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Brahms - 2 rhapsodies op. 79 #2702837
01/07/18 11:24 AM
01/07/18 11:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 21
Fouyaut Offline OP
Full Member
Fouyaut  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 21
Hello everyone,

here are two recordings I did, one of each rhapsody of Brahms' op. 79.
I've worked on these pieces since September, and I still need to work on them because they're at the upper limits of my current level.
I still wanted to record an overview of what I managed to achieve, before letting the pieces rest for a while, and go back to them later.
I was not able to record them in one take, because of the passages with rolled tenth chords in n°1 - my most obvious technical weakness. I hope you will forgive the cuts in the videos...
To my ears, there are a lot of things that ask for improvement, especially the end of both pieces (that I didn't work sufficiently enough), my Gb major scales... and also the fact that I tend to play n°1 in 4/4 despite it being written in 2/2, and generally, the lack of musical breathing and the excess of tension in my playing.

Anyway, here are the videos ! Thanks to every member that will take the time to listen and to share their advice and/or opinions.



Re: Brahms - 2 rhapsodies op. 79 [Re: Fouyaut] #2702975
01/07/18 07:33 PM
01/07/18 07:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,178
M
Moo :) Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,178
smile

I'm playing the second rhapsody at the moment so the music is quite well known to me now.

I have had a listen and parts of it sounded strange so I had a detailed listen to the piece. I have picked out some parts and tried to work out what is wrong.

- 10s - you are missing two triptes (second D GB) in right hand
- 1:10/1-13 - A-A chords are separated in last in left hand, sounds you playing them blocked
- 1:18: you are missing 3 A's in right hand
- 1:21: something is wrong with the right hand chords (i think you played A-D-E twice but the chords always change so it should be A-D-F shard, A-D-E)
- 1:24: its B C sharp E B (not B D B), also the middle part of the chord (C sharp E) so should be held as crotchets
- 2:26 & 2:28: you are missing the 3rd beat (F sharp, G, F sharp) both times
- 2:32: chords in right hand are in every beat of the bar (i think you missed the last one)
-2:37: you are missing some triplets here in right hand. (there are some quavers in right hand but sometimes you are doing quavers when there should be triplets)


-2:46-3:15
- you are missing the triplets in the last beat throughout. there is an ostenuto throughtout and you are cutting it it so really take another look at this.
- e.g.
- 2:46 D-D-D in right hand (you just played one D i think)
-2:50 (A-A chord but the D-E-D triplet is missed)
- in this entire section you are missing all the triplets on the last beats of the bar until 3:15

- 3:49 : the 3rd beat in the left is and epic !! chord (not just a D)

- 4:43 : 3rd beat missing the D-E-D triplet
- 4:56: similar mistakes - the right hand chord changes every beat, you are playing sometimes repeatied chords which are wrong so check over this section
- 4:57: same prob as before (it is chord, E flat, D twice), you are just doing the E flat and doing a rest (so missing the D twice).


A couple of general suggestions.

At 58s - why 1-3 in right hand when you have semitones / tones (I am playing 1-2 is much easier and should help hand position).

octave chords : you fingers are in the same static when you play chord and you play 5-1 for all of them. suggestion - collect fingers when you play chords, so you reach into the keys and you can use this elastic energy to move. this can help with the passion and power, the marking of bramhs in my book is 'molto passionato'. my teacher said he was massive like a bear with huge hands so he was very powerful in real life also! also i quite like with quite octaves - e.g. white note octaves 1-5 and blacks octaves 1-4. i know this was a debated before but this technique is especially useful for fast octave passages.


I hope that helps. You seem to have play some of the really hard passages perfectly so I think the main trouble is you are not playing with the score, is there a reason why ?

I have been recording myself and you can have a listen to me if you click below. i make a thread before where some people gave me some tips so you can search for that also. sorry i cant play the other rhapsody at all as its too hard so someone else can help with that one.

