" as if that in itself taught anything! "Reading" -- you get notebooks, pencils, labeling things. These things are tedious, boring, and above all, ineffective. This is where the "unpleasant chore" idea starts. And then you "have to" play boring beginner pieces. None of it with purpose, or learning, or discovery. This won't last long, I agree.

But we can fall from the frying pan into the fire, one wrong replacing the other, when the ee-zee-fun thing takes its place. Here the teacher (or method book) wants to avoid music being a chore, presenting any difficulties or any degree of work --- the nature of this approach should be apparent in the name I gave it. Because we do need the skills and knowledge; that is how we become self sufficient. It is through these two things that we can actually put our own vision into the music we are playing. This, too, won't last long- especially for the student who did originally want to learn. It is as satisfying as weeks of candy floss (esp. if you don't like sweets).

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These are all skills, basics. If you do not have them, you will not play well, and sooner or later not playing well will lead to frustration, which leads to quitting.

In fact, the skills, the basics, are fascinating, if introduced properly. They are also not "chores" if approached in a good way. Some skills CAN be frustrating --- in fact extremely frustrating --- while getting a hang of them, but that is not the same as a chore when you go forward. In fact, people thrive from growth and challenges.

The thing that I can relate to especially is the rejection of the idea of "tedious, uninspiring chore".

Quote
Scott Houston has part of this right. He's very good at hooking people. He sells them on the idea that what he teaches is easy and will lead to success. I personally believe it's smoke in the mirror, but at least people START with him and start OUT feeling that they CAN do what he is teaching.

I really don't know. I started lessons on a new instrument and had never had lessons before. I did amazingly for about 8 months. I passed an exam with flying colours. And then I was struggling and everything crashed. The things that I (didn't) learned could not sustain anything. The subsequent struggles are still a very unpleasant memory, because I am not the kind of student to give up. I believe strongly that the first six months of lessons are probably the most important ones, because everything else tends to reside on them. What happens if you have to start over and relearn? It's rhetorical, since I've lived it.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711336
02/04/18 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by outo


But I frequently read about how one must endure boredom and other sorts of suffering especially in the beginning. I cannot help wondering why it seems so very alien to me. What have I missed?


For you practice is like video gaming must be for a lot of kids. (It has no appeal for me, but I have relatives who play endlessly.)

So one question that occurs to me: is it live, or Memorex?

Er, sorry, wrong commercial. Is it inherent in your makeup that you are drawn to music and see it as rewarding? Or can a person decide to approach it that way consciously?

I also remember that in my college days I developed some considerable skill practicing some activities mostly because I was avoiding doing something else that was more important.


Your post was a little cryptic for me but hopefully I got the point smile

Yes, indeed I think piano practice for me has been a bit like video gaming is for some people. I remember that in the early years I had trouble concentrating at work because I was already waiting to get to my piano and practice some tricky thing after work. My job at the time was a little boring...that does not happen anymore, I am too focused on the job.

I do have the ability to get hooked on a video game as well, but lost interest in them after a while for some reason. I guess the work required to "get into" a game just doesn't feel worthwhile.

Music on the other hand...you must be right that it is inherent for me to be drawn to music and I have a hard time imagining my life without it. Is this a requirement for success in instrument studies for an adult? I don't know. Can it be taught? I guess not, but at least the teacher can help by suggesting options to what seems boring and uninteresting to the student.

I have noticed that some people start learning the piano because they are drawn to the physical task (beginners spending weeks or months on scales or hanon and trying to get faster). This element was missing from me, it was always music first, physical skills second. Some of the latter is simply required to make the first.
Interestingly many "impossible" technical challenges became doable only after they were introduced in music, out of the context my coordination just fell short.

