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Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation #2700319
12/29/17 07:58 AM
12/29/17 07:58 AM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline OP
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I'll be in the UK next week for a few days and called a well known music store in the area I'll be staying.

I asked if they will have the Kawai NV10 on the floor for me to test drive. The man I spoke to laughed and said that was trick question.

I was told they have one but it's not available to be played. It seems there were issues and Kawai was not happy with keyboard\action in question and it was removed from the floor.

I'll go to the store next week and see if they will let me take a look anyway.


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700393
12/29/17 01:47 PM
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Did they make it sound like the "issues" were just with the NV10 they had - or are the "issues" with the NV10 itself?


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700395
12/29/17 01:54 PM
12/29/17 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
Did they make it sound like the "issues" were just with the NV10 they had - or are the "issues" with the NV10 itself?





I had the impression that the issue was with the action itself.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700521
12/29/17 08:45 PM
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That is very interesting...

Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700551
12/30/17 03:14 AM
12/30/17 03:14 AM
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Sad to hear really.. I was hoping there would be a ton of NV10 inventory available by end of January everywhere, otherwise street price won't be much discounted from MSRP.

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700552
12/30/17 03:19 AM
12/30/17 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...

Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile

One singular piano has a problem with the action - what do you want people to say about it?

Putting a smiley badge after something doesn't disguise your general bitterness, btw.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700553
12/30/17 03:25 AM
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Well, NV10 supposedly went for sale in Japan market early October. We haven't seen a single 'real end user review'. I don't think I have even seen a 'professional review' either. I wonder if they sold any. No proud owner of NV10 bothered to write anything about it anywhere on the internet?

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700554
12/30/17 03:31 AM
12/30/17 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


I don’t know if this is a reference to myself, however my temporary absence can be explained by the fact that I’m currently away on holiday.

I’ll catch up with posts on the way home from the airport.

Happy new year!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700555
12/30/17 03:31 AM
12/30/17 03:31 AM
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The one I have played was in perfect condition. I keep looking for spots I could have put it :-)
I doubt there will be NV10 to be found everywhere soon, but I guess the larger markets will be prioritized. So if you live in a metropolitan area your hopes should be up.

Last edited by Skjalg; 12/30/17 03:33 AM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Kawai James] #2700562
12/30/17 04:16 AM
12/30/17 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Pologuy
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


I don’t know if this is a reference to myself, however my temporary absence can be explained by the fact that I’m currently away on holiday.

It's a reference to a bunch of people who dared to not be negative about the new Novus NV10 until we had tried it. Don't sweat the Pologuy.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: ando] #2700568
12/30/17 04:38 AM
12/30/17 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...

Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile

One singular piano has a problem with the action - what do you want people to say about it?

Putting a smiley badge after something doesn't disguise your general bitterness, btw.


Yes, this. Usual suspects?! Ridiculous statement.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Korg G1 Air |
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: ando] #2700660
12/30/17 01:26 PM
12/30/17 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
Well, NV10 supposedly went for sale in Japan market early October. We haven't seen a single 'real end user review'. I don't think I have even seen a 'professional review' either. I wonder if they sold any. No proud owner of NV10 bothered to write anything about it anywhere on the internet?

Osho


Exactly - it is just shy of 3 months now - and zero "professional" reviews - nor any owner reviews - nor any type of "review" from anyone - other than one person on here who says they auditioned it and the sound (on a $10,000 piano) was "decent".

Originally Posted by ando

One singular piano has a problem with the action...



If you read correctly - as Dave pointed out - when speaking with the dealer he got the impression that it was not just one single piano that had the "issues" - that it was the entire NV10 line that had the "issues".


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700673
12/30/17 02:26 PM
12/30/17 02:26 PM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline OP
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If you read correctly - as Dave pointed out - when speaking with the dealer he got the impression that it was not just one single piano that had the "issues" - that it was the entire NV10 line that had the "issues".

What I wrote was, 'I had the impression that the issue was with the action itself.'

I have no idea if this is the entire line or just the one keyboard at one location in the UK, please don't read more into what I wrote.


Last edited by Dave Horne; 12/30/17 05:46 PM.

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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700683
12/30/17 03:38 PM
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Well, which shop was it...?

According to my very well-placed Kawai source in the UK - there are a very limited number of prototype NV10s in shops in the UK - none of them are production models.


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2700698
12/30/17 04:36 PM
12/30/17 04:36 PM
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Dave Horne Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
Well, which shop was it...?

According to my very well-placed Kawai source in the UK - there are a very limited number of prototype NV10s in shops in the UK - none of them are production models.




I'll answer your question in a private message.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2700730
12/30/17 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
If you read correctly - as Dave pointed out - when speaking with the dealer he got the impression that it was not just one single piano that had the "issues" - that it was the entire NV10 line that had the "issues".

What I wrote was, 'I had the impression that the issue was with the action itself.'

I have no idea if this is the entire line or just the one keyboard at one location in the UK, please don't read more into what I wrote.



Dave, I don’t really want to get involved in this conflict, but given the original question (was the problem with the particular NV10 they had, or NV10s in general, your response (without further elaboration) could reasonably be taken as your impression was a problem with the action in general.

Last edited by Agent88; 12/30/17 06:04 PM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Agent88] #2700751
12/30/17 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Agent88
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
If you read correctly - as Dave pointed out - when speaking with the dealer he got the impression that it was not just one single piano that had the "issues" - that it was the entire NV10 line that had the "issues".

