Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
New in our online store...
Tea Light
Tea Light with Frosted Music Staff Candle Holder


-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
58 registered members (augustm, almo82, AZNpiano, 16 invisible), 952 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2734137
05/04/18 05:05 PM
05/04/18 05:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
JoBert Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
Audetto, I fear that your interpretation of Kawai Europe's response could be spot on, i.e. that the drivel about "the structure is not designed for it" (and it *is* drivel, because of course it would be possible to add such a feature to the software, especially since the 67/97 generation still had it, it was called "Open Registration" in the menu) is indeed just code-speak for "sorry, that's how it is, we are not interested in fixing this as we are already working on the next generation, so deal with it". frown

I *fear* that it could be like this, but I *hope* that maybe instead it is just code-speak for "sorry, but we here in Europe are not involved in the actual development, so we don't really know what fixes/changes are planned, if any, and even if we did, we are totally not allowed to speak about upcoming changes before they are officially released, so please understand that I have to give you a noncommittal line about "structure bla bla not designed bla bla"..."

That would at least leave a tiny sliver of hope... frown

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: JoBert] #2734228
05/05/18 03:49 AM
05/05/18 03:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 120
Germany
D
danielp11 Offline
Full Member
danielp11  Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 120
Germany
Originally Posted by JoBert
Audetto, I fear that your interpretation of Kawai Europe's response could be spot on, i.e. that the drivel about "the structure is not designed for it" (and it *is* drivel, because of course it would be possible to add such a feature to the software, especially since the 67/97 generation still had it, it was called "Open Registration" in the menu) is indeed just code-speak for "sorry, that's how it is, we are not interested in fixing this as we are already working on the next generation, so deal with it". frown

I *fear* that it could be like this, but I *hope* that maybe instead it is just code-speak for "sorry, but we here in Europe are not involved in the actual development, so we don't really know what fixes/changes are planned, if any, and even if we did, we are totally not allowed to speak about upcoming changes before they are officially released, so please understand that I have to give you a noncommittal line about "structure bla bla not designed bla bla"..."

That would at least leave a tiny sliver of hope... frown


Hello,

I am thinking about upgrading my beloved CS11 to a Novus NV10. On my CS11 I use „open registration“ all the time to make small refinements to different VT settings (including to different single keys) and then to store it back to the same registration slot or a new copy to a different registration slot.
This „open registration“ feature is therefore very important for me.

If I would not be able to adjust some VT parameters of one favorite and then store them back to the same or a new favorite in the Novus NV10 (CA98/CA78) than this would be a HUGE downgrade for me (at least concerning the software).

Maybe Kawai James can clarify this and state that I am wrong and that this or a similar functionality is still possible (which I really hope) on the new devices ( Novus NV10, CA98, CA78).

Thanks in advance
Daniel


KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2734232
05/05/18 04:40 AM
05/05/18 04:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
JoBert Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
Daniel, I know you were hoping for a "good news" to the contrary from James, but I can assure you that there is indeed no function similar to "Open Registration" in the current NV10/CA98/CA78 software. The only thing you can edit for an existing favorite is its name and its position in the list.

Fortunately for me, editing favorites is, at least currently, not important, so I can live with this regression, although I find it annoying. But if this feature is important for you, you should probably wait to see if there will ever be an update. Or if none materializes, maybe sit out this generation (hoping that the next generation again has this feature).

Personally, I think this was simply forgotten and overlooked when the old button based interface was converted into the new touch interface, and no one noticed until the release. The question is, if this mistake will ever be rectified or not. And if yes, then in this generation or only in the next?

Last edited by JoBert; 05/05/18 07:06 AM.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: JoBert] #2734367
05/05/18 07:14 PM
05/05/18 07:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 273
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
Full Member
arc7urus  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 273
Europe
Originally Posted by JoBert
Daniel, I know you were hoping for a "good news" to the contrary from James, but I can assure you that there is indeed no function similar to "Open Registration" in the current NV10/CA98/CA78 software. The only thing you can edit for an existing favorite is its name and its position in the list.

Fortunately for me, editing favorites is, at least currently, not important, so I can live with this regression, although I find it annoying. But if this feature is important for you, you should probably wait to see if there will ever be an update. Or if none materializes, maybe sit out this generation (hoping that the next generation again has this feature).