Then another question: Why did I find practicing so enjoyable that I could return to it day after day for years even if could not play the music in a way that I really wanted (easily and sounding wonderful)? I have always practiced carefully and mindfully trying to make something work better and never just satisfied with the current state of my ablity. I think I naturally have the right mindset for it and also already possessed the basic knowledge how to practice in a goal oriented and efficient way. I believe this can be taught to an adult, but can be a bit tedious at first, especially if the former element (pure interest in the piano as a music making tool is missing completely). I doubt it's about the amount of practice so much though. It's about those moments of invention, when you realize how a specific practice method gets you to the goal. These small moments of success are important and make you want to use the method again and again to solve new puzzles.

But I cannot stress the importance of my wonderful teacher enough: I self learned for about 3 months and quickly realized there was some secret to piano playing that I did not get. I lacked the understanding of the instrument and how one gets the piano to work for you instead of against you. That clearly can be taught even if the work required for proficiency is done by the student.

Last edited by outo; 02/04/18 03:07 AM.
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711385
02/04/18 07:51 AM
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Last edited by keystring; 02/04/18 03:31 PM.
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: Gary D.] #2711397
02/04/18 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by TimR

For you practice is like video gaming must be for a lot of kids. (It has no appeal for me, but I have relatives who play endlessly.)

It has "no appeal":

Are you talking about piano, or trombone, or playing video games?

If you are talking about what you do to prepare for piano lessons, I certainly hope that none of the people who come to me feel as you seem to be saying you do. wink



Sorry. No antecedent for that pronoun - very poor writing.

Video gaming has no appeal for me. I don't know why. It seems to be designed to hook people easily, and it does that very well.

Part of it may be the social milieu. People of an age to play video games probably find most of their peers do the same, and there is some group reinforcement. People of my age may have more friends who play instruments, and that may be part of the appeal. I dunno.


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711407
02/04/18 09:27 AM
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Last edited by keystring; 02/04/18 12:37 PM.
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711442
02/04/18 12:57 PM
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Gary, did you ever think of suggesting Google Play apps, there are a bunch out there ones for reading notes, identifying scales, intervals, etc. Also, you may want to work on easy duets for a change of pace. I am motivated when I see other people play and think, I want to play like that.


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711480
02/04/18 03:33 PM
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This is a very interesting thread. It has led me to think more about practice and reevaluate my approach.

I wonder about another possible factor.

Some people derive all their reward from playing privately. They will take lessons and dedicate themselves to practice, without ever intending to perform. Maybe the knowledge that this is their path affects how they feel about practice?

That's not me. I practice for the purpose of performing better. That doesn't mean practice is necessarily painful or a chore, but it does mean I have to do it whether I want to that day or not. I'm not always driven or pulled by the music in front of me, but by the concert Sunday, etc.

Still thinking.


gotta go practice
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711487
02/04/18 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TimR
This is a very interesting thread. It has led me to think more about practice and reevaluate my approach.

I wonder about another possible factor.

Some people derive all their reward from playing privately. They will take lessons and dedicate themselves to practice, without ever intending to perform. Maybe the knowledge that this is their path affects how they feel about practice? .....
.


I have no opportunity to perform, but it does not affect how I practice


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711488
02/04/18 04:01 PM
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Tim, I think maybe people are afraid to perform in front of people. As a child taking music lessons, I had no problem playing in front of people. Now at the age of 57, I do. I started taking again 4 years ago. I wanted to play for my dad who was in a nursing home. I hired my instructor to play for the nursing home residents for Father's Day, a year ago when my dad was living. I played a duet with my instructor. I had to stop after the first page, I started to sweat and my glasses fogged, I could not see the music. Once I regrouped I was ok. I can speak in front of 100 people but have difficulty playing in front of one. I still do, but I force myself to play when given the opportunity. It is getting better, I don't have to stop in the middle of a song. I still get nervous at my lessons, the other day the instructor put on his jacket and said this room was cold and I said I thought it was too warm. We hired my instructor to play for the family for a Christmas party, I played the first song (solo), I was driven by the fact I would be playing in front of family and friends. Not playing a duet I had no one to cover for me!


