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Situation:
I work with a teacher on-line and have just switched from Skype to (Youtube) Hangouts so finally a chance to get away from horrible sound issues, so I'd like to also improve the sound.

A fellow student uses a Yeti microphone (USB), and I'm reading good things about it. I like that you're stuck with cardioid mode; you can select stereo, omnidirection and "figure eight". If for example your teacher wants you to count and play, so that you have to move off center, a mike in cardioid loses your voice since you must be directly facing it.

Meanwhile I learned of the Yeti Pro, which is a whopping $100+ more in price. While USB is one way of using it, there is also a port of XLR cable. I already have a mixer and XLR cable for my old Behringer (cardioid only). Since I do have a digital piano, I have the option of sending my piano sound through cable into the mixer, together with the microphone for my voice - as opposed to the piano and my voice being out in the room, and both picked up by the mike. With the Yeti Pro I actually have both options..

Does anyone have experience with these things? For example, when you're going out into cyberspace, do these two options make much of a difference?

Some history: Originally I tried the combination of Behringer cardioid together with line-in piano. I had to keep my face rather close to the microphone and couldn't turn my head much. For music quality we went to sent recordings, and for most sessions I had my Logitech headset with its attached microphone, which picked up the piano "sufficiently". Skype became so bad that it hardly mattered. I recorded a Hangout call "with myself", playing the piano over cable, and again picked up by the headset microphone. Obviously the former was much better - but I'm not comparing with a quality microphone.

Unknowns for me right now: Distance from microphone is a concern. When you are at the piano, and if the mike is sitting on top like the desk, you are not "up close" like someone sitting at his desk doing a video blog. If you bring the microphone close to your head, like I did with the Behringer, you're trying not to dash your head into the thing when you play.

Is the Pro more sensitive --- over-sensitive?

Anything else I should consider, including possibly other options. So far the Yeti gives a good impression, but I'm still a relative babe in the woods.

I have a Yeti mic (non-pro). I have used it in stereo mode with the mic to the side of the piano and my voice can still be heard, just not as well as the piano is. I use it with Artistworks and have had no issues, it was a big upgrade from using my phone for sure.

Sorry I can not speak for the pro model. It was more then I was willing to spend on a mic.

Mike

Before I get started:

. . . Which Behringer mic were you using?

(a) Mixing the "line out" (or "headphone out") from the DP, with the Yeti for your voice, and feeding the mixed signal into the computer, seems like a good setup.

There's a gain control on the Yeti Pro -- you won't overload it (unless you set the gain control too high).

(b) Better, might be to use a headset mic (or headworn mic), or a small lavalier mic, for your voice. That way, you can move around the keyboard (or around the room), and the mic-to-mouth distance doesn't change. (Ham-radio operators who use desk-mounted mics tend to have a lot of room noise, and unwanted reverb. Head-mounted mics work better. I don't know what podcasters are doing.)

If you could figure out how to supply bias voltage to your Logitech headset mic, and feed _that_ into the mixer, you might save the cost of the Yeti.

(c) I have a bias:

. . . I like mics on stands, better than on desks or the top of a piano.

A stand-with-boom is inexpensive, and gives you a lot of freedom in placing the mic. If the stand is behind the piano, and the boom comes forward toward you, there's no interference with playing. Singing pianists have used that arrangement. You can probably stand-mount the Yeti, if you want. But the mic is still _fixed_, not headworn.

A Shure SM58 is compatible with any mixer with a mic preamp. Its pattern is cardioid (not "supercardioid"), and if your head is in front of the mic, it'll pick you up. Your Behringer might be just as good. It's the quality of the _piano_ sound you care about (unless you're singing), not the quality of your "spoken-word" sound.

Thank you to both Michael and Charles for your answers.


It's a C-1.
The problem was that it's the "cardioid" kind. I couldn't talk and move around like for example playing and counting, because you need to pretty well face the mike and not be too far away.