Personally, I think this was simply forgotten and overlooked when the old button based interface was converted into the new touch interface, and no one noticed until the release. The question is, if this mistake will ever be rectified or not. And if yes, then in this generation or only in the next?


I would say that being unable to edit and review the content of existing favourites makes favourite management almost useless For example, if one saves in a favourite the results of adjusting the tone or volume of individual keys in the VT and then wants to make any changes to the settings, then the only solution is to restart from scratch. It is also not possible to reuse existing settings.

The underlying issue is not some "bug" in favourites management but the fact that the current settings management lacks clear and consistent use cases. For example, in "pianist mode" the resonance level and tonal character are configured on the start screen, the Ambience level and depth is on the top level of the settings menu (it is not on the start screen, not on the VT settings and not on the Sound settings). Then there are separate VT settings, Sound settings and general settings. These settings can stored and recalled using different mechanisms (store to sound, favourites, default save) which mainly lead to unexpected or inconsistent results as already described in multiple posts on this and other threads on the forum. As such, it is for me difficult to accept that Kawai will not rectify these issues on the current generation of DPs. We are discussing the usability of Kawai's flagship DPs and not of some entry level keyboard!

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2734466
05/06/18 08:33 AM
05/06/18 08:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
A
Audetto Offline
Full Member
Audetto  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
Not sure how much is going to help, but if anybody with this usability issue writes to Kawai, then they might react to it.

I don't know what Kawai James roles is here, and given that this is not an official Kawai forum, I think it is important to give feedback directly to Kawai.

I have found a couple of emails at this page http://www.kawai.co.uk/contact.htm


Kawai CA78
(previously Kawai KDP90)
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Audetto] #2734481
05/06/18 10:07 AM
05/06/18 10:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 273
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
Full Member
arc7urus  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 273
Europe
Originally Posted by Audetto
Not sure how much is going to help, but if anybody with this usability issue writes to Kawai, then they might react to it.

I don't know what Kawai James roles is here, and given that this is not an official Kawai forum, I think it is important to give feedback directly to Kawai.

I have found a couple of emails at this page http://www.kawai.co.uk/contact.htm


Did that already. I have sent a list of UI usability issues to Kawai Global and Kawai Europe some 4 months ago. I can update the list and resend it to Kawai. The only reply I got was “we have received your message and are looking into it”. The list includes several of the topics discussed here related to the settings and favourites management and also related to instrument selection in sound mode, music recorder and music player. These issues can be addressed by changes to the UI design and UI use cases and do not require any changes core system/sound engine (as you know, the UI and the core system are updated separately).

I emphasize that I am very happy with the CA98 and would buy it again today. I have never experienced any kind of technical problems during its almost 6 months of usage. However I find it very hard to accept that the UI in the flagship CAx8 and Novus models was released with such a design and, worse, was not yet properly updated.

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: arc7urus] #2734524
05/06/18 12:35 PM
05/06/18 12:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 300
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Online content
Full Member
Colin Miles  Online Content
Full Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 300
South Wales
Originally Posted by arc7urus


Did that already. I have sent a list of UI usability issues to Kawai Global and Kawai Europe some 4 months ago. I can update the list and resend it to Kawai. The only reply I got was “we have received your message and are looking into it”. The list includes several of the topics discussed here related to the settings and favourites management and also related to instrument selection in sound mode, music recorder and music player.

In the short period I had a CA67 there were two problems. Loud keys which Kawai said were a feature(!) and software which clearly needed a redesign and rewrite. Adding a GUI on top of that doesn't help and if the same people are trying to address the problems you have raised I think you may have a long wait.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Colin Miles] #2734634
05/06/18 06:51 PM
05/06/18 06:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 120
Germany
D
danielp11 Offline
Full Member
danielp11  Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 120
Germany
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by arc7urus


Did that already. I have sent a list of UI usability issues to Kawai Global and Kawai Europe some 4 months ago. I can update the list and resend it to Kawai. The only reply I got was “we have received your message and are looking into it”. The list includes several of the topics discussed here related to the settings and favourites management and also related to instrument selection in sound mode, music recorder and music player.

In the short period I had a CA67 there were two problems. Loud keys which Kawai said were a feature(!) and software which clearly needed a redesign and rewrite. Adding a GUI on top of that doesn't help and if the same people are trying to address the problems you have raised I think you may have a long wait.


