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Re: legato [Re: dogperson] #2703052
01/08/18 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Yes, a lot of playing is an illusion, and that includes holding down the the notes where you’re still using the pedal. I don’t see any reason for this to create tension, as you can keep your hands on the keys maintainIng the illusion that you are pressing the note But playing with no pressure and therefore no tension. If you’re playing for an audience, this illusion is important, particularly on the end notes of the piece: The pedal should be released at the same time as the hands are released.

Because most people hear with their eyes. As a performer you can never forget that.


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Re: legato [Re: iamanders] #2703080
01/08/18 04:57 AM
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Is it possible to achieve true Legato playing on say a Kawai CS10 or would one be wasting his time?


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Re: legato [Re: pianoloverus] #2703081
01/08/18 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus

1.Most people find it technically easier to play repeated notes this way especially when the tempo is fast and.or the the number of repeated notes is large.


I agree, but I suspect that it might be a learned effect. I never had a teacher until very recently, so I always played fast repeated notes with the same finger. I didn't have a teacher to tell me that there might be an alternative, and it simply never occurred to me. So now I play repeated notes with the same finger much more quickly than by changing fingers.

My point is that while it might be easier to play fast repeated notes with different fingers, I think it's just as likely that this is a self-perpetuating belief. I don't have any hard evidence one way or the other, though.

Re: legato [Re: Gary D.] #2703083
01/08/18 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
Great composers and pianists are not immune to magic thinking.


I'm glad to hear you say that. One of the most frustrating things I face when talking about music is the number of things people believe that simply can't be true. I've had people tell me, for example, that pressure on a key after it has been struck affects the tone of a note. I've seen composers write a pedal indication and a staccato dot for the same note. And so on.

It would make communication a lot easier if people were simply to abandon these false beliefs. But I guess that's true in many areas of life.

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Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703091
01/08/18 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Great composers and pianists are not immune to magic thinking.


I'm glad to hear you say that. One of the most frustrating things I face when talking about music is the number of things people believe that simply can't be true. I've had people tell me, for example, that pressure on a key after it has been struck affects the tone of a note. I've seen composers write a pedal indication and a staccato dot for the same note. And so on.

It would make communication a lot easier if people were simply to abandon these false beliefs. But I guess that's true in many areas of life.


I've specifically asked about the pedal/staccato thing a few times because I'm working on a lot of Debussy and he did this a lot. It seems to be widely accepted that if you play staccato with the pedal down then it produces a bell-like tone, even though there is no explanation as to why this might happen - the view in the tech forum here was that it was just in the performers minds and if they played a staccato note that sounded different they were just playing with a different velocity (probably lighter) than if they had played the note legato. It's the different physical motion that means the key/hammer are moving at a different speed - if you played a staccato note and then a legato note and the hammer hit the string at the same speed both times there would be zero difference in the tone with the pedal down. One forum comment (not here) even said something like 'just because physics can't explain it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen'!

Anyway, digression over. smile

FWIW, I find it very easy to play repeated notes with the same finger and get exactly the same dynamics each time - it's almost impossible to do that playing repeated notes with different fingers, so doing the latter can add a bit of extra expression to a phrase.

I don't see how anyone can play repeated notes with the same finger at the same quick tempo as playing with multiple fingers - drum a 3-2-1 pattern on a table and you can get it way faster than repeating 3-3-3 over and over again, and with almost zero tension in the hand.

Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703097
01/08/18 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

1.Most people find it technically easier to play repeated notes this way especially when the tempo is fast and.or the the number of repeated notes is large.


I agree, but I suspect that it might be a learned effect. I never had a teacher until very recently, so I always played fast repeated notes with the same finger. I didn't have a teacher to tell me that there might be an alternative, and it simply never occurred to me. So now I play repeated notes with the same finger much more quickly than by changing fingers.

My point is that while it might be easier to play fast repeated notes with different fingers, I think it's just as likely that this is a self-perpetuating belief. I don't have any hard evidence one way or the other, though.

