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Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: m1ch4L] #2705341
01/16/18 02:53 AM
01/16/18 02:53 AM
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Motif XS 7 - Mac everywhere... since 1984... ;-)
Fender Strato - Logic Studio - NS-10 M Studio
acoustic upright piano

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Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: emmaco] #2705351
01/16/18 03:38 AM
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I also tried all of the DP mentioned here.
Concerning the CLP 685, the "clicky" action was not in my taste. I agree the bosendorfer needs improvement (maybe in future models ?)
But the main reproach I make (and nobody speak about that), is the "speackerish" sound reproduction.
I'am not a sound engineer, and so I don't know how to express it clearly, but it is just a feeling : my ears kwnow exactly where the sound comes from, even though the sound (the sample and sound engine) is very good.
May be it is because the sound coming from the top of the cabinet (tweeter, I think) is set too high in volume : I can touch this sound, I can point my finger toward the exact position of these tweeters, hidden behind a black tissue.
I compared with my old CLP 170 : 4 speakers in front of the legs and 2 tweeters on top : the tweeters a set quite low, just for the high harmonics : almost all the sound comes from below, and I think it feels more natural, the sound seems to come from a larger area.
On top of that, the CLP 170 had 2 rear speakers for ambiant (resonnance) sound, which was AMAZING. It is a shame that Yamaha stopped this technology.
On the other hand, with the N2, the sound seems to come from a large area in front of you, like in real grand. Your imagination can see the strings vibrating in front of your eyes, it was so amazing.

In my opinion, the main advantage of "cabinet DP" should be the sound reproduction, (otherwise, why not a good keyboard+speacker+computer+VST ?) : the advantage of the cabinet is rigthly the possibility to reproduce the sound projection of a real piano.
That is why I am interested in Kawai approach with their soundboard : this concept is exactly what I expect from a cabinet DP : to exploit the advantage of the cabinet.
I think DP manufacturer should spend more time and money in sound reproduction, as they can't compete with sample quality of VST and their GB of memory.

Last edited by olivier du nord; 01/16/18 03:42 AM.

Yamaha YUS1 Transacoustic TA2
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: m1ch4L] #2705354
01/16/18 04:26 AM
01/16/18 04:26 AM
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Yes, the speakers have been a perennial dud in console pianos. If they want to collect a large sum for the sale of a console piano then it ought to have sound reproduction better than that of a slab. But it doesn't.

I've never heard a CLP170, nor the latest CLP685. But your description of the latter is oh so familiar.

I find it interesting, though, that the tweeter volume is set too high in the CLP685. In my CLP240 the tweeters are nearly inaudible. All the sound comes from below. Not good.

And in all the years since Yamaha has done nothing to improve the sound system. So I'm leaning toward Kawai.

The sound performance of the previous generation Kawais did not impress me, although the action did. I'm left to wonder what the new 98 sounds like. I guess I'll have to make the trip.

Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: m1ch4L] #2705358
01/16/18 05:21 AM
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I have my CLP-685 since friday last week and i'm having a blast compared to the CA-98. After a couple of hours playing, i barely notice any clickiness anymore. Also the heaviness has gone. This effect doesn't happen if you test it in the store. It takes some time to become familiar with this action.


Yamaha NU1X
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Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: Tyr] #2705379
01/16/18 08:15 AM
01/16/18 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyr
I have my CLP-685 since friday last week and i'm having a blast compared to the CA-98. After a couple of hours playing, i barely notice any clickiness anymore. Also the heaviness has gone. This effect doesn't happen if you test it in the store. It takes some time to become familiar with this action.

I demoed the CLP-685 a few weeks ago, and didn't like the action at all - it wasn't so much the clickiness, but that it felt like you had to push the keys past a 'notch' to get them moving... This made playing pianissimo VERY challenging!

I'm sure that you can get used to any action in time, but I'd be concerned about what happens when you return to a real piano - the transition may be challenging!

Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: m1ch4L] #2705382
01/16/18 08:22 AM
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I think i won't get into a situation where i have to sit at a real grand for the next years. so it's not a problem right now. It's like shoes. You have to walk in them to getting comfortable with. wink

Last edited by Tyr; 01/16/18 08:23 AM.

Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: Tyr] #2705393
01/16/18 08:56 AM
01/16/18 08:56 AM
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That's good to know Tyr - and the whole issue of key actions is such a subjective and personal one, all that matters is that you're happy with it (my NU1X has its own problems!)

Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: MarkH13] #2705479
01/16/18 02:37 PM
01/16/18 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkH13
I'm sure that you can get used to any action in time, but I'd be concerned about what happens when you return to a real piano - the transition may be challenging!


I've had the CLP-685 for a few weeks now and it's made the transition to my teachers grand so much easier. Previously when I'd go to his piano I'd have such a difficult time getting the dynamics correct and hitting trills consistently. It's made a world of difference. I've also tried a few grands with lighter actions than my instructors and found it equally easy to transition. On the other hand after practicing 100% on the 685, when I go back to play my Kawai ES110 (which I had been playing since they were introduced) it's like playing a toy, not in a bad way, but it's so light and easy. I'm definitely convinced that getting the 685 was key to being able to play more accurately on a variety of acoustics. I'm really pleased with it so far. My teacher noticed the improvement after just a week of playing on it, and this was unprompted by me.

As to the directionality of the speakers, I find it's only noticeable when sitting playing, though I'm "getting used to it." However, when sitting away listening, the directionality goes away and listeners are fully convinced it's producing sound like an acoustic. Also, I'll add that the binaural sampling with headphones on is really quite effective.

Last edited by squidbot; 01/16/18 02:40 PM.


Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor, Grieg Lyric Pieces Book 1
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: m1ch4L] #2705499
01/16/18 03:43 PM
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@ Squidbot: Did you noticed that the binaural sampling will go through the speakers while you have your headphones connected and set the speakers to always on?


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: Tyr] #2705548
01/16/18 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyr
@ Squidbot: Did you noticed that the binaural sampling will go through the speakers while you have your headphones connected and set the speakers to always on?


I hadn't tried that! Cool easter egg smile Does it actually sound good (well I guess I can try myself)



Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor, Grieg Lyric Pieces Book 1
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: squidbot] #2705565
01/16/18 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by squidbot
Originally Posted by Tyr
@ Squidbot: Did you noticed that the binaural sampling will go through the speakers while you have your headphones connected and set the speakers to always on?


I hadn't tried that! Cool easter egg smile Does it actually sound good (well I guess I can try myself)


You probably don't want to do that. The way binaural audio works is to pipe the specific sound each ear hears, only to that ear. So for the effect to work, you need to be using closed-back headphones (no Sennheiser HD598s for this) or earbuds, which isolate the sound for each ear.

If you have open-back headphones, the sounds and their timing will bleed to the other ear, interfering with the effect. If you play the binaural audio through speakers at the same time, you'll pollute the source to both ears.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: m1ch4L] #2705890
01/17/18 10:47 PM
01/17/18 10:47 PM
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Glad to see the range of opinions on these models. I spent half a day at a Yamaha dealership a month ago and walked away with a strong preference for the CLP-685. I too was surprised that there was such a difference between the 685 and 675 considering that counterweights were supposedly the only difference. I noticed less of a difference between the 645 and 675 whose keybeds have entirely different brand names (NaturalWood X vs. GranTouch); their main advertised difference is the key length and pivot point.

I recognize other descriptions of the 685 from my test drive, such as the heavy touchweight and noticeable faux escapement. They didn't bother me at the time, and when I went back a week later to confirm some complaints I was reading (especially key noise, which I didn't notice as problematic at the time), they had sold their floor model. I ordered the 685 on the proviso that I'm allowed to return it if I don't like it within a week. I wonder if maybe the 685's key feel stands out not because it's better but because it's distinctive. I don't expect to be disappointed, just curious how my opinion is informed by my limited experiences with the much older dp that I'm replacing.

Yamaha's upright hybrid was astonishingly good in the store. I told myself that the 685 would be closer to a grand action, but I haven't considered carefully what I mean by that or why I'd want it. The bit about repeating keys always stuck in my mind as something I'd need once I graduate to fancier pieces, though I'm hardly there yet. I played some grands in the store and wondered if the lighter touch and louder sound would give me more expressive control someday. I still settled on the 685.