What I wrote was, 'I had the impression that the issue was with the action itself.'

I have no idea if this is the entire line or just the one keyboard at one location in the UK, please don't read more into what I wrote.



Dave, I don’t really want to get involved in this conflict, but given the original question (was the problem with the particular NV10 they had, or NV10s in general, your response (without further elaboration) could reasonably be taken as your impression was a problem with the action in general.


I interpreted my conversation that the piano in question, the one in the store, was not up to the level it should have been.

I'll be at the store in question early next week and report back.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2701476
01/02/18 02:12 PM
01/02/18 02:12 PM
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I went to the store in question and the only information I have for certain is Kawai is late in shipping the piano to the UK.

The issue it would appear is transportation. I couldn't get any more information than that.

That's it for now.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2701514
01/02/18 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
I went to the store in question and the only information I have for certain is Kawai is late in shipping the piano to the UK.

The issue it would appear is transportation. I couldn't get any more information than that.

That's it for now.


So this is getting more "interesting"... smile

According to them - which is it?

Did they have one and take it off the floor because of the "issues" - or did they never have one because of the "late shipping"...?


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2701583
01/02/18 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
I went to the store in question and the only information I have for certain is Kawai is late in shipping the piano to the UK.

The issue it would appear is transportation. I couldn't get any more information than that.

That's it for now.


So this is getting more "interesting"... smile

According to them - which is it?

Did they have one and take it off the floor because of the "issues" - or did they never have one because of the "late shipping"...?



Purely a theory/speculation without any specific knowledge: Perhaps the issue is that the transportation messes up the grand acoustic action and needs to be fully regulated again? That might explain why it might be available in Japan but not elsewhere yet??

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2701638
01/03/18 03:55 AM
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Quote
That might explain why it might be available in Japan but not elsewhere yet??

Apart from Norway :-)
The action I tested was in perfect condition.

Last edited by Skjalg; 01/03/18 03:55 AM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Skjalg] #2701745
01/03/18 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Skjalg
Quote
That might explain why it might be available in Japan but not elsewhere yet??

Apart from Norway :-)
The action I tested was in perfect condition.


Good to know.

So I really wonder what's going on with such a slow, delayed and limited quantity launch of NV10 - this is exactly the wrong way to launch a major product line in any business.

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Osho] #2701757
01/03/18 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho

So I really wonder what's going on with such a slow, delayed and limited quantity launch of NV10 - this is exactly the wrong way to launch a major product line in any business.


Or could it just be evidence that it is a niche product, for a niche market with a wide spread between the number of people wanting to try it vs number of actual sales? In this context, Kawai not wanting to saturate the market is sensible. Whoever wants one will get one eventually. Let's all be patient.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Osho] #2701759
01/03/18 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
So I really wonder what's going on with such a slow, delayed and limited quantity launch of NV10 - this is exactly the wrong way to launch a major product line in any business.

Osho

I don't see a problem, except for a handful of impatient posters here on the forum (me included grin).

A 9000€ piano is no smartphone (or gaming console, or other must-have-newest-tech) where you need hype to move numbers.

The time frame is quite what I expected. The announcement (of the "later-this-year" release) was in April. True to this announcement, the actual release was then about 6 months later. From then on, delivery to Europe and the US taking another ~3 months (the Novus in Norway appeared after ~2 months) is not a surprise for me either, especially for an item that isn't mass produced (not in the way that other consumer electronics are mass produced) and that comes in two big boxes that together weigh ~130kg.

All in all, this is rolling out quite as I expected. If anything at all, I'm surprised that there actually will be any Novus available outside of Japan, to general customers in Europe and the US, so soon. When it was announced in April, I feared that it would be one of these prestige products with a very low production count, of which only a handful are produced for the domestic Japanese market only.

I don't think that this rollout will in any way have a measurable negative impact on the number of units sold.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Osho] #2701772
01/03/18 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
a major product line


That is rather the point that some here still seem to be struggling to comprehend. Neither the AGs nor this are 'major product lines' they are incredibly niche halo products. I recall KJ mentioned in the other thread that there were initially only 5 available in Japan back in the autumn. It's been clear for months now that availability in EU/US is basically mid January onwards.


Edit: ok I left that unposted for so long 2 others have made the same point already!

Originally Posted by JoBert
(the Novus in Norway appeared after ~2 months) ....

All in all, this is rolling out quite as I expected. If anything at all, I'm surprised that there actually will be any Novus available outside of Japan, to general customers in Europe and the US, so soon.


If the rumour about the early demo models making it this far around the world being not full production models is correct then perhaps the norway shop had one that had no issues? (total speculation there)

Last edited by Bambers; 01/03/18 02:25 PM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2703150
01/08/18 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


What I've heard over the holidays from reputable sources was even more interesting:

Kawai is actually making the Novus NV10 "hybrids" from real GL-10 models, by sawing off the back portion of the grand piano, and gluing a third leg to keep it upright. The hammers are then replaced with high tech composite plastic and optical sensors installed. The sound production is handled by ES-120 prototype put inside the cabinet that gets the signal and sound is then heard through grilles on top the piano.

