2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
75 members (anotherscott, Abdol, AndrewJCW, Bluthendorfer, bohemiatotal, 17 invisible), 868 guests, and 551 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
#2706573 01/19/18 05:20 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
Is it a disaster to put Protek MPL-1 grease on knuckles, instead of applying Teflon powder?

A young fellow called James has done that on his newly acquired Steinway D. He's been doing a very nice series on Youtube, looking at different high-end pianos, as research for buying one for a studio.

He's now got a nice little-used secondhand Steinway D. But in his latest video, he applies Protek MPL-1 grease to knuckles, and front and center rail pins.

I don't like the idea of that heavy grease on knuckles! I think he's gotten mixed up, because he refers to it as Teflon powder. In the video though, you can see clearly that it's Protek MPL-1. Protek MPL-1 on grand knuckles and pins 12 mins 20 seconds in.

How would he get that stuff off the knuckle doeskin?

Best regards,

David B.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706578 01/19/18 05:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,275
K
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,275
This is bad news. DO NOT PUT GREASE OR LIQUIDS ON GRAND KNUCKLES!
Maybe can use paint thinner to clean it out but knuckles will never be the same. They may be functional but never again as new.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706583 01/19/18 05:51 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
Keith, thank you for that. It's exactly what I thought. I'm always willing to think that someone may have gotten advice from a technician with greater expertise than mine, but I didn't like the idea at all, and I realised when young James in the video was speaking of Teflon Powder, but showing a pot of Protek MPL-1, that there was a mix-up somewhere.

What kind of paint thinner do you mean? Just ordinary turpentine substitute? Or some kind of laquer thinner?

Last edited by David Boyce; 01/19/18 05:52 PM.
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706588 01/19/18 05:58 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
I've just checked YouTube again, and I see that young James has taken the video off. I had left some feedback there. So the link above won't work. Oh dear, I hope that having just bought a great Steinway D after a long period of looking, he hasn't given himself a lot of extra work and expense.

Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706596 01/19/18 06:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,275
K
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by David Boyce

What kind of paint thinner do you mean? Just ordinary turpentine substitute? Or some kind of laquer thinner?


Yes. My first choice would be turpentine substitute. Then Acetone or lacquer thinner.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706637 01/19/18 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,010
G
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,010
I'm familiar with James and his playing. He's a very good pianist - kind of a child prodigy, and he's made many, many videos of his playing and about pianos. It's sad to see the someone has given him such misguided advice.

Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706642 01/19/18 11:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 414
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 414
I have found James Shawcross's videos, "In Search of the World's Greatest Pianos", on YouTube to be very interesting in comparing the sounds of highend mostly European pianos. In these videos he doesn't say much, but he plays very well on these performance grade pianos and records them with excellent audio equipment. I have found these videos to very helpful in learning to discern different manufactures' approachs to scaling. I highly recommend them. It's regrettable that he has stepped out of his usual video role and is giving out such patently inaccurate and potentially very harmful and costly advice.

Last edited by Sanfrancisco; 01/19/18 11:52 PM.
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706667 01/20/18 02:19 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 217
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 217
I was in this situation a while back! Have a look at this old thread -

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2593382/re-greased-rollers.html#Post2593382

Car body shop panel wipe (de-greaser) and a nail scrubbing brush to get rid of the grease, then a good application of French chalk - all turned out well in the end smile


Started work at the Blüthner piano re-building workshop in Perivale, UK, in 1989. Self employed since 2000. Learning something new about pianos every day... smile

http://www.hamiltonpianos.com/
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706686 01/20/18 04:35 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
Ady, that's very useful to know, about the body shop panel wipe, thank you! I was thinking of a very stiff bristle toothbrush or a soft brass wire suede brush, but the nail brush sounds great. I will read the thread you have linked to.
Why French Chalk rather than Teflon Powder?

Last edited by David Boyce; 01/20/18 04:36 AM.
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706688 01/20/18 05:14 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 217
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by David Boyce

Why French Chalk rather than Teflon Powder?


Mainly because I have about 50 years worth of French chalk in store...!! smile


Started work at the Blüthner piano re-building workshop in Perivale, UK, in 1989. Self employed since 2000. Learning something new about pianos every day... smile

http://www.hamiltonpianos.com/
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706689 01/20/18 05:25 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
As good a reason as any!

Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706746 01/20/18 12:47 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,768
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,768
Originally Posted by David Boyce
I've just checked YouTube again, and I see that young James has taken the video off. I had left some feedback there. So the link above won't work. Oh dear, I hope that having just bought a great Steinway D after a long period of looking, he hasn't given himself a lot of extra work and expense.


The video is still available here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv_iAy4XThY&feature=youtu.be

However it appears that James or his father has disabled comments because of the negative comments.

I wanted to at least suggest that the error he made was to apply Protec MPL-1 instead of Protec CLP (that is, if teflon powder was not his first choice)

I was impressed by his playing but not his headlong rush to maim his model D frown

ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706764 01/20/18 02:00 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
He had removed the Video, but then put the video back up, and argued that fluoropolymer is fluoropolymer and it's OK to use Protek MPL-1 in those ways (knuckles and key bushings).

I responded by quoting experienced technicians from here and the pianotech googlegroup, and by quoting all the piano supply house catalogues. This was to show that I was referring to industry practice, not giving my own opinion.

My responses were removed from the YouTube video comments, and there was added a comment about 'getting a life'.
Further, there was what I felt to be an unkind and churlish email to me from the individual's father.

I am sorry to have bothered everyone for their time with this. My involvement was purely altruistic, from a feeling that this grease should be removed as soon as possible and that it would be horrible if this newly acquired Steinway D got damaged.

Perhaps someone can forgive me for caring. I shall endeavour not to do so in future - at least not in that direction.

Last edited by David Boyce; 01/20/18 02:00 PM.
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706877 01/20/18 09:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,010
G
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,010
Originally Posted by David Boyce

I am sorry to have bothered everyone for their time with this. My involvement was purely altruistic, from a feeling that this grease should be removed as soon as possible and that it would be horrible if this newly acquired Steinway D got damaged.

Perhaps someone can forgive me for caring. I shall endeavour not to do so in future - at least not in that direction.


The video has now been taken down. That's a good thing. It's unfortunate that they have reacted this way. I hope you don't feel too bad David. It's not only a shame that he did this to his own piano, but that other might watch and do costly damage to their own pianos.

Last edited by GC13; 01/20/18 09:37 PM.
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706895 01/20/18 10:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,687
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,687
Right is right and wrong is wrong. You did right David.

Some people are simply too emotionally immature to handle even constructive criticism and they recoil. Not your problem. Hopefully they will grow up.

Simply being able to play the piano does not give them all knowledge. It's those who have the humility to admit a mistake who are to be admired and respected. There is still time for improvement.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706976 01/21/18 08:00 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,768
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,768
I hope he doesn't learn about WD40 crazy

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles
David Boyce #2706995 01/21/18 09:16 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,598
Quote
I hope he doesn't learn about WD40


Hahaha!


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
KAWAI CA79 METRONOME
by Giovanni Zanini - 01/16/21 01:43 PM
DIY Acoustical Digital Piano - algorithm
by stemPianist - 01/16/21 01:04 PM
First post. Question about Baldwin model R
by Gregory Waits - 01/16/21 11:29 AM
Garritans CFX Sample Player ???
by DigitalMusicProduc - 01/16/21 11:16 AM
The College Experience
by MinscAndBoo - 01/16/21 10:40 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,293
Posts3,047,341
Members100,078
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4