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#2706573 - Yesterday at 05:20 PM Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,248
David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,248
Scotland
Is it a disaster to put Protek MPL-1 grease on knuckles, instead of applying Teflon powder?

A young fellow called James has done that on his newly acquired Steinway D. He's been doing a very nice series on Youtube, looking at different high-end pianos, as research for buying one for a studio.

He's now got a nice little-used secondhand Steinway D. But in his latest video, he applies Protek MPL-1 grease to knuckles, and front and center rail pins.

I don't like the idea of that heavy grease on knuckles! I think he's gotten mixed up, because he refers to it as Teflon powder. In the video though, you can see clearly that it's Protek MPL-1. Protek MPL-1 on grand knuckles and pins 12 mins 20 seconds in.

How would he get that stuff off the knuckle doeskin?

Best regards,

David B.

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#2706578 - Yesterday at 05:40 PM Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: Apr 2010
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kpembrook Online content
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kpembrook  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,730
Michigan
This is bad news. DO NOT PUT GREASE OR LIQUIDS ON GRAND KNUCKLES!
Maybe can use paint thinner to clean it out but knuckles will never be the same. They may be functional but never again as new.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
Editor Emeritus, Piano Technicians Journal
#2706583 - Yesterday at 05:51 PM Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
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David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Scotland
Keith, thank you for that. It's exactly what I thought. I'm always willing to think that someone may have gotten advice from a technician with greater expertise than mine, but I didn't like the idea at all, and I realised when young James in the video was speaking of Teflon Powder, but showing a pot of Protek MPL-1, that there was a mix-up somewhere.

What kind of paint thinner do you mean? Just ordinary turpentine substitute? Or some kind of laquer thinner?

Last edited by David Boyce; Yesterday at 05:52 PM.
#2706588 - Yesterday at 05:58 PM Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: May 2007
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David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,248
Scotland
I've just checked YouTube again, and I see that young James has taken the video off. I had left some feedback there. So the link above won't work. Oh dear, I hope that having just bought a great Steinway D after a long period of looking, he hasn't given himself a lot of extra work and expense.

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#2706596 - Yesterday at 06:54 PM Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,730
kpembrook Online content
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kpembrook  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Michigan
Originally Posted by David Boyce

What kind of paint thinner do you mean? Just ordinary turpentine substitute? Or some kind of laquer thinner?


Yes. My first choice would be turpentine substitute. Then Acetone or lacquer thinner.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
Editor Emeritus, Piano Technicians Journal
#2706637 - Yesterday at 10:57 PM Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 142
GC13 Offline
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I'm familiar with James and his playing. He's a very good pianist - kind of a child prodigy, and he's made many, many videos of his playing and about pianos. It's sad to see the someone has given him such misguided advice.

#2706642 - Yesterday at 11:40 PM Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 97
Sanfrancisco Offline
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Sanfrancisco  Offline
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CA
I have found James Shawcross's videos, "In Search of the World's Greatest Pianos", on YouTube to be very interesting in comparing the sounds of highend mostly European pianos. In these videos he doesn't say much, but he plays very well on these performance grade pianos and records them with excellent audio equipment. I have found these videos to very helpful in learning to discern different manufactures' approachs to scaling. I highly recommend them. It's regrettable that he has stepped out of his usual video role and is giving out such patently inaccurate and potentially very harmful and costly advice.

Last edited by Sanfrancisco; Yesterday at 11:52 PM.
#2706667 - 21 hours ago Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 130
Adypiano Offline
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Adypiano  Offline
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Surrey, UK
I was in this situation a while back! Have a look at this old thread -

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2593382/re-greased-rollers.html#Post2593382

Car body shop panel wipe (de-greaser) and a nail scrubbing brush to get rid of the grease, then a good application of French chalk - all turned out well in the end smile


Started work at the Blüthner piano re-building workshop in Perivale, UK, in 1989. Self employed since 2000. Learning something new about pianos every day... smile

http://www.hamiltonpianos.com/
#2706686 - 19 hours ago Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,248
David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,248
Scotland
Ady, that's very useful to know, about the body shop panel wipe, thank you! I was thinking of a very stiff bristle toothbrush or a soft brass wire suede brush, but the nail brush sounds great. I will read the thread you have linked to.
Why French Chalk rather than Teflon Powder?

Last edited by David Boyce; 19 hours ago.
#2706688 - 18 hours ago Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 130
Adypiano Offline
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Adypiano  Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 130
Surrey, UK
Originally Posted by David Boyce

Why French Chalk rather than Teflon Powder?


Mainly because I have about 50 years worth of French chalk in store...!! smile


Started work at the Blüthner piano re-building workshop in Perivale, UK, in 1989. Self employed since 2000. Learning something new about pianos every day... smile

http://www.hamiltonpianos.com/
#2706689 - 18 hours ago Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: May 2007
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David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Scotland
As good a reason as any!

#2706746 - 11 hours ago Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: May 2013
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Beemer Offline
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Beemer  Offline
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Scotland
Originally Posted by David Boyce
I've just checked YouTube again, and I see that young James has taken the video off. I had left some feedback there. So the link above won't work. Oh dear, I hope that having just bought a great Steinway D after a long period of looking, he hasn't given himself a lot of extra work and expense.


The video is still available here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv_iAy4XThY&feature=youtu.be

However it appears that James or his father has disabled comments because of the negative comments.

I wanted to at least suggest that the error he made was to apply Protec MPL-1 instead of Protec CLP (that is, if teflon powder was not his first choice)

I was impressed by his playing but not his headlong rush to maim his model D frown

ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
#2706764 - 9 hours ago Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,248
David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,248
Scotland
He had removed the Video, but then put the video back up, and argued that fluoropolymer is fluoropolymer and it's OK to use Protek MPL-1 in those ways (knuckles and key bushings).

I responded by quoting experienced technicians from here and the pianotech googlegroup, and by quoting all the piano supply house catalogues. This was to show that I was referring to industry practice, not giving my own opinion.

My responses were removed from the YouTube video comments, and there was added a comment about 'getting a life'.
Further, there was what I felt to be an unkind and churlish email to me from the individual's father.

I am sorry to have bothered everyone for their time with this. My involvement was purely altruistic, from a feeling that this grease should be removed as soon as possible and that it would be horrible if this newly acquired Steinway D got damaged.

Perhaps someone can forgive me for caring. I shall endeavour not to do so in future - at least not in that direction.

Last edited by David Boyce; 9 hours ago.
#2706877 - 2 hours ago Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 142
GC13 Offline
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GC13  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by David Boyce

I am sorry to have bothered everyone for their time with this. My involvement was purely altruistic, from a feeling that this grease should be removed as soon as possible and that it would be horrible if this newly acquired Steinway D got damaged.

Perhaps someone can forgive me for caring. I shall endeavour not to do so in future - at least not in that direction.


The video has now been taken down. That's a good thing. It's unfortunate that they have reacted this way. I hope you don't feel too bad David. It's not only a shame that he did this to his own piano, but that other might watch and do costly damage to their own pianos.

Last edited by GC13; 2 hours ago.
#2706895 - 1 hour ago Re: Protek MPL-1 Grease on Grand Knuckles [Re: David Boyce]  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 958
P W Grey Online content
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P W Grey  Online Content
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 958
New Hampshire
Right is right and wrong is wrong. You did right David.

Some people are simply too emotionally immature to handle even constructive criticism and they recoil. Not your problem. Hopefully they will grow up.

Simply being able to play the piano does not give them all knowledge. It's those who have the humility to admit a mistake who are to be admired and respected. There is still time for improvement.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)

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