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Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation #2700319
12/29/17 07:58 AM
12/29/17 07:58 AM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content OP
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I'll be in the UK next week for a few days and called a well known music store in the area I'll be staying.

I asked if they will have the Kawai NV10 on the floor for me to test drive. The man I spoke to laughed and said that was trick question.

I was told they have one but it's not available to be played. It seems there were issues and Kawai was not happy with keyboard\action in question and it was removed from the floor.

I'll go to the store next week and see if they will let me take a look anyway.



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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700393
12/29/17 01:47 PM
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Did they make it sound like the "issues" were just with the NV10 they had - or are the "issues" with the NV10 itself?


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700395
12/29/17 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
Did they make it sound like the "issues" were just with the NV10 they had - or are the "issues" with the NV10 itself?





I had the impression that the issue was with the action itself.



website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700521
12/29/17 08:45 PM
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That is very interesting...

Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700551
12/30/17 03:14 AM
12/30/17 03:14 AM
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Sad to hear really.. I was hoping there would be a ton of NV10 inventory available by end of January everywhere, otherwise street price won't be much discounted from MSRP.

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700552
12/30/17 03:19 AM
12/30/17 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...

Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile

One singular piano has a problem with the action - what do you want people to say about it?

Putting a smiley badge after something doesn't disguise your general bitterness, btw.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700553
12/30/17 03:25 AM
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Well, NV10 supposedly went for sale in Japan market early October. We haven't seen a single 'real end user review'. I don't think I have even seen a 'professional review' either. I wonder if they sold any. No proud owner of NV10 bothered to write anything about it anywhere on the internet?

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700554
12/30/17 03:31 AM
12/30/17 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


I don’t know if this is a reference to myself, however my temporary absence can be explained by the fact that I’m currently away on holiday.

I’ll catch up with posts on the way home from the airport.

Happy new year!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700555
12/30/17 03:31 AM
12/30/17 03:31 AM
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The one I have played was in perfect condition. I keep looking for spots I could have put it :-)
I doubt there will be NV10 to be found everywhere soon, but I guess the larger markets will be prioritized. So if you live in a metropolitan area your hopes should be up.

Last edited by Skjalg; 12/30/17 03:33 AM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Kawai James] #2700562
12/30/17 04:16 AM
12/30/17 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Pologuy
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


I don’t know if this is a reference to myself, however my temporary absence can be explained by the fact that I’m currently away on holiday.

It's a reference to a bunch of people who dared to not be negative about the new Novus NV10 until we had tried it. Don't sweat the Pologuy.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: ando] #2700568
12/30/17 04:38 AM
12/30/17 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...

Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile

One singular piano has a problem with the action - what do you want people to say about it?

Putting a smiley badge after something doesn't disguise your general bitterness, btw.


Yes, this. Usual suspects?! Ridiculous statement.


Roland RD-1000 | Kawai CS11 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Korg G1 Air |
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: ando] #2700660
12/30/17 01:26 PM
12/30/17 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
Well, NV10 supposedly went for sale in Japan market early October. We haven't seen a single 'real end user review'. I don't think I have even seen a 'professional review' either. I wonder if they sold any. No proud owner of NV10 bothered to write anything about it anywhere on the internet?

Osho


Exactly - it is just shy of 3 months now - and zero "professional" reviews - nor any owner reviews - nor any type of "review" from anyone - other than one person on here who says they auditioned it and the sound (on a $10,000 piano) was "decent".

Originally Posted by ando

One singular piano has a problem with the action...



If you read correctly - as Dave pointed out - when speaking with the dealer he got the impression that it was not just one single piano that had the "issues" - that it was the entire NV10 line that had the "issues".


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700673
12/30/17 02:26 PM
12/30/17 02:26 PM
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Dave Horne Online content OP
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If you read correctly - as Dave pointed out - when speaking with the dealer he got the impression that it was not just one single piano that had the "issues" - that it was the entire NV10 line that had the "issues".