Hello,

I think I know the CA67/CA97/CS11 software well, understand it and I am perfectly fine with it. What really bothers me is the possible downgrade in software functionality in the CA78/CA98/NV10 concerning the changing of VT values in favorite settings, which is possible in the CA67/CA98/CS11 software via „open registration“.

Daniel


KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: danielp11] #2734673
05/06/18 08:26 PM
05/06/18 08:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 273
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
Full Member
arc7urus  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 273
Europe
Originally Posted by danielp11
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by arc7urus


Did that already. I have sent a list of UI usability issues to Kawai Global and Kawai Europe some 4 months ago. I can update the list and resend it to Kawai. The only reply I got was “we have received your message and are looking into it”. The list includes several of the topics discussed here related to the settings and favourites management and also related to instrument selection in sound mode, music recorder and music player.

In the short period I had a CA67 there were two problems. Loud keys which Kawai said were a feature(!) and software which clearly needed a redesign and rewrite. Adding a GUI on top of that doesn't help and if the same people are trying to address the problems you have raised I think you may have a long wait.


Hello,

I think I know the CA67/CA97/CS11 software well, understand it and I am perfectly fine with it. What really bothers me is the possible downgrade in software functionality in the CA78/CA98/NV10 concerning the changing of VT values in favorite settings, which is possible in the CA67/CA98/CS11 software via „open registration“.

Daniel


It will be indeed a loss of functionality if Kawai does not update the usability of the UI. But I believe the benefits of upgrading to an NV10 will outweigh the UI issues.

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2735554
05/10/18 03:54 PM
05/10/18 03:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
A
Audetto Offline
Full Member
Audetto  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
I've exchanged more (disappointing) emails with Kawai (carefully thought through, priority was the Pianist mode, most users don't need it... and so on).

Anyway, I think they really consider the Favorites a "feature".

And I was trying to understand why they had duplicated the Metronome and the Recorder in the Favorite tab,
What is the point? We already have 2 of each. And the answer confirms the Favorite tab is a world apart.

If the Metronome & Recorder were not duplicated, then they would have been completely unusable with a Favorite.
So that should have rang a bell: what about all the other features (other than Metronome and Recorder), why were they considered 2nd class citizens and have not been duplicated? This arbitrary decision, to limit what is available from a Favorite to these 2 features is really a consequence of the (IMHO bad) decision to "ring fence" the Favorite.

So, unfortunately, this seems to have been implemented correctly, and it falls under the category of convoluted and short sighted design (I am a software developer myself and I know how rare a commodity is the "Principle of least astonishment").


Kawai CA78
(previously Kawai KDP90)
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: JoBert] #2735811
05/11/18 06:27 PM
05/11/18 06:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
JoBert Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
Referring to myself here:
Originally Posted by JoBert
Daniel, I know you were hoping for a "good news" to the contrary from James, but I can assure you that there is indeed no function similar to "Open Registration" in the current NV10/CA98/CA78 software. The only thing you can edit for an existing favorite is its name and its position in the list.

Well, turns out that there actually is a way how you can edit the settings in an existing favorite!

Granted, it's an ugly and convoluted workaround, but it is better than nothing (until sometime? ever? dare-we-hope? Kawai maybe re-adds this functionality in a firmware update).

I've described it in detail in the Novus thread, in this post:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...wai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2735809

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: JoBert] #2735865
05/12/18 01:09 AM
05/12/18 01:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 120
Germany
D
danielp11 Offline
Full Member
danielp11  Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 120
Germany
Originally Posted by JoBert
Referring to myself here:
Originally Posted by JoBert
Daniel, I know you were hoping for a "good news" to the contrary from James, but I can assure you that there is indeed no function similar to "Open Registration" in the current NV10/CA98/CA78 software. The only thing you can edit for an existing favorite is its name and its position in the list.

Well, turns out that there actually is a way how you can edit the settings in an existing favorite!

Granted, it's an ugly and convoluted workaround, but it is better than nothing (until sometime? ever? dare-we-hope? Kawai maybe re-adds this functionality in a firmware update).

I've described it in detail in the Novus thread, in this post:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...wai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2735809


Thank you very much JoBert!!

Daniel


KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: mabraman] #2735866
05/12/18 01:48 AM
05/12/18 01:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
G
Galuwen Offline
Full Member
Galuwen  Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
What I can tell is that the very limited possibility of the favorites makes no difference between pianist mode and sound mode. You can see different backgrounds on the favorite ICON between Pianist and Sound setting. It would be great if the stored settings could be edited or checked.