Back portion of Novus NV10 looks ugly because it's just cardboard that is spray painted black. The process also causes the ugly screws in the back, because glue used for the third leg caused warping in the cardboard and that plan had to be scrapped. It also fully explains the external Onkyo speakers in NV10 demo event, because the ES-120 sound would not have been convincing enough at Musikmesse.

Now the small amount of stock is just because the NV10 action (modified Millennium III with ES120 taped into it with gaffer tape) is somewhat sensitive to transport and changes to humidity. There's also low yields due to cosmetic issues in some units caused by the chainsaw employed in construction, but that's another issue and will be fixed with improved manufacturing processes. This is why models have mostly appeared in Japan. Small amount of reviews from Japan might be due to shame of the new owners when they see the ES120 through the top grilles at home, or just because I've heard another theory that Japan is actually just a marketing ploy of Canadians to make the U.S. believe they're purchasing their stuff from overseas.

I can't disclose my source, but let's just say he's from Korvatunturi and has been in the business of delivering musical instruments and all kinds of things even small children enjoy a LONG TIME.

Now the above might sound incredulous, but it's actually hinted at in the NV10 marketing video: on 2:27 you can notice it if you look carefully: https://youtu.be/wQTJLKVoapA?t=2m28s (you can also see edge of ES120 as well in internal shots of the mechanism). I know that Kawai James cannot corroborate the above facts, but I'm sure he's nodding in silent agreement and relief when he finally sees that...

...The Truth Is Out There.

Last edited by jokke; 01/08/18 11:47 AM. Reason: added "s"
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703156
01/08/18 12:11 PM
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Chainsaw... Ha, ha, ha
I heard from a trusted, very reliable friend that they were inspired by this:





Last edited by Skjalg; 01/08/18 12:20 PM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jokke] #2703185
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Originally Posted by jokke
Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


What I've heard over the holidays from reputable sources was even more interesting:

Kawai is actually making the Novus NV10 "hybrids" from real GL-10 models, by sawing off the back portion of the grand piano, and gluing a third leg to keep it upright. The hammers are then replaced with high tech composite plastic and optical sensors installed. The sound production is handled by ES-120 prototype put inside the cabinet that gets the signal and sound is then heard through grilles on top the piano.

Back portion of Novus NV10 looks ugly because it's just cardboard that is spray painted black. The process also causes the ugly screws in the back, because glue used for the third leg caused warping in the cardboard and that plan had to be scrapped. It also fully explains the external Onkyo speakers in NV10 demo event, because the ES-120 sound would not have been convincing enough at Musikmesse.

Now the small amount of stock is just because the NV10 action (modified Millennium III with ES120 taped into it with gaffer tape) is somewhat sensitive to transport and changes to humidity. There's also low yields due to cosmetic issues in some units caused by the chainsaw employed in construction, but that's another issue and will be fixed with improved manufacturing processes. This is why models have mostly appeared in Japan. Small amount of reviews from Japan might be due to shame of the new owners when they see the ES120 through the top grilles at home, or just because I've heard another theory that Japan is actually just a marketing ploy of Canadians to make the U.S. believe they're purchasing their stuff from overseas.

I can't disclose my source, but let's just say he's from Korvatunturi and has been in the business of delivering musical instruments and all kinds of things even small children enjoy a LONG TIME.

Now the above might sound incredulous, but it's actually hinted at in the NV10 marketing video: on 2:27 you can notice it if you look carefully: https://youtu.be/wQTJLKVoapA?t=2m28s (you can also see edge of ES120 as well in internal shots of the mechanism). I know that Kawai James cannot corroborate the above facts, but I'm sure he's nodding in silent agreement and relief when he finally sees that...

...The Truth Is Out There.


Funny... but at this point it's as good an explanation as any...


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703193
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I'm having a hard time believing this. Kawai would know they're not going sell any DPs that are cobbled together like this once the word gets out. Doesn't make sense. Hopefully NAMM 2018 will clear all of this up. Only a couple of weeks away.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2703196
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Originally Posted by jfl
I'm having a hard time believing this.


Don't sweat it, it's a funny joke, but I had a good .... ROFL, thx Jokke grin, besides, the front of a GL series piano is not shaped like the NOVUS. I know since I studied the front of the Novus at one time and wondered why I slightly disliked it, it is only minor, but the curves on the side panels drop back towards the top. I would have liked this type of shaping.

[Linked Image]

Sure it is not that critical, but it would be more like my ideal type of style. Also, the music rest I would have done slightly differently in shape.

but I am stickler when it comes to furniture and likes/dislikes, pianos no exception ... so never mind me ... I know I am nitpicking. smile


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703206
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I’m quite happy with how the NV10 looks. Those jutting side cheeks would have been too heavy, for a piano that does not have the massive body of an actual grand behind it, imo.

Well, it’s a matter of taste, I guess...

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703232
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It was a fun read. If anything, it goes to show what happens when things are slow around here smile


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: JoBert] #2703241
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Originally Posted by JoBert
I’m quite happy with how the NV10 looks. Those jutting side cheeks would have been too heavy, for a piano that does not have the massive body of an actual grand behind it, imo.

Well, it’s a matter of taste, I guess...


Overall, I think the NOVUS front looks nice ( in the realm of digitals ) from what I see in pics. Putting it against a wall and the front part facing you it would fit nicely in a room somewhere I suspect. There is no obvious control panel ruining it, so it will provide a nice enough illusion sitting behind a grand if you forget what's behind it, I dig that type of thing. smile So kudos to Kawai for that, they didn't ruin it like many models. Some go so far to make that grand looking cabinet, like the V grand piano and then you have that horrid looking control panel ruining the whole thing. I wouldn't want it in the front room anyway. The Kawai CP1 looks even worse that way ... IMO ... but to each their own.