Here's your evidence wink :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjghYFgt8Zk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLuYLN_k4lA

OK, you might say that's an unfair comparison, because one is playing a piano, the other is playing a harpsichord which has a different action, but I couldn't find any YT performance where the pianist uses the same finger on the repeated notes, on piano. But most harpsichordists change fingers too.

See if you can play those notes at anything approaching the speed in the piano video on your piano using the same finger. Or even, at a slower speed, sustain those repeated notes for the duration of the piece.......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: legato [Re: GoldmanT] #2703098
01/08/18 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by GoldmanT
It's the different physical motion that means the key/hammer are moving at a different speed - if you played a staccato note and then a legato note and the hammer hit the string at the same speed both times there would be zero difference in the tone with the pedal down. One forum comment (not here) even said something like 'just because physics can't explain it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen'!


To be fair, there's a great deal that isn't readily explicable in terms of physics, including our appreciation of music. However, the physics of a piano action is simple, and perfectly well understood in scientific terms. Since the hammer drops after hitting the key, whether the note is held or not, to claim that the sound is different whether the note is played legato or staccato with the damper up is to claim that the sound can be influenced by the power of the mind, or some such thing. While I'm open-minded enough not to rule out such a possibility without due consideration, it's certainly something that I'd want to see very firm evidence for.

I suspect that when composers wrote staccato and pedal together, they were trying to communicate some general information about the character of the passage, rather than specific instructions on fingering. I think that the further back in time we go, the more information about the notational conventions of the day we have lost.

Originally Posted by GoldmanT
I don't see how anyone can play repeated notes with the same finger at the same quick tempo as playing with multiple fingers - drum a 3-2-1 pattern on a table and you can get it way faster than repeating 3-3-3 over and over again, and with almost zero tension in the hand.


I agree with you, when it comes to drumming on a table-top. But how often does real piano music require actions similar to drumming on a table-top? In particular, how often is it the case that you need to play three repeated notes in quick succession, without other, different notes in the same passage needing to be played at the same speed? For me, the speed at which I can play a passage is dictated by my ability to perform the complicated finger actions needed to play successive, different notes, and never by the speed of playing the same note repeatedly. Other people might be different, of course.

Re: legato [Re: GoldmanT] #2703133
01/08/18 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by GoldmanT

I've specifically asked about the pedal/staccato thing a few times because I'm working on a lot of Debussy and he did this a lot. It seems to be widely accepted that if you play staccato with the pedal down then it produces a bell-like tone, even though there is no explanation as to why this might happen - the view in the tech forum here was that it was just in the performers minds and if they played a staccato note that sounded different they were just playing with a different velocity (probably lighter) than if they had played the note legato.

That's exactly correct. I keep saying that people hear with their eyes. They also see with their ears. That means that what people THINK they hear is influenced by the visual, and what they THINK they see is influenced by the aural.

But Debussy, in general, was a very practical person, and many of his staccatos, with the pedal down, were about getting to what comes next in the easiest possible way.

There are places in some of the Chopin Nocturnes where the bottom, bass notes in measures are written staccato. That most likely is his attempt to tell students to catch those notes on the pedal and move as quickly as possible to the next position. It has nothing to do with the sound of the notes, which hold for the complete measure.


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Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703137
01/08/18 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinb

For me, the speed at which I can play a passage is dictated by my ability to perform the complicated finger actions needed to play successive, different notes, and never by the speed of playing the same note repeatedly. Other people might be different, of course.

Kevin, for the most part I was not taught to change fingers on repeated notes, and although it is true that this technique is not used a lot, when you need it it's the only one that works. Think of it as a special tool.

Here is a true freak of nature - and I mean that in a very positive way - fanning repeated notes at speed that would make me jealous if she were doing this at the age 30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjghYFgt8Zk

You might say, "Fine, I'm never going to play something like that." But sooner or later you will run into something that needs this skill, and nothing else will work.

Think of it as a special tool that some people use way too much, when they don't even need the tool. But overusing a tool doesn't mean the tool isn't necessary.

By the way, I don't LIKE Argerich's performance. It does exactly what I criticize most in the playing top virtuosos. It make speed the most important thing, and then you have competing "artists" all trying to out-gun each other.