Also rewind or navigation of mp3 and wave files would be great.

Or full german keyboard.

Would I buy it again:

From keyboard, sound, soundboard effect (everything that matters whilst playing) it is by far the best Piano on the market for me. Buy again? ROFL! It is a MUST HAVE!!!!! Never ever I played one of my CA's (93,95,97) as much in the first 4 months.

Alexander

Buy again? 😂😂👌

Last edited by Galuwen; 05/12/18 02:01 AM.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: JoBert] #2735867
05/12/18 01:54 AM
05/12/18 01:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
G
Galuwen Offline
Full Member
Galuwen  Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
To the possibility to edit favorites: Please be aware that changing position to place 1 to make it "startup setting" does not work. Only factory reset or deleting all favorites work.

Galuwen

Last edited by Galuwen; 05/12/18 02:02 AM.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Galuwen] #2735870
05/12/18 02:36 AM
05/12/18 02:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
JoBert Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
Originally Posted by Galuwen
To the possibility to edit favorites: Please be aware that changing position to place 1 to make it "startup setting" does not work. Only factory reset or deleting all favorites work.

Galuwen

Fortunately, it does work without a reset! smile

The information that you need a factory reset (or need to delete all favorites) is old information from an older post that I wrote. It was later pointed out by Kawai James that you actually don't need a reset, i.e. you can reorder the favorites and put a new favorite into first place, and still have this new favorite work correctly as a startup favorite. The thing is, you have to do this with a specific sequence of steps (which is also used in the "edit favorites" procedure I linked above) or it won't work. That sequence is as follows:

On the favorites screen:
  • Tap burger menu icon
  • Switch Startup With Favorite OFF
  • Tap Edit Favorite
  • Reorder and put desired new favorite in first place
  • Tap "<" in top left
  • Close with "X" at bottom
  • Make sure the new first favorite is the selected one (this is important!)
  • Tap burger menu icon again
  • Switch Startup with Favorite ON

And since the reordering works with this sequence, the "procedure" for favorite editing (as linked above) also works, and afterwards you can still properly restore your desired startup favorite without the need for a reset.

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Galuwen] #2735886
05/12/18 04:02 AM
05/12/18 04:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
A
Audetto Offline
Full Member
Audetto  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by Galuwen
Never ever I played one of my CA's (93,95,97) as much in the first 4 months.


Since you seem to buy every new model (where do you find the money?), in a couple of years it will be fixed.
Other people might be living with it for the rest of their lives...


Kawai CA78
(previously Kawai KDP90)
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Audetto] #2735889
05/12/18 04:23 AM
05/12/18 04:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
G
Galuwen Offline
Full Member
Galuwen  Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by Audetto
Originally Posted by Galuwen
Never ever I played one of my CA's (93,95,97) as much in the first 4 months.


Since you seem to buy every new model (where do you find the money?), in a couple of years it will be fixed.
Other people might be living with it for the rest of their lives...



To be honest I trade them back and buy a new one :-).

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2737574
05/18/18 01:52 AM
05/18/18 01:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 29
Switzerland
P
paf Offline
Full Member
paf  Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 29
Switzerland
I got an anser from Kawai Europe yesterday, 5 months after contacting them the first time (and several times inbetween).

About the crash when plugging headphones in
Kawai acknowledges the problem and says it is a hardware problem on some CA98. They now have a solution and ask me to contact my dealer to arrange a "repair".

About the GUI
Kawai do as if they were not aware of a problem and ask me what does not work correctly (but I have been trying several times in the last 5 months to explain it to them).

My impression is that they try hard to kill the usability question by determining that the DP reacts exactly as described in the manual (which it might be), and this is perfectly OK for them.

And that they try to ignore the fact that the ergonomy of the GUI of the CA78/CA98/NV10 ist terrible, that the favorites function as implemented and documented almost useless, and that they probably would sell more of their high-end DPs if they improved the GUI a very little bit.

I can't understand that this company is widely considered to have an excellent service. It might be true for adressing hardware issues, but for software, they are on the level of Microsoft 30 years ago.

Patrick

Last edited by paf; 05/18/18 01:53 AM.

Kawai CA98, Technics SX-PX 201 with homemade multitrack MIDI recorder based on an Arduino
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: paf] #2737681
05/18/18 12:35 PM
05/18/18 12:35 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3
T
Tom F Wright Offline
Junior Member
Tom F Wright  Offline
Junior Member
T
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3

I am a recent newcomer to the CA98 model - having only recently changed (upgraded ????) from a Kawai CS-10 Digital Piano.