If it goes upstairs in the music room in my case, I don't care so much, as long as it is not totally horrendous looking I could live with a CA 78, sure, I find it is not an object of beauty by any means, and as far as styling goes, given a choice, I'd rather prefer the Clavinova cabinets, but if it was simply down to the piano action as a deciding factor, a cabinet is not going to sway me one way or the other.

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 01/08/18 04:29 PM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703261
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Interesting Dave. I stopped by my local Kawai dealer, (recently changed ownership as they are Shigeru-Kawai and Bösendorfer distributors so they had some nice things to try out grin ) and the manager mentioned they were about to launch the NV-10 and invited me down to play it. He said it’s a game changer. I can only imagine what the spectacular SK-EX sample sound like with an authentic action and high end sound system must be like to experience.


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: PianoZac] #2703274
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I'm looking forward to playing one and could consider trading in my N3 just to have a brand new action. (Since I practice almost exclusively with headphones, the furniture aspect of the N3 is lost on me.)


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703313
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Will be curious to hear how it compares with the N3. How long have you had your N3? I’ve had my N1 now for 4 years and haven’t had a single thing done to it. Mostly speaking in regards to action work.


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jokke] #2703322
01/08/18 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jokke
Originally Posted by Pologuy
That is very interesting...
Almost as interesting is the deafening silence of the usual suspects on here... smile


What I've heard over the holidays from reputable sources was even more interesting:

Kawai is actually making the Novus NV10 "hybrids" from real GL-10 models, by sawing off the back portion of the grand piano, and gluing a third leg to keep it upright. The hammers are then replaced with high tech composite plastic and optical sensors installed. The sound production is handled by ES-120 prototype put inside the cabinet that gets the signal and sound is then heard through grilles on top the piano.

Back portion of Novus NV10 looks ugly because it's just cardboard that is spray painted black. The process also causes the ugly screws in the back, because glue used for the third leg caused warping in the cardboard and that plan had to be scrapped. It also fully explains the external Onkyo speakers in NV10 demo event, because the ES-120 sound would not have been convincing enough at Musikmesse.

Now the small amount of stock is just because the NV10 action (modified Millennium III with ES120 taped into it with gaffer tape) is somewhat sensitive to transport and changes to humidity. There's also low yields due to cosmetic issues in some units caused by the chainsaw employed in construction, but that's another issue and will be fixed with improved manufacturing processes. This is why models have mostly appeared in Japan. Small amount of reviews from Japan might be due to shame of the new owners when they see the ES120 through the top grilles at home, or just because I've heard another theory that Japan is actually just a marketing ploy of Canadians to make the U.S. believe they're purchasing their stuff from overseas.

I can't disclose my source, but let's just say he's from Korvatunturi and has been in the business of delivering musical instruments and all kinds of things even small children enjoy a LONG TIME.

Now the above might sound incredulous, but it's actually hinted at in the NV10 marketing video: on 2:27 you can notice it if you look carefully: https://youtu.be/wQTJLKVoapA?t=2m28s (you can also see edge of ES120 as well in internal shots of the mechanism). I know that Kawai James cannot corroborate the above facts, but I'm sure he's nodding in silent agreement and relief when he finally sees that...

...The Truth Is Out There.



This is really interesting... Especially considering GL-10 page mentions:
Quote
  • Kawai's Exclusive Millennium III Action – Featuring ABS-Carbon Technology with Carbon Fiber
  • Extended Length Keysticks – For more even response from the front to the back of each key
  • Concert-Length Key Buttons – Doubled length for maximum energy transfer and optimum power



If this is true then it speak well for the key length and key pivot of the keys in the NV10.

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703324
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I think Jokke may have been a bit *too* deadpan while writing this story wink


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Gombessa] #2703364
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I think Jokke may have been a bit *too* deadpan while writing this story wink


grin Yes maybe the chainsaw, gaffer tape and X-Files references should have been slightly more underlined, like in good (and safe) April Fool's articles, where they start really convincing and then degenerate.

I wasn't joking about Canadians though. I've been to "Tokyo" twice and the similarities to Québec are just too hard to miss.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703380
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Poe's Law I'm afraid.

You'd have thought that even the ES120 inside would have given it away, let alone the rest, or the sign off smile

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jokke] #2703390
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Originally Posted by jokke
Kawai is actually making the Novus NV10 "hybrids" from real GL-10 models, by sawing off the back portion of the grand piano, and gluing a third leg to keep it upright. [...]
I can't disclose my source, but let's just say he's from Korvatunturi and has been in the business of delivering musical instruments and all kinds of things even small children enjoy a LONG TIME.

And if you write to him at SF-99999 Korvatunturi, Finland (and you have been really good), you might get a delivery from him towards the end of the year.


Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013)
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703512
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Oh man...I got sucked right in, didn't I, Jokke's alias should have tipped me off. I won't be fooled again!

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2703515
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Originally Posted by jfl
Oh man...I got sucked right in, didn't I, Jokke's alias should have tipped me off. I won't be fooled again!


