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Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? #2704319
01/12/18 04:05 PM
01/12/18 04:05 PM
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Gombessa Offline OP
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I called a large Kawai dealer to ask about the NV10, and they said they just had and sold one, and are expecting more after NAMM. List price is $11,999 (USD of course).

Seems like we're off to the races.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704331
01/12/18 04:41 PM
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Well, good luck to Kawai with that!

It will be very interesting to see who here, if anyone, actually buys one.


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704336
01/12/18 05:04 PM
01/12/18 05:04 PM
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I said it in the other thread several times that the NV10 will be coming in at $12,300 just based on the advertised price on bonnersmusic.com. This makes total sense to me and is easily worth it if the Yamaha AvantGrand N2 is going for north of that. Plus, why would the NV10 be below $10,000 when the CS11 is $8,000. There was no way the NV10 wasn’t going to be several thousands of $$ more.


Kawai MP7SE
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Pologuy] #2704337
01/12/18 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
It will be very interesting to see who here, if anyone, actually buys one.


I suppose you can erase "or Kawai Novus NV10," from your signature. . .

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704339
01/12/18 05:26 PM
01/12/18 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I called a large Kawai dealer to ask about the NV10, and they said they just had and sold one, and are expecting more after NAMM. List price is $11,999 (USD of course).

Seems like we're off to the races.

Did the dealer say anything about the 'street price'?

Thanks,
Osho

Last edited by Osho; 01/12/18 05:27 PM.

Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: PianoZac] #2704344
01/12/18 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
I said it in the other thread several times that the NV10 will be coming in at $12,300 just based on the advertised price on bonnersmusic.com. This makes total sense to me and is easily worth it if the Yamaha AvantGrand N2 is going for north of that. Plus, why would the NV10 be below $10,000 when the CS11 is $8,000. There was no way the NV10 wasn’t going to be several thousands of $$ more.


Fact check: I can tell you from personal experience that the N2 can be purchased new in the US (tax free New Hampshire) for $8,000 + $100 for delivery. I suppose the comparison then would be to the N2X, which is very likely to be in the $12,000 range.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: jfl] #2704355
01/12/18 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho

Did the dealer say anything about the 'street price'?


Nothing on street price, but it seemed like there was room to negotiate. I didn't want to ask too much more without first having a chance to try the product out.

Originally Posted by jfl
Fact check: I can tell you from personal experience that the N2 can be purchased new in the US (tax free New Hampshire) for $8,000 + $100 for delivery. I suppose the comparison then would be to the N2X, which is very likely to be in the $12,000 range.


I've very recently got a similar quote on an N2. There are also similar Yamaha-sponsored discounts on the N1, N3, and even the N3X.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704364
01/12/18 06:19 PM
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It's kind of painful. Unless there's more to it than

Adjustable damper resonance
Adjustable noise gate
A few additional and different sample library sets
Improved headphone sound

The N2X is not really worth the speculated $4000 premium over the N2. I'm really hoping that there is something else as I will feel like a bit of a sucker as I'm forking over the cash.

There's always the NV10. I'm currently leery about jumping on that until I see a bunch of owner reviews (and of course I have an extended tryout or two). I know that the Avantgrands are solid.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704373
01/12/18 07:04 PM
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In germany the novus is set for 8.999€ which is roughly 11.000$. To be honest, this was the price i've expected for that instrument.


Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Tyr] #2704392
01/12/18 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyr
In germany the novus is set for 8.999€ which is roughly 11.000$. To be honest, this was the price i've expected for that instrument.


Does that 8.999€ include standard 19% VAT rate? In the US I think retail prices typically include all US import duties and fees but then retailers typically add say 0%-10% "sales tax" based on state or city and maybe a few hundred $ for "delivery fees" (less "discount" as prices can get more negotiable for products some time after release).

This week a large US dealer told me he suspects Kawai has a small stash of inventory already at US HQ that will be released early February based on his experience with previous Kawai releases. But the dealer emphasized that he has not seen that inventory, does not have any inventory instore, and did not hear anything from Kawai about said stash of inventory.

He did say that he was very happy Kawai chose his shop to be distributing the NV10. He also said that he ordered several NV10s based on the "high volume" of customer inquiries calling and visiting.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: newer player] #2704396
01/12/18 07:56 PM
01/12/18 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by Tyr
In germany the novus is set for 8.999€ which is roughly 11.000$. To be honest, this was the price i've expected for that instrument.


Does that 8.999€ include standard 19% VAT rate?


Yes.


Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704401
01/12/18 08:09 PM
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So to compare apples to apples (well excluding any negotiation discount and delivery fees):

Germany
7562€ + 1437€ Tax = 8.999€
9,226$ + 1752$ Tax ~11.000$

US
11,999$ + Tax ~ 11.999$ to 13.200$

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: jfl] #2704402
01/12/18 08:15 PM
01/12/18 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jfl
Originally Posted by PianoZac
I said it in the other thread several times that the NV10 will be coming in at $12,300 just based on the advertised price on bonnersmusic.com. This makes total sense to me and is easily worth it if the Yamaha AvantGrand N2 is going for north of that. Plus, why would the NV10 be below $10,000 when the CS11 is $8,000. There was no way the NV10 wasn’t going to be several thousands of $$ more.