As a Pianist and an Electronics Engineer, there are various aspects of this model that I am really less than happy about
(I currently have another Thread on this Forum regarding one of the areas of concern on this model).

Regarding the GUI interface, I can say that although it does feature more up to date technology - using a Touch Screen (instead of old fashioned buttons !!), the operation of it for a Pianist is FLAWED IN MANY WAYS.

Now as I understand it, the display itself is a product designed and manufactured by Onkyo of Japan. It is actually a Digital Music Player and based around the Android Operating System.

Now the BIG question is: How much knowledge does Kawai actually have about this Player and programming it, or are they reliant on Onkyo to design/Debug the software for them ???????????

Now of course, Onkyo do not make Pianos and so maybe dont have a full undestanding of how the Softare shuld have been implimented in the first place (I guess the overal concept was discussed between the collaboration of Kawai and Onkyo). But for Kawai, maybe this was a bit of leap in the dark for them, moving away from switches and buttons, to a Touch Sceen device which needs totally different skill sets to implement (Mobile Phone Manufacturers of course have this pretty much licked these days).

And what happens when you dont get things right ??

Well from my own point of view, I really dont even want to see a Display at all on my Piano - I just want to play some nice music. But when I do need it, it should be bug-free and totally intuitive.
And yes of course, it should have had for example, a completely "Open Registration" for changing and storing ANY variable parameters, and adding a beastly FAVORITES screen as a substitute simply is not acceptable.

But on the other hand, I would like to aplaud Kawai as well for taking the Digital Piano forward in evolution - using more modern sampling techniques and Technologies.

However, it is possible that pressures to get this model released to market, that there are MANY areas of this design that should have been looked into first, and to make the necessary improvements and changes to the design BEFORE it was released.

It is my own personal belief that the CA98 piano "COULD HAVE BEEN" so much better.

At the end of the day this is not a "CHEAP and CHEARFUL" Piano, and not to forget, the owners of the NV-10 Novus model - which seems to have many of the same issues (and on a piano costing as much as a small car).

So, come on KAWAI - we love your products but YOU HAVE TO LISTEN AND IMPROVE ...........................

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2737822
05/18/18 11:57 PM
05/18/18 11:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
G
Galuwen Offline
Full Member
Galuwen  Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
You have to be realistic: They can't, the maybe would want to and as it is obvious now from PAFs experience they don't will.

KAWAI James is silent on this point since day one.

So to be realistic: 😫 only possibility is to return the piano(s) as some are doing in the moment here in Germany.

Or live with a GUI w/o proper localisation, with an WAV /MP3 player where you not even can rewind or navigate.

No editing or reading out adjusted values.

No navigation in menus w/o changing values by error,...

For me I will stick with my CA98 even with the fact that I can only play it with external Amplifier and high end speakers behind me and that I have to turn it off before plugging in headphones.

Wrap some gaffer tape around it and go on as we say in Germany :-).

And as soon as a new model (maybe with the good old cheek block button display) will be released hopefully I have saved enough money until then and - as we also say in Germany - take the money in hand if you want quality.

Too drastic? To harsh? Now be realistic too....You won't find a better sounding and working DP in this (cheap) class compared with let's say Yam..haha. And to say it clear: Don't think you won't have problems with other manufacturers 2.

Galuwen.

Last edited by Galuwen; 05/19/18 12:02 AM.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: paf] #2737845
05/19/18 03:49 AM
05/19/18 03:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
JoBert Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,321
Germany
Originally Posted by paf
I got an anser from Kawai Europe yesterday, 5 months after contacting them the first time (and several times inbetween).

We've so far only had silence from Kawai regarding the UI problems in the CA78/98/NV10 generation and what one reads here about the replies from Kawai Europe regarding these problems gives me the impression that this too is silence - only with more words.

My guess is that Kawai Europe either is not allowed to say anything, or they are just as out-of-the-loop regarding the development and plans for the UI (if any) as we are, so they are forced to come out with platitudes and standard phrases when confronted with an insistent customer who asks for a reply.