In other parts of the world 'Jokke' is a legitimate name. In Holland Joke is a given name. Jokke is probably from Norway.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703534
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
Originally Posted by jfl
Oh man...I got sucked right in, didn't I, Jokke's alias should have tipped me off. I won't be fooled again!


In other parts of the world 'Jokke' is a legitimate name. In Holland Joke is a given name. Jokke is probably from Norway.


Sure it's a real name, but he kind of made his bed with that post wink


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703672
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
Originally Posted by jfl
Oh man...I got sucked right in, didn't I, Jokke's alias should have tipped me off. I won't be fooled again!


In other parts of the world 'Jokke' is a legitimate name. In Holland Joke is a given name. Jokke is probably from Norway.


Good guess, but a Norwegian would not have inserted the thing about Korvatunturi, as they (mistakenly) believe he was born in fjords of Norway. Us Finns know the truth that Joulupukki lives in Korvatunturi, Finland.

Getting back to the topic, it would be interesting to know what challenges Kawai has faced with the NV10 production. Obviously if the road hadn't been rocky at all, we would have had it in Europe for some months already. On the good side, I visited a local Kawai dealer in Helsinki and they said they should be getting one, as there has been enough interest for it already. I think that's a good sign, and just hope that Kawai will be able to get me one by summer in case I want to buy it.

If Yamaha will announce N2X, the next question of course becomes, how quickly will that be available? N3X price point is too high for my taste (one can get C7X used for that price), but N2X *might* be more reasonable. Of course they could start at 13 999€. In that case the NV10 might be really superior alternative, unless I wait a few years for the N2X to fall down in price.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jokke] #2703692
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Originally Posted by jokke
Us Finns know the truth that Joulupukki lives in Korvatunturi, Finland.


And doesn't sneak inside through the chimney at night.

(No rumours about the Novus to share unfortunately...)

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jokke] #2703696
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Originally Posted by jokke

If Yamaha will announce N2X, the next question of course becomes, how quickly will that be available? N3X price point is too high for my taste (one can get C7X used for that price), but N2X *might* be more reasonable. Of course they could start at 13 999€. In that case the NV10 might be really superior alternative, unless I wait a few years for the N2X to fall down in price.


I don't remember if I posted about this before, but I'm facing the same "timing conundrum."

1. The N2 is currently selling in the US for ~$8500USD, and I think the N1 for $6500. This is a pretty steep sale discount from Yamaha.
2. The N2x and N1X are likely going to be announced at the end of the month.
3. Once that happens, I suspect the supply of "cheap" new N1 and N2s will be dried up, and we won't see deep discounts on the new models for a while.
4. The NV10 is expected to hit showrooms later this month or early Feb. My money says it'll be closer to the latter, or even EOQ.
5. The NV10 will likely be priced closer to the N2X, especially as it's brand new and very low-volume.
6. There is virtually no liquid used market for htbrids. They pop up infrequently and at high prices that don't seem justified given the risk and lack of support/warranty.

So waiting to try the NV10 (a rational and prudent move for anyone thinking of dropping $$$ on a hybrid) likely means you lose the opportunity to grab an N1 or N2 on sale, meaning you'll be paying closer to full price for the brand new model of whatever you choose. Or you sit and wait and take your chances with the used market.

And none of this takes into account the possibility of the new hybrid prices creeping into quality acoustic grand pricing. For me, there's probably a point ~13000-15000 where the difference from $10000 isn't huge, but gets so close to the price of a quality grand I just couldn't convince myself to spend it on a hybrid...

I think this works out pretty well for Kawai/Yamaha, but it puts potential buyers in a bit of a hard spot smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703716
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I think Mr. Kawai should have worked for Mr. Yamaha a little while longer before deciding to leave and start his own company.

Preferably in the quality control division...


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703758
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I believe the NV10 will be priced around $13,000USD which is close to the N2/N2X. N1s I’ve seen new are still listed for $8000. I’m guessing most dealers would haggle down to $6500-$7000. I’ve got mine listed on Craigslist for $4000. It will be a great deal for someone.


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2703761
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
I think Mr. Kawai should have worked for Mr. Yamaha a little while longer before deciding to leave and start his own company.

Preferably in the quality control division...


I’ve never owned a Kawai digital piano but my RX-2 I had was very high quality. Are you implying Yamaha has better QC? If so, why? I don’t doubt Yamaha has extremely high quality products, I’ve owned many and still have my AvantGrand N1, which is very nice.


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703784
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The issue of hybrid vs grand price keeps coming up. I just don't see this is a major factor. I'm guessing most of us (certainly me) would pay the extra money for a decent used grand if it was just a matter of cost.

I know I've said this before, but for me and others I think, the advantage of hybrids is that you can have a very close approximation of an acoustic grand playing experience in a spinet form factor, without humidity and tuning concerns. (I'll leave it to N3 owners to comment on why they selected that model over an acoustic grand, though the N3 is certainly a smaller footprint than all but the tiniest baby grands and it has the same environmental/tuning advantages).

Just because you might be able to find some sort of used baby grand for not much more than than the expected price of an NV10/N2X, doesn't enter into the decision. You'd buy the acoustic if you have the right place to put it. Some of us just can't have an acoustic grand in our living space. I had to pass up a free 1925 Steinway M last year due to not having space or proper environment for it. Would have cost me ~$20 for a rebuild, so not too much more than a hybrid. But wouldn't work in my house so I'm going for the best upright hybrid available in 2018. New N2s are available in my area for $8K, but that's a 2009 model and no longer the best available (I've found you remember what you don't like about something more than what you paid for it). Question is, will it be the N2X or the NV10?