Fact check: I can tell you from personal experience that the N2 can be purchased new in the US (tax free New Hampshire) for $8,000 + $100 for delivery. I suppose the comparison then would be to the N2X, which is very likely to be in the $12,000 range.

Well to be fair, the N2 was over $12,000. When I bought my first N1 back in 2011 the N2 was selling for $12,999. The new N2X will be at the least right there. I paid $8600 for my first N1 in 2011 and $7600 for the second N1 in 2014. I don’t know why people on here are shocked by the price tag of the NV10. Its so similar in design and features as the N2X. Why would or should it not be priced accordingly?


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704426
01/12/18 09:25 PM
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Like I said before, it will be very interesting to see how many people here who think that $12,000 is a reasonable price for the NV10 (when it lists for $7,895 in Japan) - actually buy one.


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704488
01/13/18 04:12 AM
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Yes, I was going to point out that the Yamaha started off with a higher price. The N3 I played in a shop last week is from, what, 2013 or 2014? So it had years to go down in price. And you can hear that the sound engine is dated.

The new Kawai sound engine is in an other league. That is not even a surprise, that is just a couple of years in development progress. So if people brought the N3 etc. I do not worry that Kawai will sell the NV10. The sound engine is top notch e.g. on resonances (my pet peeve) and the acoustic-grand-piano-pedaling action of the Novus will get some people exited.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704524
01/13/18 09:25 AM
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Trying to do currency conversions is futile, different markets have always attracted different prices.

Are other DPs (avantgrands included) similarly cheaper in japan, or is the novus unusually cheap there?

My impression so far is that the novus has consistently been pitched between the N1 and N2 (and likely their X sucessors) list prices, this was clear months ago.

UK: N1 = £6k, N2 = £10k, novus = £8k. US: N1 = $10k, N2 = $15k, novus = $12k.

Yes in the US you can get some N1 and N2s for some pretty steep discounts right now but they're fairly old and due to be replaced. Even so, my impression is that the deliberate 'mark up' on US list prices is greater than it is in some other markets which is one of the reasons trying to compare via currency conversion is silly. The novus list price might be 12k, I doubt that's going to be paid by anyone not daft.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Bambers] #2704531
01/13/18 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Bambers
My impression so far is that the novus has consistently been pitched between the N1 and N2 (and likely their X sucessors) list prices, this was clear months ago.

That's also very true here in Germany. The N2 is still, after all these years, way more expensive than the upcoming NV10 and its much newer tech:

N1: 6,390€
NV10: 8,999€
N2: 11,690€
N3X: 16,999€

(all prices are actual online prices incl. 19% VAT).

So here in Germany, Yamaha doesn't seem to think (yet?) that it is necessary to give a discount on the N2, which positions the NV10 almost exactly in the middle between the N1 and the N2.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704534
01/13/18 10:13 AM
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Wow. In SoCal here, you should easily be able to find the N2 for $8K to $8.5K including delivery.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2704556
01/13/18 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Wow. In SoCal here, you should easily be able to find the N2 for $8K to $8.5K including delivery.

Honestly, an N2 at even $8500 with delivery is a heck of a deal. That's a lot of instrument for $8500, and in my opinion and experience, likely surpasses the quality of any acoustic instrument in that same range, unless a steal can be found on a quality large upright like U3, or grand. When I had my RX-2 I paid $10,000 for it in 2013 and it was a 1997 build. If I were in the market now for something like the NV10 or N2/N2X, I'd be buying the N2 at $8500 delivered.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704566
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It is a great deal, however for those of us who buy pianos and hang on to them, it can make sense to pay a premium for the very best available at the time of purchase. I expect to be playing my N2X or NV10 in 10-15 years and won’t care that I paid more for it than the N2 which has issues I”m not satisfied with today.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704732
01/14/18 04:09 AM
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Which issues do you have with the N2?

I've recently read the N1/N2/N3 have a noise gate which shut off line in if the input level is very low. Which could be a problem for people who want to run VST instruments through the N1/2/3 speaker system. This has me a bit worried because that's exactly what I'm considering to do. The NU1(X) and N3X seem to have a switch to turn the noise gate off.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704756
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I’ve had frequent access to an N2 running Pianoteq, and there has been no problem with the so called noise gate; sound from Pianoteq never cuts off. For all it’s worth, this particular piano was built in 2014. Perhaps the noise gate existed initially, and Yamaha quietly corrected it.
Yamaha has never admitted to the noise gate, never mind correcting it, but I can assure you this particular N2 ran Pianoteq through its on board speakers without any problems. The overall quality of the sound is another issue. For optimal results you’ll need to blend the VST with the AvantGrand’s internal sound.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704760
01/14/18 10:48 AM
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I can't say I've had an issue with the noise gate either on the N2, feeding Pianoteq back into the N2. The build date I have is 2016.

