Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Welcome PianoTV members!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
95 registered members (Bach_ingMaddie, anotherscott, Anita Potter, Ancore, Bambers, 25 invisible), 1,158 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2705581 - Yesterday at 11:09 PM Virtual piano softwares and velocity curves  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 49
lunobili Offline
Full Member
lunobili  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 49
Japan
Hi,
I have a question about virtual piano softwares and velocity curves, but before asking let me give you some context regrading my question.

I have been learning piano for four years with a teacher right from the beginning. My piano is a four years old Roland DP90se. I have recently changed teacher. Lessons with my previous teacher were given on an upright acoustic piano and honestly I never felt a huge difference between my piano and the one at the music school, but lesson with the current teacher are given on a grand piano and I certainly feel the difference. I am not sure how to express the difference, but I would not think it is the action. It is more the "sensitivity" of the pianos. I find my digital piano way more forgiving than the grand piano. One example is a passage where a note played with my thumb on the grand piano definitely sounds uneven compared to the other notes in the passage, but playing on my digital the unevenness is way less pronounced. Another difference is the length of the sustain.

I installed the trial version of Pianoteq to see if I can get a "sensitivity" similar to the one of the grand piano, but I found that it heavily depends on the velocity curves. The problem I have with adjusting the velocity curves is that I do not want to adjust the way the piano plays to my playing style. I want to adjust my playing style to the way a proper piano plays, therefore, I would like to have some velocity curve that is right for my piano and than adapt myself to it. I followed the setting wizard in Pianoteq, but it feels like it is adapting the software to my touch (or lack of it) rather than adapting the software to the MIDI response of the piano.

Finally, here is the question. Am I correct to assume that every virtual piano software will need some sort of calibration to adapt to the response of the MIDI controller? Is there any virtual piano software that "plays right" out of the box so that if it does not sound right I know it is my technique and not some miss-configuration?

I hope the question is clear.

Thanks,
Luca

Last edited by lunobili; Yesterday at 11:37 PM.
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#2705608 - 6 hours ago Re: Virtual piano softwares and velocity curves [Re: lunobili]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 446
Osho Offline
Full Member
Osho  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 446
Portland, OR, USA
Originally Posted by lunobili
Finally, here is the question. Am I correct to assume that every virtual piano software will need some sort of calibration to adapt to the response of the MIDI controller?

I am not a VST and veolocity curve expert - but for both the VSTs that I use regularly (Pianoteq 6 and Garritan CFX) with Kawai CA-67 - I leave the software at the default normal velocity curve. After a few weeks - I find that to be just the 'right' setting - perhaps I got used to that and changed my habit or my ears got used to it - but either way, I don't feel the need to play with velocity curves any more.

Originally Posted by lunobili
Is there any virtual piano software that "plays right" out of the box so that if it does not sound right I know it is my technique and not some miss-configuration?

This is a very subjective question as 'plays right' may mean different things to different people. Both the above VSTs sound right to me on the default normal velocity curve - but it may sound not OK to someone else.

Osho

#2705672 - 53 minutes ago Re: Virtual piano softwares and velocity curves [Re: lunobili]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,129
Charles Cohen Online content
4000 Post Club Member
Charles Cohen  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,129
Richmond, BC, Canada
I did some work with Pianoteq, adjusting the velocity curve to my PX-350.

The first attempt used Pianoteq's calibration sequence, and I wasn't completely happy with it.

The second attempt was like this:

. . . I found the softest touch that I could consistently play, and noted its MIDI velocity (say, 10);

. . . I found the loudest touch that I could consistently play (without pounding with my fists), and
. . . noted its MIDI velocity (say, 115).

. . . Then, I custom-drew a velocity curve:

. . . . . a straight line from (0, 0) to (10, 0) (along the left-hand bottom edge of the graph);

. . . . . a straight line from (10, 0) to (115, 127) (diagonal, rising left-to-right from the bottom of the graph,
. . . . . .. to the top of the graph)

. . . . a straight line from (115, 127) to (127, 127) (along the right-hand top edge of the graph).

That worked nicely. Adjusting to my teacher's acoustic upright was very quick, at the start of a lesson. I haven't played a grand recently.

Another thing to try:

, . . Pianoteq has a "Dynamics" slider.

It changes the dynamic range of the (virtual) piano. With high "dynamics", "pp" playing is _very_ soft, and "ff" playing is _very_ loud.

If you want to exaggerate note-to-note differences (to simulate the grand piano you use), just raise the "Dynamic" setting. I've found that 60 dB is just about unplayable, but it shows up any irregularity in my playing.

Many of the "stock" presets are around 40 dB; the "cinematic" presets are around 30 dB.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2705675 - 37 minutes ago Re: Virtual piano softwares and velocity curves [Re: lunobili]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 438
mcoll Offline
Full Member
mcoll  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 438
Europe
I have pretty much the same action (pha4-premium which is mechanically the same) and I would also add to adjust the velocity on the piano first.
Before using vsts, I kept it on H1 setting for playing on my piano, but when I switches to vsts, I noticed that I could only reach 120 velocity on H1, through very hard pounding and not consistently. I switched the piano velocity to medium and now it outputs velocities from 0 to 127, which can be reached through some serious pounding, but less so than 120 on H1.
Afterwards, you can try altering the curve in small increments to see where it gets you, and also playing with the dynamic range. I find that a dynamic range of 30-35db is more realistic, as I haven't played an acoustic which was so silent in pianissimo as to be barely heard, like it happens with some vsts.
The velocity curve I use in pianoteq is very slightly convex upwards, but I have yet to made final adjustments, since I have changed some aspects of my setup recently.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
CLEARANCE SPECIALS!
Save Big In our online store now

In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
SummerKeys
Maine Coast Music Vacation for Adults
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Grand newbie - knuckle question
by Beemer. 01/17/18 04:46 AM
Why 9'
by PhilipInChina. 01/17/18 03:26 AM
Late Pessimistic Liszt Pieces
by Batuhan. 01/17/18 01:28 AM
Parents Don't Want Me to Become a Piano Teacher
by RyanThePianist. 01/17/18 01:24 AM
Virtual piano softwares and velocity curves
by lunobili. 01/16/18 11:09 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,827
Posts2,687,787
Members89,464
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0