As there appear to be many Kawai fans on the forum, I'm curious to know how more people feel about the "muddy" sound of the soundboard upright models. I tried one and noticed the muddiness through the soundboard immediately, and I couldn't get it to sound better by adjusting things. I thought maybe it was broken or not set up correctly in the store. I have no doubt that it's a good piano in general, it was just weird to be put off by it so quickly. I wasn't considering it seriously or I would have paid closer attention to key action and such.


Yamaha Clavinova CLP-685 • 36-year dabbler, three-time adult learner
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: dddaaannn] #2705938
01/18/18 04:36 AM
01/18/18 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dddaaannn
I tried one and noticed the muddiness through the soundboard immediately, and I couldn't get it to sound better by adjusting things. I thought maybe it was broken or not set up correctly in the store. I have no doubt that it's a good piano in general, it was just weird to be put off by it so quickly. I wasn't considering it seriously or I would have paid closer attention to key action and such.


This is exactly what i had experienced. I tried a CA-97 before the CA-98 was released and i bought the 98 based on this test since it should exactly the same with newer tech like the better controls via touchpanel and the pianist mode. I didn't recognized this sound on the CA-97 or it wasn't really present in the store but at home i noticed it immediately and had worries if it's broken or something. At the end, i thought the environment has some negative impact on the sound but my new 685 works perfectly at the same spot.

At the end, i came to the conclusion that i simply don't like the Kawai sound at all.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: m1ch4L] #2705995
01/18/18 07:30 AM
01/18/18 07:30 AM
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All of this makes me want to get back into the shops to try the newer pianos.

My last foray was over a year ago and I tried the then-current Kawais. But no Yamahas.

My experience with Yamaha is:
- My own CLP240. The sound sux. I never use it. It's all in the VST pianos now, and has been for years.
- The next-gen 300-series CLP. Same sound. Sux.
- I've not tried the 400-series, nor the 500-series.

So I'm keen to give the 600-series a go. Gotta find a shop that carries them. (Gotta first wait for the snow to melt.)

Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: dddaaannn] #2706041
01/18/18 10:21 AM
01/18/18 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dddaaannn
As there appear to be many Kawai fans on the forum, I'm curious to know how more people feel about the "muddy" sound of the soundboard upright models. I tried one and noticed the muddiness through the soundboard immediately, and I couldn't get it to sound better by adjusting things. I thought maybe it was broken or not set up correctly in the store. I have no doubt that it's a good piano in general, it was just weird to be put off by it so quickly. I wasn't considering it seriously or I would have paid closer attention to key action and such.


is this muddyness just on the soundboard models, or on the speaker only variants, also what about headphones?

Trying to isolate down here if it's specifically the soundboard speaker system or the SK-EX sample. The latter is certainly more mellow than the yamaha CFX sample used on the clp line is.

Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: Bambers] #2706065
01/18/18 11:08 AM
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When I tried the CA98 I noticed the new Piano mode with new sound engine (SK-EX Rendering), was more "muddy" (but with very good sound in headphones) than the older sound engine of the instrument (Harmonic Imaging XL sound engine), which was more clear.
It may be due to a lot of resonnance in the new piano mode.

I would have liked to try to disconnect the sound board to see what happen with and without it ...

But we are far from the original topic of this thread ... I have opened a new thread about the CA 98 if you have more informations about it.


Yamaha YUS1 Transacoustic TA2
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: m1ch4L] #2706340
01/19/18 04:11 AM
01/19/18 04:11 AM
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For the original poster: It is pretty much up to personal tastes.
If you have tried all the models and your cents are for CLP-685, that is the most important.

A few more comments:
It might worth to check for the new CA-98 as alternative for CS-11, even if it is available in different colors only, as it has some improvements with respect to sound.
As far as I understand several comments in many topics it also might worth to ask about sound settings (briliiance, resonance, reverb etc., even volume) and then try out the pianos in person with some recommended settings...
As far as I understand, some people prefere Yamaha key actions and some other prefer others in general -- and most likely they both imitate grand piano actions, but different ones... Probably an important factor why it is much up to personal tastes.