From what I've seen of the UI (in my NV10), I'm convinced that this software is, like so many other software products world wide, the lamentable result of one of these cases, where an uninformed management made the cardinal mistake that you can do in a software project: Namely that of imposing a fixed deadline by fiat. (Contrary to all the accumulated knowledge that tells us over and over again, that this is not possible. There have been books written about this as far back as in the 80s, but it still happens far too often.)

The CA78/98/NV10 UI has all the signs of such a project:
  • Illogical design choices (that could have been fixed/redesigned with more time)
  • Cut corners (features left out or "forgotten" that were available in a previous version)
  • Not enough debugging (and that is quite obvious, because you don't have to dig deep to find the bugs, any kind of even a half assed testing and debugging cycle should have caught many of them)

All these are hallmarks of a software project with an fixed deadline that was decreed by fiat by upper management, without any regards to how the project was going, or what its current state was.

The question now is: Will Kawai own up to this and how will they handle this?

Right now, even despite this disastrous train wreck of a software release, Kawai still has a lot of good will and fans of their pianos. At least here on the forum, but I expect also elsewhere. The CA78/98 and also the NV10 are still being recommended to people asking for advice, even by forum members who are fully aware of these problems.

Imagine how, based on this still existing good will, Kawai's reputation could soar if, in a few months or so, they come out with a software version 2.0 that fixes these problems!

Or on the other hand, how it could crash and burn, if they continued with their wall of silence and simply let the buyers of the current CA78/98/NV10 generation hang out to dry, with all fixes only coming to the next generation (if any - who knows, if they really are in denial they might not even fix these problems in the next generation. Now that would be a catastrophe for their reputation!).

So, what's it gonna be, Kawai?

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: JoBert] #2737855
05/19/18 04:08 AM
05/19/18 04:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 300
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Online content
Full Member
Colin Miles  Online Content
Full Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 300
South Wales
Originally Posted by JoBert


From what I've seen of the UI (in my NV10), I'm convinced that this software is, like so many other software products world wide, the lamentable result of one of these cases, where an uninformed management made the cardinal mistake that you can do in a software project: Namely that of imposing a fixed deadline by fiat. (Contrary to all the accumulated knowledge that tells us over and over again, that this is not possible. There have been books written about this as far back as in the 80s, but it still happens far too often.)


I doubt if it was a fixed deadline that is the problem, but the original poor design before they tacked the GUI on it. Can't see it being fixed without a complete rewrite and by a different programmer/systems analyst. I rather suspect that original person(s) had little experience.

Last edited by Colin Miles; 05/19/18 04:11 AM. Reason: additional comment

Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2737940
05/19/18 11:27 AM
05/19/18 11:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 108
Denver, USA
W
WarrenY Offline
Full Member
WarrenY  Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 108
Denver, USA
This CA78, 98 release has every sign of rushing an unfinished product out the door. I even joked about this right on the announcement thread here ... To me, this pianist mode thingy was the telltale. The missing features, the inconsistencies was obvious. Yet some people were blinded by the new shiny objects and chose to believe otherwise as special. Now the excitements finally worn out. Some defend the annoyances as acceptable to justify their purchases. Others get vocal and demand a 2.0 software release. It will be nice if Kawai actually provides a "service pack" but don't count on it. More likely CA79, 99 will be the fix but I like to be surprised.


Yamaha U1 | Roland FP90+JBL LSR305
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Galuwen] #2738004
05/19/18 04:19 PM
05/19/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
A
Audetto Offline
Full Member
Audetto  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by Galuwen
Too drastic? To harsh? Now be realistic too....You won't find a better sounding and working DP in this (cheap) class compared with let's say Yam..haha. And to say it clear: Don't think you won't have problems with other manufacturers 2.
Galuwen.


I think the ones laughing here are Yamaha, Roland & Co. who will have their sales pitch ready.

I know Kawai James won't say a word about this, I only hope he forwards all feedback from this Forum to someone with an open mind.
There are 100s of people providing feedback, invaluable feedback which gets ignored.

At some points these reviews will start biting the sales (and don't forget all the positive missed).

And, but this might sound like a heresy to Kawai who told me they will not publish the MIDI SysEx to control the settings: put the source code on github and most of your bugs will get fixed in no time, for free (btw, by people who can't even run the app).


Kawai CA78
(previously Kawai KDP90)
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2738133
05/20/18 02:38 AM
05/20/18 02:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 166
Sydney, Australia
A
ArtlessArt Offline
Full Member
ArtlessArt  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 166
Sydney, Australia
Does anyone know if there is any way to lower the volume of a particular key; I have CA78, the D5 and #D5 are louder than others. They 'jump out' at you when playing a delicate piece and tend to put you of a bit.

