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#2697649 - Yesterday at 02:11 PM Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 8
DavidDorset Offline
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DavidDorset  Offline
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Just wondered if anyone else has any opinions or information regarding the touch weight on digital pianos, or specifically relating to the Kawai CS8 with the Grand Feel 2 action which I have.

I'm finding the touch very heavy, especially compared to my old grand which has a light touch, around 50 grams in the middle of piano (with sustain pedal held down). If I remember correctly I weighed the touch on the Kawai a couple of months ago and it was around the low 70 grams. This weight seems high, but not sure if it's directly comparable with an acoustic due to the fact you can change the setting.

Changing the settings i believe change the sensitivity but the actual weight of pressing the keys are still the same. 70+ grams seems too Heavy? I have it sermon light at the moment.

I suppose I'm a relative beginner, but I have trouble at times playing which parts of pieces like I do on my grand due to the key weight on the Kawai. I'm seriously considering taking a trip to try some Rolands and a potential part exchange.

Any thoughts appreciated.

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#2697653 - Yesterday at 02:34 PM Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: DavidDorset]  
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Tyr Offline
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Tyr  Offline
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Germany
Sensitivity does nothing in regards of how much force is needed to push down the key. I've checked the middle C of my piano (also GFII) and it was 52 grams. If you push the sustain pedal or not doesn't matter at all. Maybe it's an hardware issue.


Current: Kawai CA-98B
My History: Yamaha CLP-545 | Yamaha YDP-163 | Yamaha P-115B | Thomann DP-26 | Yamaha EZ 220
#2697690 - Yesterday at 04:28 PM Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: Tyr]  
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyr
I've checked the middle C of my piano (also GFII) and it was 52 grams.


I've just referred back to my notes, and found the same:

GF1: C4 is 52g
GF2: C4 is also 52g (most of the static weights were the same between GF1 and GF2)
Bosendorfer (sustain down): C4 is 53g


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11
#2697721 - Yesterday at 06:12 PM Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: DavidDorset]  
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DavidDorset Offline
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Thanks for the replies. I only use the Kawai three weekends a month, unfortunately won't be able to test it until after Christmas now. However I did get the chance to make a couple of quick videos before I left my parents this evening.

They are both similar, I test the weight of middle c using old pound coins (9.5 grams), and 20p coins (5 grams). I know it's a crude test and not sure if I'm testing fairly? Maybe I shouldn't add weight after I see movement.

If anyone kind enough to watch and give an opinion I would be grateful. The bashing is me knocking the underside if the keyboard with the palm of my hand quite hard.

The weight needed doesn't seem as high as I remember, but does feel heavy to play. I used the piano everyday day for approx 1 to 1.5 hours for give months, but only use at weekends for last two months. Maybe I need to play it more?

Any thoughts appreciated.


This video shows 6x 9.5 grams, and then I add 5 grams at a time.

https://youtu.be/ZE31vOR5A9E

This video I start with 5x 9.5 and add the 5 gram coins

https://youtu.be/_AhVwwQVDBQ

Last edited by DavidDorset; Yesterday at 06:17 PM.
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#2697741 - Yesterday at 07:11 PM Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: DavidDorset]  
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Kawai James Online content
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello David,

Originally Posted by DavidDorset
The bashing is me knocking the underside if the keyboard with the palm of my hand quite hard.


May I ask what is the purpose of this knocking? Is this a common procedure when attempting to measure the static weight of a piano keyboard action?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2697784 - 6 hours ago Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: Kawai James]  
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DavidDorset Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello David,

Originally Posted by DavidDorset
The bashing is me knocking the underside if the keyboard with the palm of my hand quite hard.


May I ask what is the purpose of this knocking? Is this a common procedure when attempting to measure the static weight of a piano keyboard action?

Kind regards,
James
x


Hi James, there isn't much information on the net regarding testing the touch weight. I recall seeing a video somewhere from a reputable shop in the UK where they were tapping underside of piano like that. I'm not claiming that is the best way to check it?

#2697786 - 6 hours ago Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: DavidDorset]  
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Kawai James Online content
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you for your reply David.

I'll admit, this is not something that I have seen in the past, but it might well be common among acoustic piano technicians.

Even so, I wonder if it knocking the underside of the keyboard has any affect on a digital piano?
I assume you don't play the piano like this normally...?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2697810 - 3 hours ago Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: Kawai James]  
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DavidDorset Offline
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Hi James, no I'm not sure it would have any effect on a digital. I was just trying to get a small amount of momentum in keys to do a fair test.

Regarding my playing, it's in the conventional way as on fingers in keys lol.

Do you have any insight into whether the touch weight on my piano looks normal?

Thanks

Last edited by DavidDorset; 2 hours ago.
#2697816 - 3 hours ago Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: DavidDorset]  
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Kawai James Online content
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted by DavidDorset
Do you have any insight into whether the touch weight on my piano looks normal?


No, I'm afraid not.

However, if you have any concerns regarding the CS8, my recommendation would be to raise them with your dealer.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2697834 - 1 hour ago Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: DavidDorset]  
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cocoherz Online content
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I don't know if this is normal, but i think, that you can not juge the action of a digital piano only to put weight on it.
I know for exemple, that the keys from the Yamaha 675 will go down between 80 and 100g ( about 90 in the middle) , and the action is not too heavy to play.
Perhaps are other users here with a kawai GF II action who can trie it out to compare to yours wink

#2697840 - 55 minutes ago Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: DavidDorset]  
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EssBrace Online content
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David,

You are using the wrong method to measure down weight.

It should be borne in mind that the down weight measurement is observed when downward movement commences, not when it's reached the bottom. Downward movement commences approximately 52g (middle C) on my CS11.

#2697842 - 26 minutes ago Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: EssBrace]  
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cocoherz Online content
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Yes that would i also say, so i have measured as well.

#2697843 - 12 minutes ago Re: Touch feels too heavy Kawai CS8 [Re: Kawai James]  
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Bambers Online blank
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I don't have any handy shrapnel to test this at the moment but I recall my cs8 was similar to the others in this thread, static weight of ~53g in the middle.

Note that this will make the key depress but may not go all the way through the let off simulation.

Once the key is depressed, how much weight do you need to remove to get it to rise again? (Without tapping)

This difference (which is due to fiction) is typically around 20g. If yours is much higher then it suggests that there's too much friction, possibly from the felt bushings. That it moves a bit when you whack it would point to this also. Did someone lob a cup of water into it?

Regardless, as KJ suggests, might be worth a talk to the dealer.

In terms of general weight. Grand feel 2 is pretty standard for static touchweight but has a fair bit of mass so the inertia is similar to an acoustic, most digital actions generally have a lower inertia including the Rolands so will be less tiring to play. You notice the inertia more during loud playing.


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