What I understood was that the gain control no longer works when you feed it into the mixer, that in that case you would use the gain control of the mixer itself. Do you know anything about that? (I simply saw that info. on someone's Youtube channel. ).

I heard the Yeti is more sensitive, which is a minus if you are doing recordings which you want to have perfect while not having a soundproofed studio without ambient noise. But I was guessing that this same sensitivity might also pick up my voice when I move around, while the Behringer with the cardioid-only setting, is designed to shut out.

Isn't that what I have with my Logitech headset with built-in mike? But I don't think that I can feed a line-in and also have the headset going. It's one or the other. As I understand it, the headset would have to have XLR going to the mixer, which it doesn't. Same for the Lavalier mike - can that combine with line-in piano? If it can't, then we're right back to the other solution --- a microphone that will pick up both the piano and my voice sufficiently; or a microphone that can combine with the line-in piano, and does a decent job of capturing my voice.

I have no idea how to do that, or if it's even possible.

I have one. I just hauled it out to take a picture. It will not fit behind the piano. By the time I put it in place for the photo I remembered why I used to hate doing that.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k61kpcj8abb7gfg/MIKE.jpg?dl=0

You can probably stand-mount the Yeti, if you want. But the mic is still _fixed_, not headworn.

The Behringer was recommended to me as a quality microphone, and I was told that Behringer had a good reputation. The Shure is unidirectional, which is what I'm trying to get away from because my head will not always be in front of the microphone. I already have a unidirectional microphone that is compatible with the mixer.

In my earliest sessions, even when we were talking (theory etc.) I had to constantly be careful to face the microphone or my voice would fade in and out. It was literally a pain in the neck. I was hoping that if my headset won't work for this, that stereo or omnidirectional would avoid this.

What is the reason for that? Is it because of vibrations being transmitted to the microphone - for example the vibration from the keys transmitting itself as thumps?

Is it sitting on the side (on the piano) or do you have it on something else, or do you have it suspended (like from a stand of some sort - some stands attach to desks and similar)?

I have a Zoom H5. When I place it on the side of the piano (mic facing the lid) and my voice can be heard clearly.

I use microphone stand or music stand to hold the H5 and either one works fine.

However, I only use if for recording and never try live streaming.

If you are doing live streaming, you might need to lower the sampling frequency to 44.1k Hz and the bit rate to 16 bit. (depends on your internet upload speed)

I've seen Zoom mentioned before. I just looked it up, and it costs the same as the Yeti Pro. I feel rather ignorant, but I'm not sure that I know what the Zoom actually is. That is, it doesn't look like a microphone. I see it's called a recorder. As a dinosaur, we used to have tape recorders which had built in microphones. So is this like the same thing, except it records onto something different?

Zoom can be used as a portable battery-powered stand alone recorder (with a pair of build in condenser mic) or it can be used as an audio interface. It has 2 extra XLR inputs so that you can add 2 additional mics.

BTW, when the Zoom is used as a recorder, the stereo files will be stored in a SD card. (It has a SD card slot)

When you use it as an audio interface, you just plug the USB cable into PC and it acts like a stereo USB mic.

Thank you, Kenny.

Just curious as to why you said you need to move around, or move your head around, whilst playing and counting?

Also check that you don't have any automatic gain control (agc) in use and don't have the mic picking up feedback from a a loudspeaker use headphones to listen to your teacher.

Ian

Well, unless your music stays in a narrow range, then you do lean to the left or right. The occasion this came up, I was playing something that traveled up and down the keyboard (a lot ).

I'm not sure how agc gets into use. Re: headphones - gotcha. I do that already. I remember a long time ago putting a microphone next to a speaker and it set up quite a feedback squeal.

One answer to the Lavalier option problem posed (suggestion and problem) by Charles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQkYuljMkCo
(don't like the idea of batteries - don't know much about Lavalier ye)

When I record with the yeti I place it to the side of the piano, about two feet away, about a foot up from the lid if it were closed, and two feet down from the keyboard. I am sure it could be mic'd better but for my use of sending videos to a teacher with talking and playing it has worked out for me.