The other issue is the sustain pedal. I can see the problem say when a play a chord, press the pedal down and rock back and forth. You'll here the volume change up and down, as well as the pitch. However, if I play a simple progression or inversion pattern, changing the pedal each time, I don't hear any such change.

PS - I went to the store yesterday where I got the N2, and they have a January clearance going on. I didn't ask, but i wouldn't be surprised if you could get the N2 pretty cheap. I had stopped in to browse their music selection.

Last edited by bSharp(C)yclist; 01/14/18 10:49 AM.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704763
01/14/18 11:01 AM
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Thanks guys, it's good to hear you didn't experience any noise gate issues.

@Pete, why do you get better results with blending VST + internal sound over just using VST? Isn't VST supposed to be better than the internal sound?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Pete14] #2704771
01/14/18 11:38 AM
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I’m about to start running VSTs with my N1, a 2014 build, and will report any issues I may experience.
Originally Posted by Pete14
I’ve had frequent access to an N2 running Pianoteq, and there has been no problem with the so called noise gate; sound from Pianoteq never cuts off. For all it’s worth, this particular piano was built in 2014. Perhaps the noise gate existed initially, and Yamaha quietly corrected it.
Yamaha has never admitted to the noise gate, never mind correcting it, but I can assure you this particular N2 ran Pianoteq through its on board speakers without any problems. The overall quality of the sound is another issue. For optimal results you’ll need to blend the VST with the AvantGrand’s internal sound.

How can I blend the sound?


Kawai MP7SE
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704772
01/14/18 11:40 AM
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That's great PianoZac, please let us know how it goes... smile

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: PianoZac] #2704783
01/14/18 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
I’m about to start running VSTs with my N1, a 2014 build, and will report any issues I may experience.
How can I blend the sound?


I'm assuming the N1 has a line in? Just use that. You'll hear both the internal sound of the piano and PT's sound. You can also turn off the sound of the internal piano. See Local Control On/Off. Not sure if that is available on the N1 though.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: madshi] #2704788
01/14/18 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi
Thanks guys, it's good to hear you didn't experience any noise gate issues.

@Pete, why do you get better results with blending VST + internal sound over just using VST? Isn't VST supposed to be better than the internal sound?


No matter how much tweaking, Pianoteq always sounded hollow and thin through the AvantGrand’s speakers. This might have to do with the four-channel speaker system not responding well to a stereo input (Pianoteq). When you blend (mix), the on-board sound fills in the gap nicely, and you can also engage the TRS (vibrating keys); which is disabled when using the line-in.
You’ll need to fine tune Pianoteq to the AvantGrand’s sound in terms of note-per-note volume and intonation, but this is only necessary for some notes. Keep in mind that you’ll need Pianoteq Pro for note-per-note editing.
With the Novus, editing (in terms of intonation/volume) can be done from the piano; since, I believe, the Novus allows for note-per-note editing of the essential parameters: intonation and volume. In this case, the basic version of Pianoteq would do because the editing for fine tuning can be done on the Novus.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: PianoZac] #2704793
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
I’m about to start running VSTs with my N1, a 2014 build, and will report any issues I may experience.
Originally Posted by Pete14
I’ve had frequent access to an N2 running Pianoteq, and there has been no problem with the so called noise gate; sound from Pianoteq never cuts off. For all it’s worth, this particular piano was built in 2014. Perhaps the noise gate existed initially, and Yamaha quietly corrected it.
Yamaha has never admitted to the noise gate, never mind correcting it, but I can assure you this particular N2 ran Pianoteq through its on board speakers without any problems. The overall quality of the sound is another issue. For optimal results you’ll need to blend the VST with the AvantGrand’s internal sound.

How can I blend the sound?


You need to connect the line-out from your computer into the line-in of the AvantGrand (keep Local On), and then fine tune Pianoteq to the native sound of the N1 by adjusting volume/intonation on a note-per-note basis from Pianoteq Pro. You don’t need to adjust every single note. Editing/adjusting is only necessary for notes that sound slightly out of tune and/or too loud/low when mixing the two sounds (AvantGrand/Pianoteq).

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 available in US ($11,999)? [Re: Gombessa] #2704803
01/14/18 12:42 PM
01/14/18 12:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 186
M
madshi Offline
Full Member
madshi  Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 186
> Pianoteq always sounded hollow and thin
> through the AvantGrand’s speakers

That's interesting! Did you also try sampled VSTs? Same problem with those, I suppose?

BTW, have you ever tried adding external speakers? I won't be able to afford the N2, it's *WAY* too expensive here in Germany. So I'll have to make do with N1(X), and I fear the lower powered N1 speakers might need some help. Not sure, though.

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