Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
How It All Really Began
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
71 registered members (7uturu, anotherscott, accordeur, AnnInMiami, 21 invisible), 1,233 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 #2696303
12/12/17 01:33 AM
12/12/17 01:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Time-Keeper John Offline OP
Junior Member
Time-Keeper John  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
The title says it all. I'm currently using the Kawai EX-Pro (which is fantastic btw), but I would like to add another piano to my VST library. I'm considering either the Ivory II American Concert D or the Ravenscroft 275. Both sound fantastic, but I don't have enough money for both. Which do you guys prefer, and why? Thanks in advance!

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696476
12/12/17 03:24 PM
12/12/17 03:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
Z
Zadillo Offline
Junior Member
Zadillo  Offline
Junior Member
Z
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
I assume you already know this, but just in case, Ravenscroft 275 is currently on 30% off sale from VI Labs through December 31st.

And the TrueKeys bundle is on sale for 4 more hours (which includes an excellent American Steinway D too)

Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696517
12/12/17 05:31 PM
12/12/17 05:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,301
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,301
Sweden
I have neither of those, so I can't comment as to which I prefer, and hopefully someone who has both, will chime in. There are a few PW members who do.

Just going by technical specifications, I'd say the pros for Ravenscroft 275, are four microphone positions, as opposed to only one in the American Concert D, and smaller sample size in gigabytes, roughly 5GB, as opposed to a 46GB size of the Ivory II American. The latter can actually be counted as a con, and subsequently a pro for the Ivory II library, since a huge file size of a piano library is an indication it's deeply sampled.

Then there's this thing about iLok, and frankly, I'm not sure it's needed for the Ivory II American Concert D. In my opinion, information given about this by Synthogy, on one hand, and Best Service on the other, is misleading and unclear. On the Synthogy website, it says word by word, that an iLok key is optional with Ivory 2.5, the engine in which all their libraries run. Best Service says this:

Quote
With the Synthogy Ivory 2.5 or later Piano Engine you can use the PACE computer based activation or the traditional PACE iLok™ Key activation. Previous Piano Engine versions always need and [sic] iLok™ key.

However, further down their webpage, they say:

Quote
Product activation
This Instrument requires an iLok Key!
This USB protection device is not included in the box of this collection, it is a separate item you have to buy additionally. So you’ll have to order at least one iLok Key with your first purchase. It will be put inside the shopping basket automatically but can be deleted if not required. If you already own another iLok protection device you can use it for this instrument, too.

I've been meaning to contact Best Service about this, but since the Synthogy's products are not on my to buy list as it is, I've put it off. If someone here knows the truth in this matter, it could be helpful to know, since all Ivory II libraries, are on sale right now. The American goes for €125 on Best Service, which is cheaper than Ravenscroft 275, assuming the iLok key is unnecessary for the former.

Last edited by TheodorN; 12/12/17 05:39 PM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696528
12/12/17 06:21 PM
12/12/17 06:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 136
G
Grazilerimba Offline
Full Member
Grazilerimba  Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 136
From what I know, the Ivory II Pianos support machine authorization if you install the update 2.5. (they don't in previous versions) That means you can use your computer hard drive as an iLok authentication device. Same goes for the VI Labs pianos. So both pianos use the iLok ecosystem but they give you a choice: You can either use an iLok dongle or your computer hard drive. What's notable is that ACD allows for two activations at the same time while VI Labs allows for three.

As for the piano VSTs themselves, the ACD has no sustain resonance samples. But the Ravenscroft does (I think?). So the Ravenscroft will have more realistic sustain pedal sound, which IMHO is very lacking on the ACD. On the other hand, the ACD is very playable, I'd say much more so than the Ravenscroft. The Ivory II engine is solid.

Bottom line, both VSTs use iLok but allow you to avoid using a dongle, ACD is more playable, Ravenscroft sounds better. If I got any information wrong then please correct me.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696531
12/12/17 06:26 PM
12/12/17 06:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,446
Portugal
T
toddy Offline
3000 Post Club Member
toddy  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,446
Portugal
Originally Posted by TheodorN


Just going by technical specifications, I'd say the pros for Ravenscroft 275, are four microphone positions, as opposed to only one in the American Concert D, and smaller sample size in gigabytes, roughly 5GB, as opposed to a 46GB size of the Ivory II American. The latter can actually be counted as a con, and subsequently a pro for the Ivory II library, since a huge file size of a piano library is an indication it's deeply sampled.


Actually, the difference in terms of the total size of the two sample sets is not so great. The VI Ravenscroft, along with their other pianos was reissued using FLAC in 2014. The uncompressed size of Ravenscroft is 35 gigabytes.