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: dogperson] #2711490
02/04/18 04:05 PM
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Dogperson, you could volunteer and play at a nursing home maybe during dinner times or lunch times. The residents love when people play the piano. Also, if there is a local Veterans Affairs Medical Center you could call volunteer services and ask about playing the the Veterans in the nursing home unit. Most of the units have pianos. Also, most nursing homes have pianos as well. Just a thought!


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711494
02/04/18 04:16 PM
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I should modify my post. Yes there are opportunities to play, but not opportunities to play the classical repertoire that I study as part of my lessons. I have played for church and I have played for funerals, And have occasionally been working on a program for nursing homes, but it would not be a heavy classical repertoire.

Edited to add: The lack of an opportunity to play classical repertoire has not affected how I practice it.

Last edited by dogperson; 02/04/18 04:20 PM.
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: dogperson] #2711506
02/04/18 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by TimR
This is a very interesting thread. It has led me to think more about practice and reevaluate my approach.

I wonder about another possible factor.

Some people derive all their reward from playing privately. They will take lessons and dedicate themselves to practice, without ever intending to perform. Maybe the knowledge that this is their path affects how they feel about practice? .....
.


I have no opportunity to perform, but it does not affect how I practice


I don't want to analyze you or put thoughts in your head, but this is what occurs to me as a possibility.

You do music for music's sake, and it occasionally allows or requires you to perform.

I perform, therefore I must practice music.

Are these the same function? Maybe. I don't know.

People do yoga, and there is no performance ever. People do ballet, and they use it somewhere. Physically the effort may be similarly but the intent is not. Maybe?


gotta go practice
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711512
02/04/18 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TimR


Sorry. No antecedent for that pronoun - very poor writing.

Video gaming has no appeal for me. I don't know why. It seems to be designed to hook people easily, and it does that very well.

Part of it may be the social milieu. People of an age to play video games probably find most of their peers do the same, and there is some group reinforcement. People of my age may have more friends who play instruments, and that may be part of the appeal. I dunno.

Tim, if you are only thinking of action games, then you missed my larger point.

There are some really cool games like "The Room". They are not action. They are not timed. You have to work out puzzles, figure out how to unlock things, solve things. My wife and I play such games for hours.

I loathe things that are timed, that make me feel pressure. The great thing about music is that you don't have to play anything fast until you are ready. You are in control. Perhaps not so true in an ensemble. wink

I have talked repeatedly of "losing time". Of course I am talking about losing track of time, but my phrase is a little bit more humorous, and it gets the attention of students. It's the opposite of watching the clock, which is what people do when they are doing something they think they HAVE to do or SHOULD do but can't wait to be done with it.

Last edited by Gary D.; 02/04/18 05:20 PM.

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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: DFSRN] #2711520
02/04/18 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DFSRN
Gary, did you ever think of suggesting Google Play apps, there are a bunch out there ones for reading notes, identifying scales, intervals, etc.

They don't seem to work for my students.

What I do for reading notes is WAY ahead of what the apps do.

But for the other stuff, I don't know. I've suggested different things for students, and they do not seem to get anywhere with them. For one thing, too much misinformation.

Number one problem: I don't believe that hearing and playing should be separated into two different things. I'm busy teaching people to PLAY scales and arpeggios and chords-

If they can't play them, they aren't going to hear them. This does not mean that if they can play them, they WILL hear them.

I'll repeat what I have said many times - singers have the worst connection between anything written and what they are trying "hear", unless they play an instrument. So I do not believe singing or ear training works without playing an instrument.


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711524
02/04/18 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TimR

I don't want to analyze you or put thoughts in your head, but this is what occurs to me as a possibility.

You do music for music's sake, and it occasionally allows or requires you to perform.

I perform, therefore I must practice music.

Are these the same function? Maybe. I don't know.

The payoff is a successful performance, publicly.

How is that different from working in a way that allows you to play something right, just for yourself?

