Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
How It All Really Began
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
114 registered members (ando, AZNpiano, anotherscott, Bambers, akc42, 26 invisible), 1,403 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD #2704579
01/13/18 12:43 PM
01/13/18 12:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 93
V
Vadesriux Offline OP
Full Member
Vadesriux  Offline OP
Full Member
V
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 93
Sometimes when you want too much something things seem go the wrong way.
After much waiting and antecipation the Kawai ES8 made its way to my house. While I was unwraping it I noticed that the plastic film that protected it were already quite crumpled with two separated and tape glued parts protecting the sides. Also the styrofoam that protected the ES8 sides was broken in several places. Okay.. I assumed that due to the piano weight and transport it could break.
But as I have already some experience shopping online I decided to try the keys without even turning it on..
As I was playing key by key soon found out that one of the black keys made a strange noise when depressed. Tried a few more times and again the same thing. Took a good look at the piano and it seemed to be perfect on the outside. No scratches or dents whatsoever.

As the piano is supposedly new I decided to not even call for technical assistance and like so returned it to the shop.
All in all I got the feeling that a demo unit or a B-stock ES8 had been send to me... I did not buy a B-stock ES8.

My Christmas Yamaha Montage 6 (2600 euros) also came with broken styrofoam pads and 2 keys with defect. Back to the shop...

Getting to the point:
These are quite expensive products and brands MUST: 1) Make all efforts to ONLY let these keyboards be packed after intensive Quality Control checking, if needed fining local manufacturers for each product lefting with QC defects - and no, I am not being too radical; 2) Changing the packing materials radically. Styrofoam is not even near the correct material to pack such expensive items that travel thousands of miles and suffer bumps and falls on the way. If we pay a LOT for these itens they must be packed propperly. So YES Yamaha and Kawai, spend MORE packing your high precision keyboards.

After all my eBay sold items always travel to the buyer with trully sturdy and thick protection materials inside the box. If I can do it so Yamaha or Kaway can do it too.
The Montage 6, when I opened the box, only had two styrofoam side protectors plus a thin plastic sheet covering the keyboard. The whole space left inside the box had NONE protection at all besides the card of the box itself!!! And we are talking about a 2600 euros precision instrument. Almost 3 months of a not-so-bad sallary...!

So no I am not being too radical...


Last edited by Vadesriux; 01/13/18 01:41 PM.
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2704608
01/13/18 02:35 PM
01/13/18 02:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Granyala Offline
Full Member
Granyala  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Yeah, packaging often sucks. I had ordered Hard disks and almost got a heart attack when opening the box and seeing the nonexistent protection.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6.1 / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2704629
01/13/18 03:32 PM
01/13/18 03:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 489
San Diego, CA
S
SoundThumb Online content
Full Member
SoundThumb  Online Content
Full Member
S
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 489
San Diego, CA
Vadsriux,

Sounds like you ran into two instances of bad luck right in a row. Sorry to hear that. I've also received a keyboard that was clearly previously opened and then put back and sold to me as new. Very frustrating.

But I wanted to respond to your description of the way keyboards are packaged. Packaging a keyboard with styrofoam only at the ends and and nothing in the middle is exactly the right way to package it. Think about the package laying on a table with about half of it sticking out over the edge and more packages piled on top of the end that is on the table. Now suppose something gets dropped on the end that is sticking out, or something bumps into that end. Some of the bump is absorbed by the styrofoam and the rest of the energy goes into crushing or deforming the box. But as long as the bump is not so violent that the box is completely crushed and the keyboard hits the table edge, the keyboard is well protected. Now think about the same experiment, but this time with additional styrofoam in the middle of the box. Now when the end of the box gets bumped, none of the energy goes into crushing the box. All of the energy of the bump goes into bending the keyboard. This can seem counterintuitive until you think through the physics of what actually happens. The purpose of packaging is to protect what is inside the box without depending upon the strength of the thing being packaged.

By the way, hope you are having so much fun making music with your new keyboards that the frustration is already disappearing in the past. Happy New Year!


[Linked Image]
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2704636
01/13/18 04:14 PM
01/13/18 04:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David Farley  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
The two times I've purchased keyboards new they were double-boxed by the seller. Meaning, their box, with the manufacturer's box cushioned within.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2704642
01/13/18 04:43 PM
01/13/18 04:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,978
Northern England.
peterws Offline
6000 Post Club Member
peterws  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,978
Northern England.
My DGX was double boxed. A pain to unpack, but Yamaha deemed this lowly instrument worthy of it. . . . . makes you wonder how their minds work. I guess they sell so many DGXs that they don't want returns and are willing to make darned sure of it.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2704647
01/13/18 05:15 PM
01/13/18 05:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 93
V
Vadesriux Offline OP
Full Member
Vadesriux  Offline OP
Full Member
V
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 93
Hi SoundThumb and all the guys here.

Only to put this subject a bit more in context - which by the way is in my opinion responsible for a LOT of trouble us clients go through when purchasing a digital piano with its delicate inner mechanisms -, I will tell you about when I bought a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 MIDI controller. 690 euros, so considerable less than an MP11 (2200 euros), a ES8 (1450 euros), a FP90 (1700 euros), or a CA98 (3200 euros).

The KK61, which is German made and only weights 7kg, came boxed with a different kind of styrofoam - a black one -, which is considerable less prone to shattering like the white styrofoam does. As a matter of fact in order to break it you have to put quite a lot of effort. Also, besides the top ends of the keyboard, the middle part had a thick "Belt" of this same material protecting the keyboard. And all this to protect a 600 euros keyboard...