I much prefer this, which is clean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdF_S57fyK8

But you can't play harpsichord at the same insane speed. Note that the repeated notes sound a lot cleaner, because you are not dealing with the velocity of keys. They either go down all the way, or they don't.

I'd like to hear just ONE famous pianist play this a this speed on the piano, with all the piano's extra possibilities with dynamics.



Last edited by Gary D.; 01/08/18 10:57 AM.

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Re: legato [Re: Gary D.] #2703158
01/08/18 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
There are places in some of the Chopin Nocturnes where the bottom, bass notes in measures are written staccato. That most likely is his attempt to tell students to catch those notes on the pedal and move as quickly as possible to the next position. It has nothing to do with the sound of the notes, which hold for the complete measure.


I see this notation in the Eb and Fmin nocturnes, for example; but I don't see it in his waltzes that have similar LH patterns. I interpret the staccato in the nocturnes to mean that it's OK not to hold the bass note, because you've got the pedal down, and it's going to take some time to get to the next LH position.

I speculate that we don't see this in the waltzes and mazurkas because the faster tempo means that the performer would be able even to attempt to hold the note. But who knows? This is just my guesswork.

Originally Posted by Gary D.
You might say, "Fine, I'm never going to play something like that." But sooner or later you will run into something that needs this skill, and nothing else will work.


Sure; I'm not dismissing the applicability of finger-switching during fast passages completely. I can see why there might be some occasions when it's necessary. I just don't see many of them in my future; in the situations I encounter in practice I can still play more quickly with the same finger.

Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703167
01/08/18 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
......I see this notation in the Eb and Fmin nocturnes, for example; but I don't see it in his waltzes that have similar LH patterns. I interpret the staccato in the nocturnes to mean that it's OK not to hold the bass note, because you've got the pedal down, and it's going to take some time to get to the next LH position.

I speculate that we don't see this in the waltzes and mazurkas because the faster tempo means that the performer would be able even to attempt to hold the note. But who knows? This is just my guesswork.........
Certainly at the indicated fast tempos of his waltzes and mazurkas the LH notes can't help but be played staccato, while at the same time pedaling is indicated (at least for beat one on modern pianos). I'm not so sure Chopin would have had the needs of us mere mortals in mind with the nocturnes where LH staccato is indicated because we need time to get to the next note. Chopin was more likely indicating a different sound he had in mind, imo.


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Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703172
01/08/18 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

1.Most people find it technically easier to play repeated notes this way especially when the tempo is fast and.or the the number of repeated notes is large.


I agree, but I suspect that it might be a learned effect. I never had a teacher until very recently, so I always played fast repeated notes with the same finger. I didn't have a teacher to tell me that there might be an alternative, and it simply never occurred to me. So now I play repeated notes with the same finger much more quickly than by changing fingers.

My point is that while it might be easier to play fast repeated notes with different fingers, I think it's just as likely that this is a self-perpetuating belief. I don't have any hard evidence one way or the other, though.
Or, since you've played repeated notes with the same finger most of your life that approach is easier for you because it is a learned effect. I think changing notes is easier for most people even when they first try it and is not just due to practice.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/08/18 01:04 PM.
Re: legato [Re: Stubbie] #2703359
01/09/18 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Stubbie
Chopin was more likely indicating a different sound he had in mind, imo.


Possible so. He wouldn't have got it, though, unless his piano has some long-forgotten mechanism to change tone with keypress duration.

Ironically, a modern digital piano could be programmed to change the tone of the note according to keypress duration, and so match what some pianists and composers erroneously believe happens with an acoustic piano.

Re: legato [Re: pianoloverus] #2703361
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Or, since you've played repeated notes with the same finger most of your life that approach is easier for you because it is a learned effect. I think changing notes is easier for most people even when they first try it and is not just due to practice.


Could be. It would be an interesting thing to research systematically. I think it would need to be done with real, representative musical passages though -- I don't think we learn much by asking people to tap on a table-top, or even to strike the same key repeatedly for long periods of time.