You can spend 95% of your time or more just playing music, when you play piano. I know because that's what I've done for many decades. You will run into scales, arpeggios and chords all over the place. Just learning and perfecting music is enough.

Trombone is different.

I'm not saying that you don't need scales and such on piano, only that the relationship to technical studies and music you want to play is not the same.

If you are not interested or absorbed in what you are practicing/playing , the results will be inferior. If your practice is a chore, then you won't find out what is wrong until your perform, and it starts to go wrong.

That doesn't mean that every minute is fun, just that while you are playing or working, you need to be focused like a laser to get maximum results, and your attitude needs to be to do whatever it takes to master what you are supposedly focused on.

I can't focus the same way on something I either hate or do not like doing. I don't understand how you can.


Last edited by Gary D.; 02/04/18 05:41 PM.

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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711564
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Last edited by keystring; 02/05/18 12:13 AM.
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711568
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I don't perform regularly, but whenever I do, my practice tends to become more focused and driven with purpose.

So, for me, performance is still important.


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: AZNpiano] #2711594
02/05/18 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
I don't perform regularly, but whenever I do, my practice tends to become more focused and driven with purpose.

So, for me, performance is still important.


Yep. I perform rarely, and only as an accompanist. But if I never performed at all, I don't think I would have the incentive to practice. Sometimes I only see the music (if there even is music) a day or day before the performance. Then my practice is very much more focused.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711630
02/05/18 09:22 AM
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Some time ago here I posted a link to that Ted Talk that said to keep improving you need to move back and forth between the practice domain and the performance domain, and be aware of when you're in each.

That makes sense to me. Performance doesn't have to mean public performance, it can be just a different mode.


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711643
02/05/18 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TimR
Some time ago here I posted a link to that Ted Talk that said to keep improving you need to move back and forth between the practice domain and the performance domain, and be aware of when you're in each.

That makes sense to me. Performance doesn't have to mean public performance, it can be just a different mode.

That's quite a personal definition of "performance".

Shouldn't the goal always be to play something so that it sounds good?


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: Gary D.] #2711651
02/05/18 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by TimR
Some time ago here I posted a link to that Ted Talk that said to keep improving you need to move back and forth between the practice domain and the performance domain, and be aware of when you're in each.

That makes sense to me. Performance doesn't have to mean public performance, it can be just a different mode.

That's quite a personal definition of "performance".

Shouldn't the goal always be to play something so that it sounds good?


It's not my original definition of performance. I'm trying to be more inclusive, to include those who will never play in public.

That link we discussed before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKACzIrog24&list=PLOGi5-fAu8bEUnIt2TJMHaJFF5CkOROZz

differentiated between learning mode where risks are taken and error is not punished, and performance mode.

It was a useful distinction but not profound.


gotta go practice
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711655
02/05/18 11:44 AM
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The guy in the Ted talk is using the word "performance" according to one specialized meaning, and it means roughly to do an action. I just heated a cup of coffee in the microwave, added milk and sweetener, and stirred it. This is an action that I performed. If I do this every day the same way, unthinkingly, and every day it's too hot so that I have to wait half an hour, then I'm continually in a "performance" mode. In other words, it is "mindless routine actions". This is what he is targeting.

The other side of this is when I see my coffee is too hot, I pay attention to how many seconds I set the microwave to. I might go trial and error, decreasing it by 10 seconds until I get the right temperature, or I might calculate it if I'm a mad physicist. This is "learning mode". Once I have figured out how many seconds will give me the perfect coffee temperature, I will use those numbers every time I make myself coffee. When I do that, I'm back in "performance mode".

He could have said "People who don't mindlessly go through routines forever, but instead observe what they are doing and the results, and then do things differently, these are the people who gradually improve."

He could have said that. He could have come up with a cute maxim like "Think before you act. Observe after you act. Adjust." but then he would not have sounded as scientific.

It's sort of "d'uh" though, to be honest.