Edit - I guess I should of mentioned I am using the Yeti with my acoustic piano but I would think it would work the same with a digital.

Mike

I have opened a can of worms, with too many crawling around at once . . .



Yes, you _could_ use the Yeti to record both the piano's loudspeakers (through the air) and the player's voice.

But the OP already has a mixer, and is feeding the DP's "Line Out" signal into one input of the mixer (maybe two inputs -- the DP has stereo output), and putting a microphone (for his voice) into another input, and feeding the combined signal into his computer.

Most people find that using the "Line Out" signal gives better results, than trying to mic the DP as though it were an acoustic piano. There's no room noise, and no worries about microphone frequency response, or mic placement, that way.

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A good point. My _guess_ (you should check with the Yeti Pro manual) is that the Yeti's "gain control" controls the signal going into the ADC, and coming out the USB port. So you're probably right, that it doesn't change the "mic-level" signal coming out of the XLR connector.

When you plug a mic with an XLR connector into a mixer, the mic's signal goes through a "pre-amplifier". That pre-amp has its own gain control, separate from the "channel gain" control. In my Behringer Xenyx 802, the pre-amp gain control has a 50-dB range. Even using a condenser mic on a drum, I've been able to turn down the preamp gain so the mixer doesn't overload. The Yeti is spec'ed for a 120-dB maximum sound-pressure level (SPL); overload won't be a problem.



Vibration is one problem. I don't know why, but condenser mics tend to be really sensitive to vibration -- that explains the fancy rubber-band mounts they often use. Vibration can be a problem with stands -- it comes up from the floor.

Also, a stand-with-boom gives you much more freedom in how you arrange the mic -- you can position it up / down / sideways, and point it in whatever direction you want.

The Yeti (designed for desktop use) may have really good internal vibration damping. I haven't tried one. I'm sure that if you put (say) a Behringer C-1 on a DP, in a rigid mount, you _would_ have key thumping through the mic.



It's an interesting video, thanks! What the engineers did, was to put a bias-voltage supply into the cylinder (which the mic needs, in order to work). But they _didn't_ put a mic preamp into the cylinder! So when you plug the 1/4" phone plug into the mixer, the mixer expects a "line-level" signal -- but it gets a "mic level" signal!

. . . That will work for a karaoke box, which usually expects a 1/4" phone plug attached to a dynamic mic.

I've been looking on Amazon for an _inexpensive_ lavalier mic, with an XLR connector to plug into a mixer:

. . . I haven't found one, yet.

The reason I'm wary of the Yeti Pro, in omni-directional mode:

. . . "Omni" mics tend to pick up more room noise, than cardioid mics.

I've been looking for a "battery-bias" box -- something that you could plug a Skype-headset microphone into, with an XLR connector you could plug into a mixer's mic input, or a built-in preamp, so you could plug it into a "line-level" mixer input:

. . . I haven't found one yet.

(Yes, it _is_ possible to build one, and easy if one has the skills and parts. But the OP doesn't.)

So I had some good ideas, but they're "dead ends" using off-the-shelf components.



The Behringer C-1 is a respectable mic. It should be roughly as sensitive as the Yeti Pro. A suggestion:

. . . Change the position of the Behringer -- put it maybe 2' in front of your face, near the wall
. . . behind the DP.

. . . Raise the preamp mic gain, to get a good level for your speaking voice.

. . . If you have any EQ on your mixer, turn the "bass" for the mic channel _all the way down_.

That should let you move around, and still stay in the "sweet spot" of the cardioid pattern. Another suggestion, if you're troubled by "hiss-and-pop" noise:

. . . Use a pop filter, or a foam sleeve, for the C-1.

If that's not good enough, try the Yeti Pro. It's worth a shot.

One thing that would let you use what you already have, optimally:

. . . A "software mixer" that would let you mix the signal from your headset (Skype) microphone,
. . . . . with the output from your mixer carrying the DP sound,
. . . and use that mixed signal for a Skype (or Youtube) source.