What I wrote was, 'I had the impression that the issue was with the action itself.'

I have no idea if this is the entire line or just the one keyboard at one location in the UK, please don't read more into what I wrote.


Last edited by Dave Horne; 12/30/17 05:46 PM.


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700683
12/30/17 03:38 PM
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Well, which shop was it...?

According to my very well-placed Kawai source in the UK - there are a very limited number of prototype NV10s in shops in the UK - none of them are production models.


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700698
12/30/17 04:36 PM
12/30/17 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
Well, which shop was it...?

According to my very well-placed Kawai source in the UK - there are a very limited number of prototype NV10s in shops in the UK - none of them are production models.




I'll answer your question in a private message.



website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700730
12/30/17 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
If you read correctly - as Dave pointed out - when speaking with the dealer he got the impression that it was not just one single piano that had the "issues" - that it was the entire NV10 line that had the "issues".

What I wrote was, 'I had the impression that the issue was with the action itself.'

I have no idea if this is the entire line or just the one keyboard at one location in the UK, please don't read more into what I wrote.



Dave, I don’t really want to get involved in this conflict, but given the original question (was the problem with the particular NV10 they had, or NV10s in general, your response (without further elaboration) could reasonably be taken as your impression was a problem with the action in general.

Last edited by Agent88; 12/30/17 06:04 PM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Agent88] #2700751
12/30/17 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Agent88
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
If you read correctly - as Dave pointed out - when speaking with the dealer he got the impression that it was not just one single piano that had the "issues" - that it was the entire NV10 line that had the "issues".

What I wrote was, 'I had the impression that the issue was with the action itself.'

I have no idea if this is the entire line or just the one keyboard at one location in the UK, please don't read more into what I wrote.



Dave, I don’t really want to get involved in this conflict, but given the original question (was the problem with the particular NV10 they had, or NV10s in general, your response (without further elaboration) could reasonably be taken as your impression was a problem with the action in general.


I interpreted my conversation that the piano in question, the one in the store, was not up to the level it should have been.

I'll be at the store in question early next week and report back.



website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2701476
01/02/18 02:12 PM
01/02/18 02:12 PM
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I went to the store in question and the only information I have for certain is Kawai is late in shipping the piano to the UK.

The issue it would appear is transportation. I couldn't get any more information than that.

That's it for now.



website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2701514
01/02/18 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
I went to the store in question and the only information I have for certain is Kawai is late in shipping the piano to the UK.

The issue it would appear is transportation. I couldn't get any more information than that.

That's it for now.


So this is getting more "interesting"... smile

According to them - which is it?

Did they have one and take it off the floor because of the "issues" - or did they never have one because of the "late shipping"...?


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2701583
01/02/18 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
I went to the store in question and the only information I have for certain is Kawai is late in shipping the piano to the UK.

The issue it would appear is transportation. I couldn't get any more information than that.

That's it for now.


So this is getting more "interesting"... smile

According to them - which is it?

Did they have one and take it off the floor because of the "issues" - or did they never have one because of the "late shipping"...?



Purely a theory/speculation without any specific knowledge: Perhaps the issue is that the transportation messes up the grand acoustic action and needs to be fully regulated again? That might explain why it might be available in Japan but not elsewhere yet??

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2701638
01/03/18 03:55 AM
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Quote
That might explain why it might be available in Japan but not elsewhere yet??

Apart from Norway :-)
The action I tested was in perfect condition.

Last edited by Skjalg; 01/03/18 03:55 AM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Skjalg] #2701745
01/03/18 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Skjalg
Quote
That might explain why it might be available in Japan but not elsewhere yet??

Apart from Norway :-)
The action I tested was in perfect condition.


Good to know.

So I really wonder what's going on with such a slow, delayed and limited quantity launch of NV10 - this is exactly the wrong way to launch a major product line in any business.