Re: legato [Re: Stubbie] #2703374
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Originally Posted by Stubbie
I'm not so sure Chopin would have had the needs of us mere mortals in mind with the nocturnes where LH staccato is indicated because we need time to get to the next note. Chopin was more likely indicating a different sound he had in mind, imo.

That's magic thinking on the part of Chopin if you are correct. The bass notes have to be hit long enough for the pedal to grab them, but no longer. The sound is not going to change otherwise.

We have to keep in mind that musical geniuses are not necessarily very logical, and they can be dead wrong about HOW things work or WHY they work, while being absolutely correct in getting the right sound.

Are these markings for students or other players, to show them what to do? Maybe, maybe not. We just don't know.

But I do know that as a teacher I tell students to release those notes as quickly as possible to glide to the next position. It's about ease of playing.


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Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703376
01/09/18 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinb

Sure; I'm not dismissing the applicability of finger-switching during fast passages completely. I can see why there might be some occasions when it's necessary. I just don't see many of them in my future; in the situations I encounter in practice I can still play more quickly with the same finger.

I can only tell you this: the idea of practicing a technique, before you need it, in the hope that you will EVENTUALLY be able to use it, is a very tricky thing. So as teachers we try to give students at least some pieces, early, using this technique in places where it has to be used.

Then if they reject those pieces, all of them, then we just let it go. wink

For instance, if you just loved that Scarlatti I linked to, and if you were determined to play it, even if it took you 10 years, you'd learn the changing finger technique. Then you'd have that skill for the rest of your life.

If you never play anything with that style, you don't need it.

Last edited by Gary D.; 01/09/18 06:11 AM.

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Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703435
01/09/18 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
Originally Posted by Stubbie
Chopin was more likely indicating a different sound he had in mind, imo.


Possible so. He wouldn't have got it, though, unless his piano has some long-forgotten mechanism to change tone with keypress duration.

Ironically, a modern digital piano could be programmed to change the tone of the note according to keypress duration, and so match what some pianists and composers erroneously believe happens with an acoustic piano.
He was after some change in technique which would have resulted in a different sound to the listener's ears. A different sound to the listener's ears results from the combination of tone (speed and duration of keypress), timing, and pedal. No need to invoke a long-forgotten mechanism. How Chopin notated this desired different sound has left us with questions as to what that sound was intended to be and how we are to go about it. Gary indicates how he does it with briefly grabbing the note with the pedal.

Chopin was quite knowledgeable about the mechanism of producing tone on the piano. He scoffed at piano players of the time who pressed the key and moved their finger around with the intention of producing vibrato.


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Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703479
01/09/18 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
Originally Posted by hreichgott
(It is possible to do what JohnSprung suggests, where you only let the key come up to the point where your piano's hammer is ready to play again, but that point is different on every piano -- it would require completely re-learning your legato technique every time you went to play on a different piano.)


That's my worry. When I play piano in public settings, it's usually in "village hall" environments. I count myself lucky if all the keys sound a note. I certainly wouldn't want to have to find a one millimetre point in the travel of each key where it's possible to resound the note without the hammer falling.


This, in part, is why it's a good idea to get a little practice time on as many different pianos as you can. To learn to adapt, you have to do it.


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Re: legato [Re: Gary D.] #2703480
01/09/18 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
But Debussy, in general, was a very practical person, and many of his staccatos, with the pedal down, were about getting to what comes next in the easiest possible way.


+1, and it's an opportunity to relax for a split second. It's a useful thing to know for all music, not just Debussy.


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Re: legato [Re: pianoloverus] #2703483
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Or, since you've played repeated notes with the same finger most of your life that approach is easier for you because it is a learned effect. I think changing notes is easier for most people even when they first try it and is not just due to practice.


I was a same-finger guy for a long time until I learned about finger changing from a Robert Estrin video. Now I use either, depending on what else has to be done. But if it's a close decision, I tend to go more with changing. Another thing changing can do is help you move your hand sideways to get to where you need to go next.



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Re: legato [Re: iamanders] #2703526
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Quote
. . . Chopin was quite knowledgeable about the mechanism of producing tone on the piano. He scoffed at piano players of the time who pressed the key and moved their finger around with the intention of producing vibrato. . . .