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2703791
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
I think Mr. Kawai should have worked for Mr. Yamaha a little while longer before deciding to leave and start his own company.

Preferably in the quality control division...


Pologuy, I don't quite see how your post is relevant to the NV10. However, you are correct in noting that Koichi Kawai, worked at Nippon Gakki (which would later become Yamaha Corporation) before establishing Kawai Musical Instrument Research Laboratory in 1927.

The following website has some nice background information for those interested in Kawai's history:

http://hamamatsu-daisuki.net/lan/en/greatmen/greatmen03.html

Kind regards,
James
x


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2703794
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
I believe the NV10 will be priced around $13,000USD

I certainly hope not - at this price, it will bomb for sure.

Originally Posted by jfl
I'll leave it to N3 owners to comment on why they selected that model over an acoustic grand, though the N3 is certainly a smaller footprint than all but the tiniest baby grands and it has the same environmental/tuning advantages.

I am not an N3 owner - but I can share my experience shopping for it. When we visited Yamaha dealer with family, my spouse was much more enthusiastic about getting N3 over N2/N1 - because it will look so much more better as a piece of furniture. She is the interior decorator of the house - so that matters a lot.

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: PianoZac] #2703811
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
I believe the NV10 will be priced around $13,000USD


There is "no way" the NV10 will be priced anywhere near that.

That would be almost twice what it is priced at in Japan ($7,895 USD).




Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703814
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I saw it advertised on a British website for £9,111. Do the roughly 1:1.35 £ to $ ratio and that comes out to be roughly $12,300USD. Why shouldn’t the NV10 be priced above the N1 considering it has an even nicer cabinet and speaker system, and if the N2 was $14,000+ and the N1 was $10,000? I would think it would be substantially more expensive than Kawai’s own CS11 which is $7,000+ .

https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/kawai-novus-nv10-hybrid-digital-piano.ir

Last edited by PianoZac; 01/10/18 10:30 PM.

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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703823
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I'll retract my earlier post. You've all convinced me that price is clearly the most important thing...but I'd certainly pay a bit more for this model:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...find-stunning-hoard-gold-inside-treasure

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2703833
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Originally Posted by jfl


Just because you might be able to find some sort of used baby grand for not much more than than the expected price of an NV10/N2X, doesn't enter into the decision.


While it probably shouldn't, it does matter to me, if anything to establish a psychological ceiling on what I consider worth the money. I won't argue that it isn't idiosyncratic thinking, but it's definitely on my mind.


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703921
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I just don't see any value to the price discussion. There are really only two fully digital hybrid lines to pick from: Avantgrand and Novus. That's it.

If you insist on an acoustic action above all, and you want one this year, then your choices are:

Buy an N2 (or possibly N1) at the current discounted prices and live with the deficiencies. For me, the artificial damper resonance and noise gate, and to a lesser degree the available sample set, are deal breakers. Plus buying a 7 year old model on the eve of a new release just to save a bit of cash doesn't sit well.

Wait for the NV10 and N2X to be widely available. Try each. Read and listen to reviews. Try each again. Make a decision based on

1) Overall playing experience (action and sound)
2) Sample sets, features, configurability
3) Assessment of build quality and manufacturer quality control and support (this one's difficult but important)
4) Appearance
5) Price

The order of selection criteria is mine. Others may put price as #1

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2703948
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Originally Posted by jfl
I just don't see any value to the price discussion. There are really only two fully digital hybrid lines to pick from: Avantgrand and Novus. That's it.

If you insist on an acoustic action above all, and you want one this year, then your choices are:

Buy an N2 (or possibly N1) at the current discounted prices and live with the deficiencies. For me, the artificial damper resonance and noise gate, and to a lesser degree the available sample set, are deal breakers. Plus buying a 7 year old model on the eve of a new release just to save a bit of cash doesn't sit well.

Wait for the NV10 and N2X to be widely available. Try each. Read and listen to reviews. Try each again. Make a decision based on

1) Overall playing experience (action and sound)
2) Sample sets, features, configurability
3) Assessment of build quality and manufacturer quality control and support (this one's difficult but important)
4) Appearance
5) Price

The order of selection criteria is mine. Others may put price as #1


First of all, many, many people are not lucky enough to be able to put price last on their list.

Second, many of the people commenting on here about the price - are taking into account all of your listed criteria

Many have just come to the conclusion (so far) that from what they know now the NV10 is not "worth", to them, what some are stating the list price might be.

Especially with the knowledge that the NV10 has a list price of $7,895 in the only place it is physically selling now - Japan.



Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703951
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The longer it takes for NV10 to be out in the market in sufficient quantity, the worse the price will be unfortunately. Pricing is all about what the market will bear and if Kawai is having challenge with manufacturing enough NV10s then they have no reason to price it aggressively to move it faster through the supply chain. The roll out so far has been so slow that I don't think there will be good pricing at the introduction.

All the more reason why I am thinking of getting a used grand acoustic now...

