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Hi!

I've been looking for a digital piano for a few months as I just recently started working. I'm so far been mostly impressed by a few Kawai models and recently played the MP 11 for an hour. I did like it, except for the piano sound (headphones were probably not the best). Even though the MP 11 SE have "newer" sounds (still missing organ sounds), I'm kind of taking a step back. Towards the ES8 as it probably is better suited for me now.

What I want is a good piano keyboard, that can sometimes play a bit of organ, ep, strings. I never use pitch bend or modulation wheel on my current old cheap Yamaha keyboard, so I don't really need it. It should be turned on instantly with one button, so a VPC1 solution is not what I want right now. I also want it to be rather portable, and ES 8 > MP 11 there even if the ES8 still is pretty heavy. The RH3 is not as good as Grand Feel, but a lot better than what I have now, and probably less likely to have problems (I've read about some different issues with Grand Feel).

I have tried a few other models, including a couple of Nords, a Roland RD-2000 but have so far liked the kawais the most. Also from reading online, Kawai models seems interesting for the price. There are very few Kawai resellers in Sweden so it's hard to try them out.

The Kawai ES 8 is much cheaper (I can get a B-stock for ~1400 USD) than the MP 11 SE, and with built in speakers I save even more. So the only thing I'm thinking about now is if the ES 9 might come during 2018 or not. Most other Kawai models have been updated, so it kind of looks like ES's turn, am I right? Are there any expected updates for a possible ES 9 that would be deal breaking?

My plan would be to get the ES 8 now. In maybe 5 years I have probably moved somewhere else and can look for a high end piano solution then (maybe even acoustic grand). If I think the ES is the right model for me, would you suggest I get it at 1400 USD now or do you expect a superior ES 9 coming soon?

I haven't heard about an ES 9 coming soon, and kind of doubt it - the ES 8 is only a couple years old since they first arrived in stores, if memory serves.

A couple of things to think about:

- Whether a newer model comes out after you purchase something, does not make the current model no longer any good, and in some cases, the previous model can be better (like the in case of Yamaha P155 vs. P255).

- Unless you know fro sure that a particular model is due for an upgrade, there's very little sense in waiting around - that's time wasted when you could be enjoying your new instrument

- It sounds like the ES8 suits you very well and that's a great price. Go for it!

ES8 has been released Sep 2015, most piano models are on a 2-3 year update cadence.

While it would be possible for an ES9 to make an appearance in 2018, I am not sure what KAWAI would improve on.

What I could see as the biggest factor is beefier speakers and maybe their new SK-EX rendering engine.

The MP-7SE was updated a few months ago, did NOT get SK-EX rendering (probably because it doesn't cooperate well with MIDI, giving it a rather limited usefulness in a stage piano like the MP-7SE). MP-7SE also did not get a newer action than RH3, so I don't think KAWAI has anything newer in the works there either.

Bottom line of my incoherent rambling: while the clock says "update imminent", the released tech begs the question "update with what?".

Well, personally .... I am so pleased with my ES8 that I would be very careful in updating to the ES9 even if it did arrive soon.

I would not worry about a "superior ES9" any time soon.

You will love the ES8.

Thanks for the advices, I will go for the ES8.

Hi Meikaruza,

Exactly in the same position as you! Maybe KAWAI JAMES can help us on this one.

Also had an MP11SE ordered until this week and changed yesterday my order to a Kawai ES8, since as a beginner I'm sure it will be more than enough to start with piano learning.

But would also be disappointed if in NAMM January 2018 Kawai would introduce a ES8 SE or ES9.

KAWAI James? Can you help to clarify this one please?

Kawai James?...

I doubt he would be allowed to do that.
If you are that worried, why don't you just wait that one month?

Personally I am waiting for January NAMM too, to see whether something of interest pops up within my budget, if not I'll pull the trigger and shoot me a MP-7SE.

Be mindful though, DPs are like computers, there's always sth. new around the corner and at some point you have to make a decision.

Thank you Granyala.
You are right.

There will be an ES9 in 2018, I'm pretty sure about that, the release cycle is 3 years and ES8 was released in 2015. Whether that would be at the beginning of the year, in the summer or rather at the end, that's not clear.