He is not pushing "performance" in the sense of going out in public. He is pushing the idea of observing, analyzing, experimenting, so that you can change your routine things, and thereby improve.

I deleted both my posts yesterday because each time it was as if nothing had been said. I put a lot into the first one and have simply saved it to the computer. This thread frustrates me immensely at time.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711662
02/05/18 12:23 PM
02/05/18 12:23 PM
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I'm assuming that this thread is about students and learning, because the original title is about child students and adult students. I'm a student primarily and my goal is learning. I originally answered the question about "difference in practising" depending on whether you are performing by stating that one practises toward a goal, and if that goal is to improve a given piece, you will do the same things whether that piece will be performed or played for yourself. The goal is still the improved piece, and the same actions must be taken.

But I don't think the question was asked to find out what we thought, but more by way of bringing forth pre-existing ideas.

Now going to the actual issue of "performance" as in recitals, for example, with a view of my goal of learning (why I would take lessons at any time).

First: The goal I have stated frequently is acquiring "skills and knowledge". No, I am not a nerdy whatsit to think that way. I'm enough of a musician to be aware that if I know what I don't know, can do things I can't yet do, and hear in new ways, my playing will be better. Also, I will be able to tackle pieces with ease that I couldn't before. Here is a SIMPLISTIC example: for 40 years I didn't know how key signatures worked. I was stuck in about 3 major keys and their relative minors. If this part isn't clear, please let me know. smile

2nd: To get at these things, I need to do particular things. I might want to play pieces or etudes that contain things that I need to practice and improve, and I might not necessarily push these pieces to their limit, since this is my goal. I may need to study things I will use, in theory. It may be good for me to go through a variety of pieces for what I can learn in each one, but not stay forever or exclusively on any of them. This is the OPPOSITE of what can happen when "performance" is on the horizon. If I have a teacher who is big on performance, we may spend a huge amount of time on that one "performance piece". I may also find that in order to polish that performance piece, I have to spend 90% of my time on it. That leaves 10% of my time for the learning activities that I want to do.

I've highlighted some key things in the hopes that it will actually get read.

Starting with the last highlighted statement: If I am prevented from doing these other activities that bring about my learning because I have to focus on polishing a piece for a performance, I experience this as demoralizing - it's a real "downer". Where before I couldn't spend enough time at the instrument, now I have to force myself. I have to force myself to stay with "the piece that has to be polished for performance", must prevent myself from doing the things I want to do instead in music, and that conflict also drains me of energy.

Additionally (please don't ignore and just quote a random sentence here and there) -- My personal experience has been that when I gain skills, knowledge, the ability to hear, that these have the side effect of making every new piece I learn to be easier to learn, and to sound better. For me personally, aiming toward performance is putting the cart before the horse.

This is also why a performance (such as recitals) as a main goal are such disincentives. I've been there. I would practice these pieces that were put forth in order to "motivate" me, struggle with the same things. Yes, I could spot-solve a problem in this and that measure. But while at the music stand I thought, "If only I could put these two pieces away, and work on the skills I need." Or in the last 6 weeks before a recital, what I dubbed "performance season", I counted the days until January when for a couple of months the "real things" could be worked on.

This is why "performances" (as in, in front of others --- not as in the clinical meaning of "performance" as an action) do not get me to practice more, but the opposite. If, otoh, I have worked on the music things that motivate me, which also includes discovering things in a piece, developing it, and eventually enjoying it, then this may cause me ---- after the fact ---- to perform it. As in, "Come share my delight."

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711663
02/05/18 12:25 PM
02/05/18 12:25 PM
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I pretty well expect neither of my posts will be read. I don't have the time or energy to shorten them. I also expect that even if I do, either they'll be ignored or something cherry picked out of context. But just maybe I have expressed something that somebody else is experiencing and thinking. If so, it's also for them.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: keystring] #2711669
02/05/18 12:43 PM
02/05/18 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
The guy in the Ted talk is using the word "performance" according to one specialized meaning, and it means roughly to do an action. I just heated a cup of coffee in the microwave, added milk and sweetener, and stirred it. This is an action that I performed. If I do this every day the same way, unthinkingly, and every day it's too hot so that I have to wait half an hour, then I'm continually in a "performance" mode. In other words, it is "mindless routine actions". This is what he is targeting.