Kawai KDP-90
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: Gombessa] #2739049
05/24/18 05:10 AM
05/24/18 05:10 AM
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Just wanted to add a few points to this thread

Some impressions of the Yamaha CLP-685

With headphones on it has a beautiful piano sound - but only the CFX grand - the other piano voices are useless especially the Bosendorfer which is horrible

Without headphones the main problem is it has to be played very loudly or else you hear the sound of the keys which are VERY loud and irritating - something you don't realise when you play it in a large noisy piano shop

So if you like to play your piano in the house at a moderate volume without headphones - forget it!

If you always use headphones - no problem (I recommend open air / open back headphones like Roland RH A30 which give and incredible sound without the feeling of 'pressure' you get from closed noise reducing headphones)

I like the feel of the keys - when you first turn the piano on it feels like the keys have to be pushed past some 'sticking' point (hard to explain) but I realised that this clears once you play the keys for a few seconds - so if you run up and down with some arpeggios it seems ok after that (I have no idea why that would be) Once that is clear it has the feel of a real piano - both the feel of the keys and the touch

The sound - in my opinion - is also less 'electronic' than many other similarly priced digital pianos I tried.

I did have a problem with the pedal unit - after a week there was a strange 'clicking' sound that came from the left of the whole wooden unit every time I pressed the pedal. The Yamaha technician came out and we upending the piano and noticed that the wire had come free of where it had been tied so it was hitting the side of the pedal unit. The pedal unit is in a big wooden box which acts like a drum and makes every tiny sound louder - so while it was upended I stuffed lots of foam in the 'box' to dampen the sound. Seemed to do the trick. I would recommend you do that with any digital piano pedal unit because they can be quite noisy

I use this piano for recording so it suits me because I need a great piano sound and I like the touch but if I didn't use it for recording I would have returned it because the keys are just SO noisy

So be warned - you have to play this either very loud or with headphones - and to be honest even when played loudly I'm not overly impressed by the sound through the speakers - but it may be just the small room I have the piano in so I cant be sure

Lastly - this piano is HUGE (it's almost an upright) and very heavy - so if you are disappointed with it it seems worse because the idea of returning it feels like a major ordeal - to re-box it etc

Before you purchase go into a piano shop and play something at a very low volume so you can hear how loud the keys are - and listen to the Bosendorfer - I don't see how Yamaha can make that a part of their sales pitch for any of their pianos - it's just a dull muffled sound!

Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: RobinHall] #2739050
05/24/18 05:23 AM
05/24/18 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RobinHall

With headphones on it has a beautiful piano sound - but only the CFX grand - the other piano voices are useless especially the Bosendorfer which is horrible

Without headphones the main problem is it has to be played very loudly or else you hear the sound of the keys which are VERY loud and irritating - something you don't realise when you play it in a large noisy piano shop

So if you like to play your piano in the house at a moderate volume without headphones - forget it!


Nearly all piano voices are really good except the Bösendorfer Samples which are underwhelming and never sound like in the promotion videos. The ballad grand is one of the best balanced samples i've ever heard on a digital.

The key noise is nothing compared to a hybrid like NV10.

Quote
I like the feel of the keys - when you first turn the piano on it feels like the keys have to be pushed past some 'sticking' point (hard to explain) but I realised that this clears once you play the keys for a few seconds - so if you run up and down with some arpeggios it seems ok after that (I have no idea why that would be) Once that is clear it has the feel of a real piano - both the feel of the keys and the touch


I know this phenomenon. I had to slide down the whole keyboard once to loose the keys every time after a break.

Last edited by Tyr; 05/24/18 05:25 AM.

Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha CLP-685 - First Impressions [Re: MarkH13] #2739094
05/24/18 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkH13
Originally Posted by Tyr
I have my CLP-685 since friday last week and i'm having a blast compared to the CA-98. After a couple of hours playing, i barely notice any clickiness anymore. Also the heaviness has gone. This effect doesn't happen if you test it in the store. It takes some time to become familiar with this action.

I demoed the CLP-685 a few weeks ago, and didn't like the action at all - it wasn't so much the clickiness, but that it felt like you had to push the keys past a 'notch' to get them moving... This made playing pianissimo VERY challenging!

I'm sure that you can get used to any action in time, but I'd be concerned about what happens when you return to a real piano - the transition may be challenging!


I tried out the CLP-685 for the first time and in comparison to my CLP-990, Yamaha has not been able to surpass it in sound and feel just yet in my opinion. I just hope mine continues on for many more years to come.


Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90
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