Last edited by Moo :); 01/07/18 07:57 PM.
Re: Brahms - 2 rhapsodies op. 79 [Re: Fouyaut] #2702979
01/07/18 07:40 PM
01/07/18 07:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,178
M
Moo :) Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,178
actually i'm still learning it and misplaying some of the notes so prob not the best one to learn from. is it possible to slow down a youtube video? i hope so as i want to try it also. i think it may help to listen to a polished version with the score at a slower down pace. maybe someone can help with this.

Re: Brahms - 2 rhapsodies op. 79 [Re: Fouyaut] #2703171
01/08/18 01:02 PM
01/08/18 01:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 21
Fouyaut Offline OP
Full Member
Fouyaut  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 21
Hello Moo,
Nice to see that we work on the same piece thumb

Thanks a lot for your scrupulous listening of n°2, your enumeration of my errors made me realize that I took my eyes off the text way too soon.
I should add to the ones you listed an ugly unwanted G instead of an A to the bass at 0'45 (bar 17).

I agree with the main direction of your remarks, that I need to spend more time working on the triplets to make them all come out. I focused on the octave jumps of the second part during my training and left part 4 rather unpolished...
It occurs that, for other reasons, I'm currently working an Etude by Czerny with lots of triplets (op. 740, n°45) - maybe it will help !
Your fingering suggestion is worth trying, I will make sure to do so. I was perhaps obstinate about wanting to make the triplets flow by using the fingering 1-3-2 as often as possible...

Thanks also for the advice of releasing the tension in my palm when playing octave traits. Does your fingering suggestion for octaves apply to a passage in particular ? When playing the "A-Bb-A-G#" riff, i think i do as you recommend 5-4-5-4.

Re: Brahms - 2 rhapsodies op. 79 [Re: Moo :)] #2703186
01/08/18 01:28 PM
01/08/18 01:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 21
Fouyaut Offline OP
Full Member
Fouyaut  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 21
A few more detailed reactions to some of your remarks

Originally Posted by Moo :)
- 1:10/1-13 - A-A chords are separated in last in left hand, sounds you playing them blocked

Yeah I know, since it was the first time I had to roll a two-note "chord", I didn't know how fast I should play the two notes one after the other. My conclusion was that the arpeggio symbol was there to help the hand go and take the Bb triplet, so I thought it would sound nice to make them succede one another very fast.

Originally Posted by Moo :)
- 1:21: something is wrong with the right hand chords (i think you played A-D-E twice but the chords always change so it should be A-D-F shard, A-D-E)

I think there are No f-sharp in this section since it is in d minor... but yeah i need to rework this bar 30 and the few ones before because it sounds quite clumsy.

Originally Posted by Moo :)
- 2:32: chords in right hand are in every beat of the bar (i think you missed the last one)

as I'm following the text while watching the video, I see that we're at bar 59 at 2:32, but i don't see those chords on every beat you are refferring to ???




Re: Brahms - 2 rhapsodies op. 79 [Re: Fouyaut] #2703402
01/09/18 09:40 AM
01/09/18 09:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,178
M
Moo :) Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,178
i play 4-1 on all almost all the black octaves but you don't necessarily need to do this. however, it does help to play fast passages, legato octaves (which is impossible you play 1-5 all octaves) and if you are going up quickly (so in brahms in bar 10 = when u jump from d octaves up to f sharp in left hand very fast).

sorry, i have had a listen to the 2:32, what you did was miss the third triplet in the beat. i think when you have the notes solid add some passion. dynamics plus. changes to the pace. bon courage.

how was the first rhapsody to learn ?

Re: Brahms - 2 rhapsodies op. 79 [Re: Fouyaut] #2703403
01/09/18 09:49 AM
01/09/18 09:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,178
M
Moo :) Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,178
i was told to try and shape the notes in the phrase. you have it a bit same-y at the moment but there should be more stress on certain beats and certain points of the phrase. i can't really explain this clearly but i hope it make sense. any tips for me ?

Last edited by Moo :); 01/09/18 09:50 AM.

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