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Osho] #2701757
01/03/18 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho

So I really wonder what's going on with such a slow, delayed and limited quantity launch of NV10 - this is exactly the wrong way to launch a major product line in any business.


Or could it just be evidence that it is a niche product, for a niche market with a wide spread between the number of people wanting to try it vs number of actual sales? In this context, Kawai not wanting to saturate the market is sensible. Whoever wants one will get one eventually. Let's all be patient.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Osho] #2701759
01/03/18 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
So I really wonder what's going on with such a slow, delayed and limited quantity launch of NV10 - this is exactly the wrong way to launch a major product line in any business.

Osho

I don't see a problem, except for a handful of impatient posters here on the forum (me included grin).

A 9000€ piano is no smartphone (or gaming console, or other must-have-newest-tech) where you need hype to move numbers.

The time frame is quite what I expected. The announcement (of the "later-this-year" release) was in April. True to this announcement, the actual release was then about 6 months later. From then on, delivery to Europe and the US taking another ~3 months (the Novus in Norway appeared after ~2 months) is not a surprise for me either, especially for an item that isn't mass produced (not in the way that other consumer electronics are mass produced) and that comes in two big boxes that together weigh ~130kg.

All in all, this is rolling out quite as I expected. If anything at all, I'm surprised that there actually will be any Novus available outside of Japan, to general customers in Europe and the US, so soon. When it was announced in April, I feared that it would be one of these prestige products with a very low production count, of which only a handful are produced for the domestic Japanese market only.

I don't think that this rollout will in any way have a measurable negative impact on the number of units sold.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Osho] #2701772
01/03/18 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
a major product line


That is rather the point that some here still seem to be struggling to comprehend. Neither the AGs nor this are 'major product lines' they are incredibly niche halo products. I recall KJ mentioned in the other thread that there were initially only 5 available in Japan back in the autumn. It's been clear for months now that availability in EU/US is basically mid January onwards.


Edit: ok I left that unposted for so long 2 others have made the same point already!

Originally Posted by JoBert
(the Novus in Norway appeared after ~2 months) ....

All in all, this is rolling out quite as I expected. If anything at all, I'm surprised that there actually will be any Novus available outside of Japan, to general customers in Europe and the US, so soon.


If the rumour about the early demo models making it this far around the world being not full production models is correct then perhaps the norway shop had one that had no issues? (total speculation there)

Last edited by Bambers; 01/03/18 02:25 PM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2703150
01/08/18 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


What I've heard over the holidays from reputable sources was even more interesting:

Kawai is actually making the Novus NV10 "hybrids" from real GL-10 models, by sawing off the back portion of the grand piano, and gluing a third leg to keep it upright. The hammers are then replaced with high tech composite plastic and optical sensors installed. The sound production is handled by ES-120 prototype put inside the cabinet that gets the signal and sound is then heard through grilles on top the piano.

Back portion of Novus NV10 looks ugly because it's just cardboard that is spray painted black. The process also causes the ugly screws in the back, because glue used for the third leg caused warping in the cardboard and that plan had to be scrapped. It also fully explains the external Onkyo speakers in NV10 demo event, because the ES-120 sound would not have been convincing enough at Musikmesse.

Now the small amount of stock is just because the NV10 action (modified Millennium III with ES120 taped into it with gaffer tape) is somewhat sensitive to transport and changes to humidity. There's also low yields due to cosmetic issues in some units caused by the chainsaw employed in construction, but that's another issue and will be fixed with improved manufacturing processes. This is why models have mostly appeared in Japan. Small amount of reviews from Japan might be due to shame of the new owners when they see the ES120 through the top grilles at home, or just because I've heard another theory that Japan is actually just a marketing ploy of Canadians to make the U.S. believe they're purchasing their stuff from overseas.

I can't disclose my source, but let's just say he's from Korvatunturi and has been in the business of delivering musical instruments and all kinds of things even small children enjoy a LONG TIME.