So this is just an example of being perfectly possible to use better materials to protect quite expensive keyboards and prevent us clients of going through the nightmare of returning - waiting for a new one - receiving it - checking everything again - NOT well.. - returning once more - cicle.

I leave a request to KAWAI James to pass this message through to KAWAI headquarters so they can start using better quality materials when shipping their quite expensive and heavy instruments. I am certain that this will be a good thing for everyone.

Thank you.


Eduardo
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: peterws] #2704676
01/13/18 07:37 PM
01/13/18 07:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David Farley  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted by peterws
My DGX was double boxed. A pain to unpack, but Yamaha deemed this lowly instrument worthy of it. . . . . makes you wonder how their minds work. I guess they sell so many DGXs that they don't want returns and are willing to make darned sure of it.


Now that you've said this, I guess the outer box on mine was also Yamaha's. I just assumed it had been repacked before shipping.

Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2705720
01/17/18 12:41 PM
01/17/18 12:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Granyala Offline
Full Member
Granyala  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
So, I am now member of the club.

My MP7-SE had 3 black keys that were completely stuck and one white key that made weird scratching noises.
Packaging seemed fine from the outside, but one of the end styrofoam pieces was broken.
My guess: the packaging dudes put the instrument on the side, despite the inscription stating otherwise.

I really hope the second one is intact, as I would like to enjoy it for more than 10 Minutes before repackaging and returning.

frown


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6.1 / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2705733
01/17/18 01:38 PM
01/17/18 01:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,402
North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
6000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,402
North Carolina
I'm concluding that I'll never want a piano shipped to me by a courier service.
Instead:
  • Buy it at the piano store.
  • Inspect before purchase.
  • Expect delivery by the store's transportation group.
  • Inspect upon delivery to the home.
  • Reject if not perfect.

Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2705736
01/17/18 01:43 PM
01/17/18 01:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Granyala Offline
Full Member
Granyala  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
If the second one has another defect, that is what I will be doing.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6.1 / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2708739
01/26/18 06:17 AM
01/26/18 06:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Granyala Offline
Full Member
Granyala  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Just because I need to vent (I know unproductive):
Got my second MP7-SE today, same story:
No visible damage to the packaging.
Broken styrofoam on one end.
Stuck Key (only one this time): B2.

Ordered a refund, I'm going to buy locally now b/c delivery service is obviously incapable of handling sensitive equipment properly.
Either that, or KAWAIs QC sucks even more than we all fear.

One good thing: UPS will fetch it on Mondays, so at least I get a weekend of VST testing in.

Last edited by Granyala; 01/26/18 06:18 AM.

The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6.1 / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2708751
01/26/18 07:31 AM
01/26/18 07:31 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 555
K
karvala Offline
500 Post Club Member
karvala  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 555
Dear oh dear, that's not good. As these are essentially pianos (in terms of mechanism), you'd think they would employ specialist delivery companies who know what they're doing.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2708761
01/26/18 08:22 AM
01/26/18 08:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Granyala Offline
Full Member
Granyala  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Yup.
One would think that. But it's apparently cheaper to just send units back and hope for the best instead of hiring specialists.

Be that as it may, I am seriously overthinking my choice anyway.
Didn't imagine that VSTs would work this easily. It was -literally- basically "plug and play". No issues with latency (set to 10ms) or interruptions at all.

Meanwhile, the rebound noise of the RH-III is pretty noticeable. Maybe I will opt for the VPC-1 after all?


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6.1 / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2708787
01/26/18 10:23 AM
01/26/18 10:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 93
V
Vadesriux Offline OP
Full Member
Vadesriux  Offline OP
Full Member
V
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 93
Hi Granyala,

My already returned ES8 also came with smashed styrofoam ends. When it was delivered I found out why. The delivery guys place the boxes on the floor upright.... It is easier for them to pick-drop-pick these heavy boxes placing them upright, I can understand that. But for us it is.... GAME OVER :O)

As these pianos are really heavy their weight literally and eventually smashes the styrofoam to pieces.... What this does to the physical internal mechanisms one can only guess. Probably nothing good.


Last edited by Vadesriux; 01/26/18 10:25 AM.

Eduardo
Re: Manufacturers PACKING quite expensive gear... BAD [Re: Vadesriux] #2708788
01/26/18 10:30 AM
01/26/18 10:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
Granyala Offline
Full Member
Granyala  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 319
Celestis
I doubt that the piano would break if it was placed upright. The Styro might crack, yes but the internal workings should be able to withstand that. However if the driver hops off the ramp and onto the hand truck, that's when you have upright placement + shock force.

Been playing for 2 hours straight (let's see if I can move any fingers tomorrow. laugh ), delivery guy will fetch it on Monday.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6.1 / Pearl Alto Flute 201

Moderated by  Piano World 

New In Our Store!
New In Our Store!
A few of the many new items we've added to our online store.
(PianoSupplies.com is a division of Piano World)
wrap around sunglasses with music notes
Wrap around sun glasses with music notes


88 keys, 10 fingers, no problem
88 Keys, 10 Fingers, No Problem


Bass Clef Hat
Bass Clef Hat

Tons more music related products in our online store!
(ad)
Pianoforall
PianoForAll
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Logistics of dropping a student
by Brinestone. 07/23/18 12:57 PM
Free Jazz Lesson Hangout this Wed. 7/25 w/Dave Frank
by Dfrankjazz. 07/23/18 10:14 AM
OT - but cute, I hope
by Rich Galassini. 07/23/18 09:59 AM
An irresistable bar [measure]
by Fareham. 07/23/18 09:17 AM
Digital pianos with good “organ touch”
by MarioPf. 07/23/18 08:38 AM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Steingraeber
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics186,550
Posts2,733,625
Members90,627
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1