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703956
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I somewhat reluctantly have to sympathize with these views. It's rather easy to say "you have two choices, choose between them based on their merits and be done." But for many people the decision to purchase a hybrid is a bona fide big-ticket item, and simply can't be made in a vacuum. $15k can buy a very nice car. To say that other potential uses for the same money (including accepting the compromises associated with the superior sound and experience of an acoustic grand) don't come into the picture, is something I simply can't divorce from my own thinking.

Long story short, if I can get a hybrid I love for half the price of an acoustic grand ($8000), that's a lot easier to swallow than if it costs the same as a new acoustic. If I'm paying the same, I'll be thinking long and hard about whether that's the best use of my money, even if it's only hybrid choice out there.

Just my $0.02.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2703980
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I agree price is typically towards the top of the list for most. I happened to be fortunate in that I was able to buy an AvantGrand N1, and don’t discount others much more price sensitive.

As far as pricing goes, it makes perfect sense that the NV10 should be $12,000+ looking st the cabinet and speakers and considering it looks to be very similar to the N2. Don’t know why it’s so cheap in Japan as it is listed for sale for $12,300USD on the bonnersmusic.com website.


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703987
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(Rant alert)

Sorry, but the 'I could buy a decent auto for $15K' argument doesn't resonate with me. If you need a car, you should definitely be spending your hard earned cash on a car and not a piano.

I think we all know that if price is a major issue, the hybrids are not a good deal. They're definitely overpriced compared to the fine non-hybrid options from Kawai and Yamaha, which provide a workable keyboard for most pianists for a fraction of the cost of a hybrid.

The hybrids are for those of us who have convinced themselves that only a real action will do and are willing to pay the (over)price and put up with some deficiencies that are not in some of the lower priced non-hybrid models.

Once you've made that decision, as I have, the only remaining decision is: which one is the best?

If you have the space and the right environment for a grand piano, why on earth would you be even looking at hybrids, which at best is an approximation of the real thing. If you just want a MIDI controller for your large VST library, in addition to your acoustic grand, get a VPC1 and be done with it.

Can't wait for NAMM 2018 - wish I could be there.

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2703988
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The Japanese have a saying for people who pay twice as much as they do for the same thing - "愚かなアメリカ人"

And I agree - anyone who pays "$12,000+" for something Kawai thinks is worth $7,895 in Japan is a "愚かなアメリカ人"


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or Kawai Novus NV10, or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2703996
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
The Japanese have a saying for people who pay twice as much as they do for the same thing - "愚かなアメリカ人"


Do they have a saying for idiots sniping from the sidelines trolling on internet forums with phony dissatisfaction about a product they've neither seen nor played?


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Korg G1 Air |
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2703998
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Originally Posted by jfl
(Rant alert)

Sorry, but the 'I could buy a decent auto for $15K' argument doesn't resonate with me. If you need a car, you should definitely be spending your hard earned cash on a car and not a piano.

I think we all know that if price is a major issue, the hybrids are not a good deal. They're definitely overpriced compared to the fine non-hybrid options from Kawai and Yamaha, which provide a workable keyboard for most pianists for a fraction of the cost of a hybrid.

The hybrids are for those of us who have convinced themselves that only a real action will do and are willing to pay the (over)price and put up with some deficiencies that are not in some of the lower priced non-hybrid models.

Once you've made that decision, as I have, the only remaining decision is: which one is the best?

If you have the space and the right environment for a grand piano, why on earth would you be even looking at hybrids, which at best is an approximation of the real thing. If you just want a MIDI controller for your large VST library, in addition to your acoustic grand, get a VPC1 and be done with it.

Can't wait for NAMM 2018 - wish I could be there.





Quite a mild rant compared to some we've seen here wink

I certainly don't fault you for that perspective, I'll just say that I don't share it fully, and IMO that's OK. Dif'rent strokes, and in the end what I do doesn't impact you (or vice versa).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2704002
01/11/18 03:09 PM
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If you have the space and the right environment for a grand piano, why on earth would you be even looking at hybrids, which at best is an approximation of the real thing.

I'm a professional pianist, suffer from tinnitus and have neighbors on both sides.

A hybrid piano is the best of both worlds and is the best solution for my particular problems.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Pologuy] #2704003
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The worth or the value of a product is only the amount of money we can put in a product. I would surely not put 12000$ in a piano because I have not the amount of money and don’t want to borrow too much for a piano. Perhaps if I win the lottery, I would be able to put twice as much in a piano, an hybrid could worth 24000$ for me, and I would be happy to buy a NV10, a N3X or a Silent Grand which would cost me less than the value I am considering. I don’t think this would make me an 愚かなアメリカ人 . Just an economical actor which try to optimise the use of its money.

However, I would be a fool if I put such a money on something without comparing the different options.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 01/11/18 03:14 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2704020
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne


I'm a professional pianist, suffer from tinnitus and have neighbors on both sides.

A hybrid piano is the best of both worlds and is the best solution for my particular problems.


Dave- I consider the neighbor problem to be in the 'unsuitable environment for acoustic grand' category.

I don't have neighbors close by that would be bothered, but I often practice with headphones when my wife is doing something where my practicing would disturb her, and sometimes I just feel less inhibited being in the 'private sound world' headphones provide. For that reason, I'd keep my midi controller even if I had the space and environment (stable humidity and indirect sunlight) for a grand, though I'd definitely have a grand over a hybrid for my primary keyboard if I could accommodate one.