As for ilok, I have an idea that you do have to use the ilok system to activate products that use the system, but you are no longer obliged to buy a physical key. I think you can opt to register with their online system only.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696533
12/12/17 06:30 PM
12/12/17 06:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,301
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,301
Sweden
Thanks toddy, actually I was just re-reading the 74% off VILabs thread, and was about to correct myself, but glad you beat me to it. cool

Grazilerimba, thanks for clearing up the iLok issue. This was also my understanding, and yes, I realize you have to use iLok system one way or another, with the key (costs money) or without it (no extra fee) but that last bit of information on the Best Service webpage, was confusing to me. Maybe they just forgot to take it out. Two installations are not a deal-breaker for me, if I were to get the ACD.

Last edited by TheodorN; 12/12/17 06:48 PM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696605
12/13/17 01:41 AM
12/13/17 01:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Time-Keeper John Offline OP
Junior Member
Time-Keeper John  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Hmmm. So what I'm hearing is that you guys think that the Ravenscroft sounds better in recording, but the Ivory II responds better live?

Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696640
12/13/17 07:21 AM
12/13/17 07:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 175
D
daz100 Offline
Full Member
daz100  Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 175
I've got both of these and I use both .All depends if I want a brighter sound I go for ravenscroft and for a mellowed sound it's the ivory .
The ravenscroft is more computer hungry especially if I layer 2 mic positions resulting in crackling .Both these pianos are on ssd drive .No problem with Ivorys American .If I was to choose 1 over the other the Ivory wins but I would miss my ravenscroft

Last edited by daz100; 12/13/17 07:26 AM.

Kawai VPC1,True keys American,Ivory Grand pianos, Pianoteq 6.0 and Ravenscroft
Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696675
12/13/17 10:56 AM
12/13/17 10:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 313
England
P
propianist Offline
Full Member
propianist  Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 313
England
I've got both.
The Ivory II American D Steinway is basically one stereo multi-sample set. That's it.
You can tweak it: brighter vs darker, harder vs softer, dry & clean or wet & resonant, shape the EQ, bias your touch curve, etc., etc., etc., but it's all basically just re-moulding the behaviour of the same recorded multi-samples from one stereo microphone characteristic.

The Ravenscroft has 4 different recorded multisamples, 4 different stereo mic perspectives, and 4 slightly different mic responses / acoustic path tonalities, 4 different fidelities of impulse transient capture, 4 different mic-to-instrument location distances, 4 different sonic soundscapes to play with or mix together. Besides also providing you the similar EQ and fine-tune adjustments anyway that you'd get from Ivory, once you've got your basic touch curve, overall EQ, brilliance, bass / treble ratio dialed in to your liking, which pretty much either never changes (for all piano VSTs you play) or is context dependent on the style of piano music you're trying to make, but is in all cases merely the broader brush-strokes, before the real subjective artistic piano-phile business of finding a piano timbre you're 95% satisfied with - which is a process of lengthy experiment and discovery with Ravenscroft and its 4 mic perspective mix sliders, whereas Ivory is a straight take-it-or-leave-it deal.
Neither will give you 100% satisfaction. Neither is amazingly perfect. Both are somewhat sonically flawed and frustrating, but the Ravenscroft software gives you more freedom to blend the ideal piano timbre of your personal preference. The Ivory is more of a factory preset someone else has presented you with, which if you don't like it straightaway, on the default settings, you probably still won't, even after an afternoon of fiddling around with the menu parameters.

Re: Ivory II American Concert D vs. Ravenscroft 275 [Re: Time-Keeper John] #2696678
12/13/17 11:05 AM
12/13/17 11:05 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 520
B
Beakybird Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beakybird  Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 520
Does anyone have trouble getting zero velocity with ACD? I can't do this with my FP-90, no matter how gingerly I press down, and the lightest note shows ppp on the interface's velocity curve, it sounds more pp to me.


Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.

Moderated by  Piano World 

New In Our Store!
New In Our Store!
A few of the many new items we've added to our online store.
(PianoSupplies.com is a division of Piano World)
wrap around sunglasses with music notes
Wrap around sun glasses with music notes


88 keys, 10 fingers, no problem
88 Keys, 10 Fingers, No Problem


Bass Clef Hat
Bass Clef Hat

Tons more music related products in our online store!
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Pathetique sonata and Chopin
by caters. 07/16/18 10:18 PM
Henle Edition Question
by reunegade. 07/16/18 05:04 PM
key harder to sound after spring replacement
by Andamento. 07/16/18 02:37 PM
Encouraging 6 Year Old Student
by StartwithBach. 07/16/18 02:36 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Steingraeber
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics186,453
Posts2,732,294
Members90,582
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1