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Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2694640
12/06/17 01:59 AM
12/06/17 01:59 AM
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Salish Sea
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Thanks for your very thoughtful and well-informed review. Were you able to compare with any of the Yamaha AvantGrand pianos: N1, N2, N3?


”Mister Upright,” Yamaha YUS5.
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Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2694648
12/06/17 02:41 AM
12/06/17 02:41 AM
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Thanks Peter for the reply, and I was also fascinated to read your CLP 675/685 comparison. About the "sturdiness" and the weight technique: I wonder if the limitation isn't that a console digital's cabinet is simply not massive enough. I just checked: the CLP 685 weighs 89kg in polished finish and 675 weighs 71kg (and my Kawai CA 78, 75kg). In contrast, even the most basic Yamaha b1 upright weighs 193kg and most uprights top 200kg, not to mention the grand pianos.

I can see in your videos that you are not a massive person, but even then, the weight of a grown man's arms bearing down on something that weighs less than 100kg would likely cause some movement of the cabinet. Since the optical sensors measure the movement of the action relative to the cabinet, this may be where inaccuracies creep in.

A solution may be to attach something - maybe an accelerometer - that can measure the movement of the cabinet itself; maybe the digitals already have that?


Kawai CA 78 / Sennheiser HD 559

Current projects
Bach, Prelude and Fugue in F sharp minor BWV 883 (WTC2)
Mozart, Sonata in E flat major K282
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2694668
12/06/17 05:20 AM
12/06/17 05:20 AM
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Colin Miles Offline
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A very interesting review from someone who prefers a 'heavy' action. Yes - the problem of 'rocking' digitals when playing loud is noticeable. Actually not true on my latest piano - just tried it.

Last edited by Colin Miles; 12/06/17 08:22 AM. Reason: additional comment

Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2694674
12/06/17 05:40 AM
12/06/17 05:40 AM
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Pettzo, I also want to add my thanks for the explicit post with your reasoning, comparison, and context. We rarely get to know the ability and education of the persons posting and sometimes it can be very relevant. Good luck with your career and I hope you'll enjoy using the instrument you chose.

PS. It would've been interesting to hear your impressions on the CA98 with the new sound engine or an upcoming CS12. Also, just out of curiosity, impressions on the Avangrand N1 and Novus NV10 would be interesting, despite them being in a whole different price range.

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Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2694683
12/06/17 06:51 AM
12/06/17 06:51 AM
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Pettzo, my thanks as well. It was a pleasure and very insightful to read a review from a professional pianist. This is why so many discussion around the "best" and "most authentic" action on a DP are non-productive. There is no such thing as an ideal action nor such thing as a standard feel on a real acoustic. The best action is the one that fits the needs and skills of the player.

Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: arc7urus] #2694698
12/06/17 08:21 AM
12/06/17 08:21 AM
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Colin Miles Offline
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Originally Posted by arc_turus
Pettzo, my thanks as well. It was a pleasure and very insightful to read a review from a professional pianist. This is why so many discussion around the "best" and "most authentic" action on a DP are non-productive. There is no such thing as an ideal action nor such thing as a standard feel on a real acoustic. The best action is the one that fits the needs and skills of the player.



Absolutely.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alohaneko] #2694766
12/06/17 11:23 AM
12/06/17 11:23 AM
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JohnSprung Offline
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Originally Posted by Alohaneko
: I wonder if the limitation isn't that a console digital's cabinet is simply not massive enough.


Perhaps that could be tested merely by adding a lot of weight to it -- just stack a lot of books on top.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: JohnSprung] #2694795
12/06/17 01:19 PM
12/06/17 01:19 PM
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ha Maybe worth an experiment? If there's one thing I have in great abundance, it's books.

(It was the move last year, in which I had to sell my Yamaha U3, that brought home just how many *** books I have.)

But then - I can visualise this disaster scene in which an edifice of books, piled high on top of my Kawai, tumble and fall to the thunderous chords of the Chopin C-minor Prelude eek


Kawai CA 78 / Sennheiser HD 559

Current projects
Bach, Prelude and Fugue in F sharp minor BWV 883 (WTC2)
Mozart, Sonata in E flat major K282
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alohaneko] #2694796
12/06/17 01:38 PM
12/06/17 01:38 PM
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Celestis
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Originally Posted by Alohaneko
But then - I can visualise this disaster scene in which an edifice of books, piled high on top of my Kawai, tumble and fall to the thunderous chords of the Chopin C-minor Prelude eek

I had the very same image in my mind when I read his proposal. laugh

Also, be careful, we don't know whether the top of a DP is built sturdy enough to carry 20+kg of weight.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2694798
12/06/17 01:51 PM
12/06/17 01:51 PM
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mcoll Offline
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Well, my HP504 seems to be holding up quite well. It had 2 LSR305 monitors + 6kg worth of display for 2 years. Now it has the Eris e8 (twice as heavy), and soon 6.7kg display (when I find a long enough cable). Hope I won't have any surprises, but that hasn't been the case so far. Or maybe I should just get some wall mounts to be on the safe side...

Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2694812
12/06/17 03:15 PM
12/06/17 03:15 PM
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Portland, OR, USA
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@petzzo: Thank you for your insightful review and beautiful playing - much appreciated.

I would be curious to hear your opinion of the included CFX and Bosendorfer sounds.

Thanks,
Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Osho] #2694821
12/06/17 03:34 PM
12/06/17 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
Osho

STOP (mis)using Osho's name. You offend me and many other people connected with Osho and his work.


Yamaha AvantGrand N2 / Sennheiser HD 598 / Sennheiser HD IE 80. Previous DP's: Kawai CA 95 / Korg C 720 / Korg LP 350
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Dutch Dhamma] #2694852
12/06/17 05:10 PM
12/06/17 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dutch Dhamma
Originally Posted by Osho
Osho

STOP (mis)using Osho's name. You offend me and many other people connected with Osho and his work.


You're too delikatne for yourself. He is not offending anyobe. Osho was a controversial figure, probably drug addicted, and he did a lot of bad thing to the spritualship.

Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: petzzo] #2694902
12/06/17 08:14 PM
12/06/17 08:14 PM
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Jitin Online content
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Wow interesting, I'm no concert pianist but today I was trying kawai es8 and Yamaha p255 and I like better the p255, similar to you I like the heavier action and sound and was surprised because everyone likes es8 action and sound better


P155
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2695026
12/07/17 08:07 AM
12/07/17 08:07 AM
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Maartin Offline
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Dutch Dhamma - by telling people to stop using the name of their choosing you deeply offend me and I'm sure many other people. Will you therefore stop doing it?

Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2695079
12/07/17 11:19 AM
12/07/17 11:19 AM
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JohnSprung Offline
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So I looked up Osho, here's his music:

https://youtu.be/qfab2CJ64mk?list=RDqfab2CJ64mk&t=18

I don't see what the offense could be.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Jitin] #2695086
12/07/17 11:45 AM
12/07/17 11:45 AM
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Beakybird Offline
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Originally Posted by Jitin
Wow interesting, I'm no concert pianist but today I was trying kawai es8 and Yamaha p255 and I like better the p255, similar to you I like the heavier action and sound and was surprised because everyone likes es8 action and sound better

Yamaha makes a very solid product. There's nothing wrong with being in the minority.

Dutch, I would let go of this Osho thing. My dog's name is Kiki. It turns out that Kiki is a swear word in Filipino, and the name has raised a few eyebrows among Filipinos I've met. Nevertheless, her name will remain Kiki.


Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.
Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: JohnSprung] #2705515
01/16/18 04:43 PM
01/16/18 04:43 PM
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emenelton Offline
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung

So I looked up Osho, here's his music:

https://youtu.be/qfab2CJ64mk?list=RDqfab2CJ64mk&t=18

I don't see what the offense could be.



I know this is old news and I am not trying to restart anything or be disrespectful but I think the other person is a Hindu Guru, which might explain the fervor

Re: Kawai CA 78, Yamaha CLP 685 and Casio GP 300 what to choose? [Re: Alexmos] #2793417
12/20/18 11:08 AM
12/20/18 11:08 AM
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If I do it once more I demand the title "Thread-Necromancer" on this board!

I remembered (and found with a little help) this thread again, when trying the CLPs again in the last few days. What was interesting was, that at first I really did not like the 645 and the 685 some weeks ago. At the 685 I even sat down, played 10 seconds and left, 645 quite similar.

Then last week I was playing the 645 in a store again (since someone told me "play everything ther is") and noticed that:
a. I liked it quite much, I would not say that I LOVE it, but it was the first one, I also liked the same when trying it again yesterday.
b. what was really funny, was that I noticed after a short while of playing (allthough mostly on the 645). I had the feeling that for some reason my fingers were able to move faster and more precise ON the 645 and on other pianos. Its quite hard to explain, but it seemed that my fingers "learned" faster on the 645, for whatever reason.

Since I figured out that almost no DP sounds perfect natively and that the action is whats most important to me (with acceptable sound), AND that the purpose of my purchase is to get a lot better in playing, the CLPs (most likely the 645 due to budget reasons came back to my mind). This may not be what the opinion on this thread was 100% about, but it adds to my guess that one should try the CLPs with their "heavy keys" maybe more than once/longer smile

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