Interested in the other comment about tinnitus. I also have tinnitus. I'm careful about volume (now, unfortunately not in my youth) especially with headphones. How do you feel the (Avantgrand?) hybrid works better for you as far as hearing issues are concerned?

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2704023
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How do you feel the (Avantgrand?) hybrid works better for you as far as hearing issues are concerned?

Well, anything that is quieter works for me. I am also sensitive for loud noise of all flavors.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2704038
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As a piano tuner-tech and piano player I've found some of the after market systems that can turn
an acoustic piano into a midi controller fascinating.
I've installed the PianoDisc Silent System in my personal piano and use PianoTeq for my instrumentation.

As much as I love my Estonia L-190 by itself, I'm having a blast playing with the options in the PianoTeq studio.
Yes I know they are one of our advertisers, but this is my own opinion, they've never asked me to provide any personal endorsement.

Plus as others have mentioned about the advantage of playing through headphones, I can practice whenever I want without disturbing my partner (she loves to read, in the living room, five feet from my piano).

And finally, having other instrument sounds at my finger tips, while still having the acoustic action I'm used to has inspired me to compose some pieces I never would have come up with otherwise.

Full disclosure, I am now selling and installing these systems, and this is my web site http://ProRecord.info


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Piano World] #2704055
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Originally Posted by Piano World

Full disclosure, I am now selling and installing these systems, and this is my web site http://ProRecord.info


If I owned an acoustic grand, I would be very interested in this.The perfect piano for me would be an acoustic grand with a MIDI/silent option. (Fellow Mainer - midcoast region)

Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2704056
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Originally Posted by jfl
Originally Posted by Piano World

Full disclosure, I am now selling and installing these systems, and this is my web site http://ProRecord.info


If I owned an acoustic grand, I would be very interested in this.The perfect piano for me would be an acoustic grand with a MIDI/silent option. (Fellow Mainer - midcoast region)


I would be more demanding of a *perfect* piano... something like a Disklavier / CEUS, which would play some pieces of music gathered from the Internet (or from my own record, but I don’t play so well).


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: jfl] #2704140
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Originally Posted by jfl
If I owned an acoustic grand, I would be very interested in this.The perfect piano for me would be an acoustic grand with a MIDI/silent option. (Fellow Mainer - midcoast region)

I am planning to own an acoustic grand in very near future - and I decided against getting such a system, based on talks with installers of such systems and the following feedback in Piano Forum..

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...iano-and-impact-to-acti.html#Post2698772
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...system-in-a-grand-piano.html#Post2696456

The main reason is that installation of such systems impact the action negatively (even in the non-silent regular mode). Some sources claim that these after-market systems impact the action only in silent mode but not in the regular mode - but local installer disagrees.

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2704172
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Aside from this problem with action, the price/quality ratio of most silent systems (the one advertised above is a clear example) is very bad. You'd better having a nice digital for such silent practice, if possible, or go for a japanese piano whith it's own silent system already installed. There are no more than two brands so you can't be fooled.
If you have room for a digital there's no sense in spending +- 2000€ in a midi system with a bad sound engine over a 20k€ grand, whose keybed is quite noisy by the way.

Last edited by mabraman; 01/12/18 05:23 AM.

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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Osho] #2704217
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Or if your factor of "disposable income" has increased so considerably, you may even consider besides the Japanese brands a Bösendorfer (which is owned by Yamaha, hence has its system) or a Bechstein (which has its own system): they have silent versions of their respective six-and-half footers. I have no experience with either of them though.

Last edited by winnyec; 01/12/18 10:57 AM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: winnyec] #2704280
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Originally Posted by winnyec
Or if your factor of "disposable income" has increased so considerably, you may even consider besides the Japanese brands a Bösendorfer (which is owned by Yamaha, hence has its system) or a Bechstein (which has its own system): they have silent versions of their respective six-and-half footers. I have no experience with either of them though.


Even if one were to purchase these, the built-in sounds in these system leave a lot to be desired. So, I will be putting a laptop on top of a grand piano to run VSTs all the time. This will be a hassle for me and looks 'ugly' to my significant other. With the additional laptop + silent system cost, I could just purchase a very high-end DP.

Also, in used acoustic grand market, there is hardly any inventory with factory silent systems - one will severely limit one's choices if looking for a used grand like that.

So, all in all, I decided to save the money on the silent system + laptop - and wait for NV10/N2X.

Osho


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Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Osho] #2704299
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I was referring to mabraman's post, and his suggestion to buy a new piano with silent option, where he was specific about Japanese pianos: all I meant to say was that you can now find them in high-end European grands too… and there are those who really like the Bechstein Digital's sound.

But I did not mean it very seriously, hence the conditional clause to the sentence: I believe they have astronomical prices. (And indeed if you do not like their inherent digital sounds, their system coming from the factory does not help much with the laptop concerns.)

Last edited by winnyec; 01/12/18 02:56 PM.
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: Dave Horne] #2704391
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I just meant that those two japanese brands provide the best silent systems so far.
On Bechstein, people speak well about VST. Is this the sound engine in their silent? If it's just a Vario...no way.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai NV10 ... interesting conversation [Re: mabraman] #2704408
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As a matter of fact, you are right. For some reason I was in the false belief that there was only one Bechstein thingie, but indeed they are probably two different systems. Which I cannot quite get by the way: a PC with only dedicated components to run their VST would be quite a number of magnitudes cheaper than the piano they are selling.

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