With that in mind and if you already have an instrument, I'd rather wait for ES9. But it depends on your mentality. I'm not that kind of guy to purchase a three year old instrument when a new one is imminent. Some people find those a good deal and will tell you it's still a good instrument and whatever but you will feel the bitter taste once the new instrument has been released But that's me.

Things that a possible ES9 might or might not have that are missing in the ES8:

- Bluetooth (MIDI)
- SHS spatial sound (for headphones)
- A full General MIDI 2 sound set
- even better speakers
- a different design, something inspired by the MP7/MP11 SE models perhaps

Probably it would still have the "Harmonic Imaging XL" sound source and the "SK-EX Rendering" is reserved for higher models.

Bluetooth MIDI can be added with an external device. Likewise any extra sounds.

The design is a matter of taste, unless they somehow manage to move the pedals further back to please claustrophobic customers and bring the music stand forwards to please squinting customers. But there's no room, unless they change the overall device depth and design.

The spatial sound might actually matter for headphone users.

Thanks for the input. ES9 might be on the way. But as I have a good price for this ES8, I'm going for it.

The possible updates clothearednincompo mentioned are things I can live without. The ES8 still have most of Kawai latest features and techniques and what I need.

Hi Meikaruza:

Here is the answer to our doubts!!!



Hello,

There is no new ES model coming in the next few months so you don’t need to worry about that.

Regards,


Alan

-------------------------

Hi,

I am at this moment ordering a Kawai ES8 for piano learning.

Can you tell me if Kawai intends to launch a newer model substituting the ES8 in the next few months?

It would be disappoiting to order now and a newer model coming out next month or so.

Thank you.
Eduardo

Who is Alan? I guess a dealer. Why would you think a dealer would know something about forthcoming products of a company that is apparently very serious about keeping corporate secrets? Even if we assume for a moment that Alan has received some information he was not supposed to receive, which is highly unlikely, why would you believe a dealer will risk telling you a about a new instrument, so he can’t sell his current stock of ES8? And so that you can share it on a public forum. He’d rather say “there won’t be a new instrument in the coming months”.

What I’m saying is dealers are no better than you and me in knowing stuff like that. I’d even say we’re usually better than them I keep being amazed at people thinking dealers are some guys that know company secrets and are ready to share it with any Joe

And he’s technically right. Assuming Kawai announce ES9 today, it won’t be available in stores for at least a few months. I could’ve told you that as well

The MP7SE is the instrument to go for if you want organs, eps and strings. The preset sounds in all those categories are stunning, as are the standard patches. Also, the MP7SE has the SK-EX pianos that are in the ES8, as well as having the same action as the ES8. All in all, that makes the MP7SE a much nicer deal.

The MP11SE won't have the stage capacities of the MP7SE as it's not really a stage piano as it is a home or studio portable with no speakers. The main attraction---the Grand Feel 1 action---is why people chose it, and they want the best piano action money can buy in a portable piano. If you're talking about other instruments (organs, eps etc) then the stage piano is the instrument to go for, not a portable. The MP7SE, RD800, CP4, RD2000 and Korg Grandstage (or Korg SV1)...Maybe even the Kurzweil Artis or Forte pianos! If you've got more money than sense and like knobs and the colour red, then Nord make a nice stage piano also.

Waiting if it is only a month is the best policy: not only because there might be new models coming out that you would prefer but because older models will become discounted.

Hi Cybergene. When you don't know about something you won't go spreading the word saying what "you think is happening". Makes sense?

Because as a matter of fact, regarding the ES8 subject, you are totally wrong. Alan is a contact I had with Kawai America (search the web site if you want), that had the kindness to answer me at this complicated time of the year in terms of schedules for everyone.

So the email he send me is official and real, as is the information he gave me.

Ask first before you go posting without knowing where the information came from.

Yikes .... I hope "Alan" still has a job.

Would be interesting to cross check that with another Kawai representative such as James. He usually refrains from commenting on whether a product will be upgraded soon (or will not be upgraded soon).

Well, in 3 weeks we would have found out anyway, so it's possible that Alans bosses gave him the green light to tell a user that there is nothing to tell.

He did not spoil any possible NAMM surprise after all.