Once again, I can't find anything that does that, short of a DAW program. Bummer.

Keystring:

I have a Zoom H4, and really like it. The mics (the two cylinders at the top) are tiny condenser mics. They're fine for voice, and OK for music. The "digital recorder" function behaves just like a tape recorder, if the tape recorder were perfect:

. . . no hiss, no wow, no flutter, flat frequency response.

My teacher has used a Zoom H2 for years, for voice and piano students. No complaints.

Can of worms indeed. But hey, as you start plucking the little wriggly things out of the can and examine them one by one, you learn a lot. You seem to have done some research since, Charles, and thank you for that.

Here's what I've found since last night:

- The Lavalier option would be the best, were it to work with a mixer, assuming it's a quality (i.e. not junky) one so the sound is half way decent and it doesn't fall apart after short use. There are in fact "XLR levaliers" which seem to be pricey, AND for that I'd need a mixer with two XLR receptacles (are they called receptacles?) i.e. "female jacks" for the "male jack" ---- one for the piano cable, one for the Levalier mike cable. I have a small Behringer mixer, the Q502, and it has one "XLR female jack receptacle thingy".

- Levalier again; I finally had to go get some sleep. I was going in circles and at this point was not able to find anything about a more ordinary plug that would go into another outlet of a mixer. A bunch of them could go into the Zoom camera, but that's not what I have or want, and if I did have one, I'm guessing I wouldn't need that mike.

The "good" Levaliers seem to be pricey but I'm not a professional going out to interview someone for the news. I'm totally unfamiliar with these mikes. I'd want the sound to be at least as good as my Logitech headset mike. But the thing only makes sense if it can couple into a mixer for the option of using the piano cable for these on-line sessions. (back to square one).

- Back to the two Yeti options
It appears that the Pro is improved beyond only the fact of the XLR, and it also seems that this option also creates a connection to the computer/net that is a tad more secure (with USB one may need to plug/unplug a number of times).

I watched a pile of videos demonstrating this and that. If you sit close to the mike (your 2 ft.) then you get a wonderful sound - if you sit further back and boost gain you still get a decent sound but start getting ambient noise (not much). My place is quite quiet, and for these purposes such ambient noise isn't a problem. The piano will come across crystal clear using line-in and that's what counts.

I have the option of 4 modes and so don't have to choose whether I want a cardioid mike, omnidirectional mike etc. - There are three physical components and a switch routes to the right combo somehow. The construction appears to be very durable, which in the long run also matters (I'd think). I would choose omni if using the XLR because that way I don't have to point my head, so to say, and am free to move at the piano. But if just talking, discussing theory, I'd switch to cardioid. And can switch.
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Going to your generous input :), Charles

The mike goes from being digital (with USB port) to analog. The mike's gain must still be functional, since the instructions are to set the mike's gain to zero in "analog mode" (i.e. XLR to mixer).

I only understood half of that, but I caught last night that there is a biggish difference between the Pro and regular Yeti in this respect - the Pro deals with sudden loud sounds better and the musician giving the review explained why.

That's what I figured you were thinking of. It's why I asked the two people who use the Yeti with piano, where they place it. If on the piano, when you hit the keys that's a vibration right there. On Youtube they were concerned about word-typing keyboard keys. There is a slightly absorbent rubber on the base. For sitting on a desk I saw a home-made device consisting of a round plastic tray with criss-crossing hair ties; a variant of a kitchen plate cross crossed with rubber bands gotten off grocery store broccoli . There is also a new (?) product called Sorbothane coming in different shapes manufactured to absorb vibrations, also named "Isolate It" https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71h1YWaQ-NL._SL1500_.jpg

So if keeping it on the piano there are those potential options.

Yes, because the point of cardioid is to narrow the field of what it picks up to the speaker facing the mike within that heart-shaped area. But that very feature also forces you to be closer to the mike, and doesn't let you move around while playing both hands in the lower bass or treble and other things. My thinking is that in "omni" mode, with a bit more gain, my voice - if I move around - is in essence part of the "room noise" and gets picked up - I want it to get picked up.