.


That was not his intent. A surgeon performing operations is not doing routine mindless actions. Neither is Beyoncé at a concert. But they have another mode of functioning, or should. (If Brady had practiced catching a football instead of just throwing it last night's game might have ended differently.)

It is a distinction I found useful. It's also a reminder that the things we do very well every day as part of our job or other activities can be improved, and tend to stagnate unless we put some effort in.

Also, in the flow of an action, careful self observation is very difficult, and can interfere with good performance. Some of that is best reserved to dedicated improvement activities.

You live in Canada - there's no way your coffee takes a half hour to cool down, even if you boil it. <humor>

One item I took from his talk was the idea that the learning zone should be a safe one, protected from risk. It isn't easy to do that in all settings, particularly with very sensitive students.


gotta go practice
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711671
02/05/18 12:52 PM
02/05/18 12:52 PM
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Thanks for responding, Tim.

I guess I didn't get that much out of the talk because that is already how I function, including in my profession. If by any chance you were pushing performing (in public) as a thing that will get a person to practice more, that doesn't work for me, and I have tried to explain why.

Could you do me a big favour and read what I wrote, and try to understand it. It can't be done in 5 minutes. wink I never know whether I've been able to bring things across.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711674
02/05/18 01:07 PM
02/05/18 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TimR
You live in Canada - there's no way your coffee takes a half hour to cool down, even if you boil it. <humor>

lol laugh

Talking about risk-taking -- ice-covered walkways and sidewalks. I haven't dared be outside without a ski pole and even then, must step gingerly. Piano practice feels much less risky atm.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: TimR] #2711716
02/05/18 04:22 PM
02/05/18 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by TimR
Some time ago here I posted a link to that Ted Talk that said to keep improving you need to move back and forth between the practice domain and the performance domain, and be aware of when you're in each.

That makes sense to me. Performance doesn't have to mean public performance, it can be just a different mode.

That's quite a personal definition of "performance".

Shouldn't the goal always be to play something so that it sounds good?


It's not my original definition of performance. I'm trying to be more inclusive, to include those who will never play in public.

That link we discussed before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKACzIrog24&list=PLOGi5-fAu8bEUnIt2TJMHaJFF5CkOROZz

differentiated between learning mode where risks are taken and error is not punished, and performance mode.

It was a useful distinction but not profound.

If you play for your wife/girl friend/partner,

if you play for someone in your family,

or a friend,

or if you record yourself,

to me it's all the same...


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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2711729
02/05/18 04:56 PM
02/05/18 04:56 PM
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In the Ted talk, the word "perform" was used in a specialized way, and simply means "action". If I'm a secretary typing out letters, that is my "job performance". The term "job performance" (mediocre job performance, enhanced job performance) may be more familiar in everyday language. Another familiar version of this usage is when we say someone "performs a task". If you change a lightbulb, that is the task you are performing.

The main idea is that if our secretary is a trained typist, she doesn't have to stagnate at her present trained level. She can improve the level of her work by learning more efficient ways, observing herself, not just mindlessly do what she has always done. That part is deemed "learning" as opposed to the routine "job performance". You may perform the task of changing a lightbulb better if you remember to bring the bulb with you before you climb up the stepladder, and also, if you have that stepladder. If you almost fell off a rickety box last time, and you observe that having a stepladder might be a good idea next time, that's the "learning" part in the talk.

It has nothing to do with what we think of as "performing" in front of a crowd, a friend, or your goldfish, or even yourself. The word "perform" simply refers to an action that you do for some purpose.

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