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A pitch 435. Is it right so? #2696698
12/13/17 12:26 PM
12/13/17 12:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,564
KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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Maximillyan  Offline OP
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KZ, Uralsk
Very often in my practice technician there are risks not to tuning the piano immediately in a standart pitch 440. Is it permissible to make the 435 Hz pitch as a preliminary pitch and then make it's 440 after any time went? Of course, I mean the fact that the piano is more than 50 years old. It was served rarely and a client has agrees to 435. In addition, it can be very low-budget service. When a client have not a money. In the clips of Max his gonarar is about $ 20.
Max is wondering whether it is possible that in the United States and the European Union.




Last edited by Maximillyan; 12/13/17 12:31 PM.
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Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2696776
12/13/17 05:15 PM
12/13/17 05:15 PM
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michaelopolis Offline
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Yes, I have a few customers who asked me not to raise the pitch to A440 if there was a risk of breaking strings. This usually happens on old neglected pianos 50 years plus older.

Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2696787
12/13/17 05:47 PM
12/13/17 05:47 PM
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huaidongxi Online content
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our 120 year old upright is tuned to 436 at my request. not to avoid breaking strings, which were about thirty years old and lightly used at purchase, but the piano has a huge, bold sound that is quite content at the slightly lower pitch.

Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2696818
12/13/17 07:49 PM
12/13/17 07:49 PM
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Hong Kong
Weiyan Offline
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Enjoy the music. The little "guitar" is pretty. Sorry, forgot your question.


Working on:\

J.S.Bach Prelude in C Min: No. 2 from Six Preludes fur Anfanger auf dem
Am Abend No. 2 from Stimmungsbilder, Op. 88
60s Swing No. 1 from Swinging Rhythms
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com
Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: michaelopolis] #2696837
12/13/17 10:23 PM
12/13/17 10:23 PM
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KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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Maximillyan  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by michaelopolis
Yes, I have a few customers who asked me not to raise the pitch to A440 if there was a risk of breaking strings. This usually happens on old neglected pianos 50 years plus older.

thanks, yes it's so

Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: huaidongxi] #2696839
12/13/17 10:35 PM
12/13/17 10:35 PM
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KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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Maximillyan  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by huaidongxi
our 120 year old upright is tuned to 436 at my request. not to avoid breaking strings, which were about thirty years old and lightly used at purchase, but the piano has a huge, bold sound that is quite content at the slightly lower pitch.

thanks, huaidongxi
ours 55+ year old upright pianos has problems with pitch 440 and pianos "don't cry" when we gave its 435

Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Weiyan] #2696840
12/13/17 10:37 PM
12/13/17 10:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,564
KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Weiyan
Enjoy the music. The little "guitar" is pretty. Sorry, forgot your question.

It's "russian guitar"
The domra (Russian: домра) is a long-necked Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian folk string instrument of the lute family with a round body and three or four metal strings.
In 1896, a student of Vasily Vasilievich Andreyev found a broken instrument in a stable in rural Russia. It was thought that this instrument may have been an example of a domra, although no illustrations or examples of the traditional domra were known to exist in Russian chronicles (the traditional domra was only known through numerous mentions in folklore, though examples of a related Turkic instrument, the dombra, existed). A three-stringed version of this instrument was later redesigned in 1896, patented, and introduced into the orchestra of Russian folk instruments.[1]
The three-stringed domra uses a tuning in 4ths.
Later, a four-stringed version was developed employing a violin tuning by Moscow instrument maker, Liubimov, in 1905.
In recent times, scholars have come to the conclusion that the term "domra" actually described a percussive instrument popular in Russia, and that the discovered instrument was either a variant of the balalaika or a mandolin.
Today, it is the three-stringed domra that is used almost exclusively in Russia. It is played with a plectrum, and is often used to play the lead melody in Russian balalaika ensembles.

Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2696926
12/14/17 10:46 AM
12/14/17 10:46 AM
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Scotland
Beemer Offline
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I believe that 435Hz was once a common A4 frequency. My church Walther pipe organ made in 1890 was and still is tuned to 435Hz

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Beemer] #2696956
12/14/17 12:21 PM
12/14/17 12:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,564
KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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Maximillyan  Offline OP
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KZ, Uralsk
Originally Posted by Beemer
I believe that 435Hz was once a common A4 frequency. My church Walther pipe organ made in 1890 was and still is tuned to 435Hz

Ian

thanks, Ian
I recently read that all the classical Russian music of the second half of the 19th century was written in 435-36. It was really a common practice that years. The author of the article, a certain Ivanov, writes that this was primarily due to the design features of the grand piano iron plate of which was designed for this power load. Accordingly and the timbre of these pianos, I dare to assume slightly different from the modern sound of a concert grand piano. By the way, the pianos were tuned using a 4-faceted socket T-bar lever (as in the video of Maximillyan). The pegs were very tightly hammering pressed in a pinblock and that pin could not be adjusted using a modern tuning hammer.
If we have available 435Hz on a modern piano or grand piano or a upright piano you can feel the original sound of the works of Tchaikovsky and Scriabin, i'm think.

Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2697066
12/14/17 09:45 PM
12/14/17 09:45 PM
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David-G Offline
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From Wikipedia: "the French government passed a law on February 16, 1859, which set the A above middle C at 435 Hz.[3] This was the first attempt to standardize pitch on such a scale, and was known as the diapason normal. It became quite a popular pitch standard outside France as well, and has also been known at various times as French pitch, continental pitch or international pitch."

My Bluthner grand of 1881 has the words "Tiefe Stimmung" inscribed on the frame. This means "Low tuning". I have enquired on this forum what this means, and the consensus of opinion seems to be that it means that the piano should be tuned to A435.

Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: David-G] #2697154
12/15/17 08:52 AM
12/15/17 08:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,564
KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by David-G
From Wikipedia: "the French government passed a law on February 16, 1859, which set the A above middle C at 435 Hz.[3] This was the first attempt to standardize pitch on such a scale, and was known as the diapason normal. It became quite a popular pitch standard outside France as well, and has also been known at various times as French pitch, continental pitch or international pitch."

thanks, David
Quite strange. We use 440 as the standard of fascist Germany now, adopted by Dr. Goebbels. All the acts of fascist Germany were condemned at the Nuremberg trial. While today it would be more logical and true to return to the law adopted in Paris in 1859, where A = 435. Or have I missed something and bad understood?

Last edited by Maximillyan; 12/15/17 08:54 AM.
Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2697353
12/16/17 09:33 AM
12/16/17 09:33 AM
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Conway, AR USA
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...also, before any pitch raise on an older piano, the bridges should be checked for hairline splits, also, the harp for the same. If cracks or splits are seen it is best to tune the instrument at the pitch it is currently as little cracks under increased tension can become larger, and accordingly expensive to repair or replace. On the performance side, A435 is sometimes requested for baroque performance.

Last edited by bkw58; 12/16/17 09:45 AM.

Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
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Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: bkw58] #2697384
12/16/17 12:02 PM
12/16/17 12:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
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KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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Maximillyan  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by bkw58
...also, before any pitch raise on an older piano, the bridges should be checked for hairline splits, also, the harp for the same. If cracks or splits are seen it is best to tune the instrument at the pitch it is currently as little cracks under increased tension can become larger, and accordingly expensive to repair or replace. On the performance side, A435 is sometimes requested for baroque performance.


agree with your words, Bob
Always we must carefully to check ALL details and a cracks and ect. A risk is always when we tuning piano, especially it's old, I'm think. 435 can be first for their tuning and when we come back again there, we can upps it's pitch to 440
Max tryed make defectivly upright piano and started with from 435


lovers of baroque performance have theirs pleasiers even it's 425

Last edited by Maximillyan; 12/16/17 12:03 PM.
Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2702528
01/06/18 02:05 AM
01/06/18 02:05 AM
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KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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From Russia with LOVE

Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2702835
01/07/18 11:21 AM
01/07/18 11:21 AM
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u38cg Offline
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Originally Posted by Maximillyan

Quite strange. We use 440 as the standard of fascist Germany now, adopted by Dr. Goebbels. All the acts of fascist Germany were condemned at the Nuremberg trial. While today it would be more logical and true to return to the law adopted in Paris in 1859, where A = 435. Or have I missed something and bad understood?


Yes, you have.

A 440 was in fact first proposed in 1834, and at the time was roundly ignored. The first attempt to regulate pitch by fiat was the French diapason normale in 1859. Britain deflated the historic "old philharmonic" pitch of 452-3 in 1896 to 439, which became known as "new philharmonic" pitch[1].


During the 1930s, the growth of international radio broadcasting made standardisation more necessary, and in 1939 a conference of major broadcasters agreed on the 439 standard, but adjusted it up to 440 in order to make it easy to reproduce electronically. This was agreed by the British Standards Institute in the same year, and was made an ISO standard in 1955.

In short, nothing to do with the Nazis, who did more than enough evil for us to talk about without getting into mystical conspiracy theories.

[1] as an aside, this wasn't arbitrary: it was due to an error in finding the French pitch, which was wrongly thought to be defined at a low temperature; 439 was the equivalent warm air pitch. The intention was to match the French standard.


Ask me about bagpipes.
Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2702856
01/07/18 12:03 PM
01/07/18 12:03 PM
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For a more humerous approach to pitch standards then the Nazi's, check out
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UCAOkP2BatM on you tube. These guys, twinsetviolin are very funny.

Last edited by Sanfrancisco; 01/07/18 12:11 PM.
Re: A pitch 435. Is it right so? [Re: Maximillyan] #2712879
02/09/18 10:53 AM
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KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline OP
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Old uprigth piano & Mozart



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