My heartfelt thanks for your extra efforts on my behalf.

It hasn't been half bad. I was registered in ArtistWorks in violin last year, and used it there with the boom stand, hanging down to point at my chin (as instructed by the instructor) - I didn't do much with violin yet. I do remember (again) being nervous about staying within that cardioid bubble with the violin, and that affected how free and relaxed I could be (matters for technique).
I'd qualify that it might be roughly as the Yeti Pro when both are in cardioid mode.

Here I've been neglectful in learning to understand much about my mixer. I did fiddle with the knobs somewhat when using the C-1 over a year ago. I can see why that would make a difference.

This I cannot do. I think my explanation about that came somewhere near my pic of the boom stand. I can only get the stand beside the piano. The boom has to extend to max and the whole arm sort of feels "in my face". The C-1 is heavy so I had to put hang a weighted bag at the other end which makes the whole thing incredibly awkward to set up. 2' in front of my face doesn't work when my face is moving. I.e., I've been that route.


No hisses or pops. Years ago when I borrowed someone's mike I had tons of hisses in that recording. Not with the present setup.

I've been hearing Zoom mentioned for years so I figured it can't be a bad device.
The price seems to be about the same as the Yeti pro, and more expensive than the regular Yeti. I don't need the recording feature since my computer does that. If the sound for my voice were to be good, and if it interfaces with the mixer for the piano part ..... how would that compare to the microphone options?

On this point - something I started discovering and pondering last night:

My mixer does have two line-in inputs for the piano. There is one XLR input thingy which for my Behringer mike is all I need. The Yeti-Pro has a 5-pin going from the mike, and the cable splits into two, for potential stereo output. My mixer has only one XLR input thingy. I researched forever last night, and finally found out that this is only needed if you choose stereo mode. Otherwise the white jack gets used and I'm all set. A mixer upgrade for that stereo feature would only be about $92 CAD but I don't need it.

I do need to start understanding my mixer. I printed out a whole manual about mixers and it's sitting there. Last night I discovered a bunch of tutorials showing knob after knob; I've found some Youtube tutorials quite helpful, though it can be disconcerting when the tutor is a 10 year old boy.

Well, there _is_ at least one lavalier, condenser mic with an XLR connector that'll go into a standard "mic level" mixer input:

https://www.amazon.ca/BOYA-Microphone-Interview-Camcorders-Windscreen/dp/B01AULRE34

(That's Canadian Amazon; there should be equivalent models for the US and elsewhere).

There's a YouTube review here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVSPrga_UzU

and based on that, the Boya mic (either one of them) would be fine for talking with a teacher on Skype / YouTube.

My guess is that your mixer has a switch for 48v "phantom power", so that'll be OK.


Yes, you're right about the mixer:

. . . One mic-level input for the microphone;

. . . two line-level inputs for the DP ("right" and "left" channel),

. . . all mixed into a single output channel.

So a Behringer "502"-series mixer will do the job.

I'd be interested in hearing what you decide on, and how it works out.

Thanks --

That might definitely be worth a try. (I'm in Canada too, btw. )

I also see I had a brain fart last night, because I was thinking that I need two XLR receptacles because of the piano, but the piano doesn't plug into XLR.

In this case I'd like to get the best sound quality possible even if I spend a bit more, as well as durability, because I'd like to put the days behind me when I had to settle for second rate things that fell apart soon and needed to be patched together or put up with out of lack of choice.

One last question - how do you think the sound would be in comparison to the mike of the Logitech head set? (I don't actually know how good such mikes are - just that it's better than the laptop).

I'm now exploring the XLR Lavalier options, now that I know it's an option. FWIW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Gdd2hfHsc

adding: right now I'm reading the reviews of the Comica, which has only 5 and 4 stars, and the first review is extensive and apparently by a professional: link