Musing . . .

I don't think any DP's (even stage pianos) support "aftertouch" (sensitivity to pressure on the key, after it's been struck), but a fair number of synths have it. And some of them even support "polyphonic aftertouch".

Linking aftertouch to "vibrato depth" would be easy, I think. And polyphonic aftertouch would let you have a piano sound, with the freedom of pitch of a clavichord.

Chopin might be pleased, or not.<G> I suspect that, if he had such an instrument, he'd figure out a way to use the feature.


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Re: legato [Re: iamanders] #2703536
01/09/18 08:41 PM
01/09/18 08:41 PM
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Although I think it's not totally agreed on by knowledgeable pianists that a note or chord played with pedal and staccato sounds different than a note played with pedal and a non staccato touch, I think many/most professional think this is the case. I am virtually certain that Debussy or Chopin wrote it that way for this reason.

I don't think it's correct to assume pedal with staccato notation is used to make it easier to perform a passage. If that was true why did Debussy include examples like this in, for example, his first Prelude Book I where there is plenty of time to go from one chord to the next one? In the typical Chopin Waltz left hand pattern one has to move quite quickly from the low bass note to the higher chords but Chopin typically doesn't mark those notes staccato.

Re: legato [Re: pianoloverus] #2703545
01/09/18 09:42 PM
01/09/18 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Although I think it's not totally agreed on by knowledgeable pianists that a note or chord played with pedal and staccato sounds different than a note played with pedal and a non staccato touch, I think many/most professional think this is the case..


This hypothesis could certainly be tested empirically. All we have to do is record several examples both ways, choose the ones where the amplitude matches, and see if a listener can tell the difference.


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Re: legato [Re: pianoloverus] #2703595
01/10/18 03:51 AM
01/10/18 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Although I think it's not totally agreed on by knowledgeable pianists that a note or chord played with pedal and staccato sounds different than a note played with pedal and a non staccato touch, I think many/most professional think this is the case. I am virtually certain that Debussy or Chopin wrote it that way for this reason.


There are a great many people who think that astrology, mental telepathy, and crystal healing are all effective. That doesn't mean they are right.

The idea that the sound of a piano tone can be influenced after the hammer has struck the key and fallen, with the damper up, is as unscientific and plainly wrong as the idea that the positions of the planets influences my fate.

It doesn't matter how many people believe it, or how fervently they believe it -- they are all wrong. This isn't opinion; it's a fact in the same class as heavy objects fall, or hot things cool.

Being slightly less dogmatic one could, as JohnSprung says, test this empirically. However, it would be like testing for telepathy -- the amount of evidence needed to prove something so unscientific would have to be truly colossal.

Re: legato [Re: iamanders] #2703601
01/10/18 04:20 AM
01/10/18 04:20 AM
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Holding the pedal down on makes the action lighter because the damper is already lifted. That could explain the effect.


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Re: legato [Re: iamanders] #2703603
01/10/18 04:33 AM
01/10/18 04:33 AM
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I posted a link about some of this 'magic' thinking on Reddit, and got a few other links in response, talking about keybed noise and the bending of the hammers under acceleration, even the lack of clean hammer contact at high speed producing harsh overtones. I think those are both probably valid parts of the overall piano sound, but the difference between players and techniques is going to be tiny.

Qaz, the damper is already lifted in both examples given both, legato and staccato playing, so that isn't relevant to the supposed pedalled staccato bell-like effect.

Re: legato [Re: GoldmanT] #2703618
01/10/18 06:52 AM
01/10/18 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GoldmanT
I posted a link about some of this 'magic' thinking on Reddit, and got a few other links in response, talking about keybed noise and the bending of the hammers under acceleration, even the lack of clean hammer contact at high speed producing harsh overtones. I think those are both probably valid parts of the overall piano sound, but the difference between players and techniques is going to be tiny.