I have played around with the GUI a bit, but can't seem to find an option to adjust individual notes.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: ArtlessArt] #2738136
05/20/18 02:46 AM
05/20/18 02:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 18
Czech Republic
M
Marcel M Offline
Junior Member
Marcel M  Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 18
Czech Republic


Kawai CA48
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Marcel M] #2738141
05/20/18 03:15 AM
05/20/18 03:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 166
Sydney, Australia
A
ArtlessArt Offline
Full Member
ArtlessArt  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 166
Sydney, Australia
Ahh Thanks for that smile I should have looked more carefully.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Colin Miles] #2738549
05/22/18 01:22 AM
05/22/18 01:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 29
Switzerland
P
paf Offline
Full Member
paf  Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 29
Switzerland
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Can't see it being fixed without a complete rewrite and by a different programmer/systems analyst. I rather suspect that original person(s) had little experience.

In my opinion and according to my modest software development experience, the worst problem (saving the settings, especially the awful favorites) cannot be difficult to solve and this could be done at very little cost. Even the worst spaghetti-like code can be patched and I don't think that it needs more than a patch to solve my problem with it.

Regarding other things like swiching the screen completely off or crashing when inserting headphones or USB Sticks, I see more potential problems, especially if the hardware has not been designed accordingly. And we have some reasons to think that the hardware of the GUI hast some shortcomings. But that doesn't mean the it can not or should not be fixed!

I'm very sad about the attitude of Kawai. I don't understand it from a technical point of view and even less from a commercial point of view, If Kawai was interested in selling more of they most expensive DP and saving their reputation, it think they could:
  • at the minimum, fix the GUI code to make it less bad
  • at the maximum, put the GUI source code in the public domain and publish the specification of the interface to the sound engine. Every piano-playing geek would then buy these DP and we would get the best GUI in the DP world in a few weeks time. Of course, Kawai can't do it if their code is so badly written they are ashamed about it.

Last edited by paf; 05/22/18 01:24 AM.

Kawai CA98, Technics SX-PX 201 with homemade multitrack MIDI recorder based on an Arduino
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: paf] #2738566
05/22/18 04:01 AM
05/22/18 04:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 300
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Online content
Full Member
Colin Miles  Online Content
Full Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 300
South Wales
Originally Posted by paf
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Can't see it being fixed without a complete rewrite and by a different programmer/systems analyst. I rather suspect that original person(s) had little experience.

In my opinion and according to my modest software development experience, the worst problem (saving the settings, especially the awful favorites) cannot be difficult to solve and this could be done at very little cost. Even the worst spaghetti-like code can be patched and I don't think that it needs more than a patch to solve my problem with it.
[/list]

Well I have perhaps a little more experience and I think that you will find that if the design is faulty patching can make it worse by introducing unforeseen errors. Think MSDOS and Windows.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: ArtlessArt] #2738569
05/22/18 04:25 AM
05/22/18 04:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 273
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
Full Member
arc7urus  Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 273
Europe
Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Does anyone know if there is any way to lower the volume of a particular key; I have CA78, the D5 and #D5 are louder than others. They 'jump out' at you when playing a delicate piece and tend to put you of a bit.

I have played around with the GUI a bit, but can't seem to find an option to adjust individual notes.


Hi! You can indeed regulate the volume and other parameters of each individual key as pointed out already. However, I hear no volume difference between those particular two keys and the neighboring keys on pianist mode and with the pianos in sound mode. I suggest you
check the actual note-on velocity of those keys to rule out any sensor-related issue. You can check the note-on velocity by connecting the CA78 via Bluetooth or USB to an iOS/Android device (free MIDI Wrench app on iOS) or to a PC (download MIDIOX or MIDI Monitor).

Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Piano World 

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Skips Vs.Steps desperation
by Melodies. 06/25/18 12:52 AM
Which tool to polish pedals?
by mivaldes. 06/24/18 10:42 PM
Touchrail system?
by Radio.Octave. 06/24/18 09:47 PM
Can words be used to describe music?
by pianoloverus. 06/24/18 04:21 PM
electronic tuners
by oth47. 06/24/18 02:44 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Steingraeber
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics186,120
Posts2,727,179
Members90,446
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1