Now the above might sound incredulous, but it's actually hinted at in the NV10 marketing video: on 2:27 you can notice it if you look carefully: https://youtu.be/wQTJLKVoapA?t=2m28s (you can also see edge of ES120 as well in internal shots of the mechanism). I know that Kawai James cannot corroborate the above facts, but I'm sure he's nodding in silent agreement and relief when he finally sees that...

...The Truth Is Out There.

Last edited by jokke; 01/08/18 11:47 AM. Reason: added "s"
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703156
01/08/18 12:11 PM
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Chainsaw... Ha, ha, ha
I heard from a trusted, very reliable friend that they were inspired by this:





Last edited by Skjalg; 01/08/18 12:20 PM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jokke] #2703185
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Originally Posted by jokke
Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


What I've heard over the holidays from reputable sources was even more interesting:

Kawai is actually making the Novus NV10 "hybrids" from real GL-10 models, by sawing off the back portion of the grand piano, and gluing a third leg to keep it upright. The hammers are then replaced with high tech composite plastic and optical sensors installed. The sound production is handled by ES-120 prototype put inside the cabinet that gets the signal and sound is then heard through grilles on top the piano.

Back portion of Novus NV10 looks ugly because it's just cardboard that is spray painted black. The process also causes the ugly screws in the back, because glue used for the third leg caused warping in the cardboard and that plan had to be scrapped. It also fully explains the external Onkyo speakers in NV10 demo event, because the ES-120 sound would not have been convincing enough at Musikmesse.

Now the small amount of stock is just because the NV10 action (modified Millennium III with ES120 taped into it with gaffer tape) is somewhat sensitive to transport and changes to humidity. There's also low yields due to cosmetic issues in some units caused by the chainsaw employed in construction, but that's another issue and will be fixed with improved manufacturing processes. This is why models have mostly appeared in Japan. Small amount of reviews from Japan might be due to shame of the new owners when they see the ES120 through the top grilles at home, or just because I've heard another theory that Japan is actually just a marketing ploy of Canadians to make the U.S. believe they're purchasing their stuff from overseas.

I can't disclose my source, but let's just say he's from Korvatunturi and has been in the business of delivering musical instruments and all kinds of things even small children enjoy a LONG TIME.

Now the above might sound incredulous, but it's actually hinted at in the NV10 marketing video: on 2:27 you can notice it if you look carefully: https://youtu.be/wQTJLKVoapA?t=2m28s (you can also see edge of ES120 as well in internal shots of the mechanism). I know that Kawai James cannot corroborate the above facts, but I'm sure he's nodding in silent agreement and relief when he finally sees that...

...The Truth Is Out There.


Funny... but at this point it's as good an explanation as any...


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703193
01/08/18 01:46 PM
01/08/18 01:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 142
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jfl Offline
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jfl  Offline
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J
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 142
I'm having a hard time believing this. Kawai would know they're not going sell any DPs that are cobbled together like this once the word gets out. Doesn't make sense. Hopefully NAMM 2018 will clear all of this up. Only a couple of weeks away.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2703196
01/08/18 02:09 PM
01/08/18 02:09 PM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Alexander Borro  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,188
UK
Originally Posted by jfl
I'm having a hard time believing this.


Don't sweat it, it's a funny joke, but I had a good .... ROFL, thx Jokke grin, besides, the front of a GL series piano is not shaped like the NOVUS. I know since I studied the front of the Novus at one time and wondered why I slightly disliked it, it is only minor, but the curves on the side panels drop back towards the top. I would have liked this type of shaping.

[Linked Image]

Sure it is not that critical, but it would be more like my ideal type of style. Also, the music rest I would have done slightly differently in shape.

but I am stickler when it comes to furniture and likes/dislikes, pianos no exception ... so never mind me ... I know I am nitpicking. smile


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Casio AP450 & software.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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