It's going to be tiny even if these hammer phenomena happen, and experiments done with high-speed filming show that they don't happen. The action "throws" the hammer at the string so, when the hammer strikes, it is not in contact with anything that can be influenced by the key. I seem to recall that there was at one time a fashion for explaining the (non-) effect by claiming that the duration of key-press influenced the amount of vibration of the hammer on its shank, and this different vibration could cause a different tone. However, even if this were true, attempts to capture this effect of shank vibration using high-speed photography failed.

Certainly listeners can perceive key-bed noise, but only the strike of the key on the bed, not the release. This has been shown by experiments where key-bed noise was artificially removed from recordings.

Re: legato [Re: iamanders] #2703649
01/10/18 09:28 AM
01/10/18 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Although I think it's not totally agreed on by knowledgeable pianists that a note or chord played with pedal and staccato sounds different than a note played with pedal and a non staccato touch, I think many/most professional think this is the case..

This hypothesis could certainly be tested empirically. All we have to do is record several examples both ways, choose the ones where the amplitude matches, and see if a listener can tell the difference.

This is quite easy to test. I've done it in a casual manner, with one pianist (myself) and one listener. We did as much as we could to make the test fair: the listener could not see me at all, to rule out any visual clues I might be giving, and I threw a coin to determine if I would use a staccato or a legato touch. The results were interesting:

- If I kept the pedal depressed and played a single note, my listener was incapable of telling if I had released the key straight away or held it down for a longer period. She was right about 50% of the time, no better than random guessing.

- If I kept the pedal depressed and played a series of notes (a short melody or an arpeggio), my listener had a reasonable degree of success hearing if I was using a legato or a staccato touch. She was right about 75% of the time, much better than random guessing.

So what was going on? Magic? No: when I was playing a series of notes with a staccato touch, I was playing more regularly, both in dynamics and rhythm, than when I played with legato touch. The legato playing induced more shaping of the phrase.

I found out that I could trick my listener: if I played the notes staccato, but concentrated on shaping the series of notes as if it was a sung legato phrase, my listener heard it as legato. It was also possible to play legato and make my listener believe I was using a staccato touch, but I did find it a bit harder this way round because I needed to play very evenly, giving each note the same weight.

So yes, playing staccato with the pedal down has its uses, but you need to know that all you are doing is refining the control of the dynamics of each note.


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Re: legato [Re: iamanders] #2703689
01/10/18 01:08 PM
01/10/18 01:08 PM
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With the sustain pedal down, play it as a staccato, and it will happen (even if it won't).
True Kantianism for pianists.


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Re: legato [Re: kevinb] #2703750
01/10/18 05:34 PM
01/10/18 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinb
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Although I think it's not totally agreed on by knowledgeable pianists that a note or chord played with pedal and staccato sounds different than a note played with pedal and a non staccato touch, I think many/most professional think this is the case. I am virtually certain that Debussy or Chopin wrote it that way for this reason.


There are a great many people who think that astrology, mental telepathy, and crystal healing are all effective. That doesn't mean they are right.

The idea that the sound of a piano tone can be influenced after the hammer has struck the key and fallen, with the damper up, is as unscientific and plainly wrong as the idea that the positions of the planets influences my fate.

It doesn't matter how many people believe it, or how fervently they believe it -- they are all wrong. This isn't opinion; it's a fact in the same class as heavy objects fall, or hot things cool.

Being slightly less dogmatic one could, as JohnSprung says, test this empirically. However, it would be like testing for telepathy -- the amount of evidence needed to prove something so unscientific would have to be truly colossal.
I happen to strongly agree with the thinking in your second paragraph. OTOH I'm virtually certain that Chopin and Debussy wrote those staccatos because they didn't agree with you and they are not exactly nobodies in terms of understanding piano technique and sound. They were also both very precise in their noatation. OTOH they may not have been concerned about comparing the sounds produced by staccato and non staccato at exactly the same volume which I think is what you're talking about.

I think the truth may be closer to what MRC posted a few posts before this one. Or it may be that the staccato touch with the pedal allows one to control the speed of the keystroke more easily/appropriately in the passages where Debussy and Chopin marked staccato.

There has been a lot of discussion of this topic in the past at PW. I don't remember how many people felt one way or the other, but I think there were high level pianists on both sides.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/10/18 05:55 PM.
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