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#2695555 - 12/09/17 09:51 AM Kawai VPC1 problem  
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klabautermann Online content
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Hello,

I am new to this forum, so hello to you all!

I think I have a problem with my new VPC1. There is this normal action noise, but on some keys from the middle to the lower register there is some kind of, lets say, "typewriter-noise" when I approximately play mezzopinano/mezzoforte or louder. I guess this is not normal, or is it? I would appreciate it if someone who owns a VCP1 would give me his or her opinion on it.

I am a little frustrated, because this is alredy my second VPC1. The first one delivered sent inconsistent midi values. It had to be exchangend. (But leaving the technical issues aside, it really is a great midi controller!)

Thank you for help!

Last edited by klabautermann; 12/09/17 09:55 AM.
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#2695584 - 12/09/17 11:57 AM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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I just re-checked with mine: The noise of the keys hitting the key-bed (and the hammer noise) is the same for all keys. It is a dark noise that sounds like it's coming from the inside (which it is of course). So no, there should not be any extra noises "sticking out".

#2695612 - 12/09/17 01:22 PM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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Another happy VPC1 owner here. No, there should not be any "typewriter-noise" in it. I suggest you contact your dealer.

Some early VPC1 have been delivered with a slight bend in the front rail (probably due to incompetent delivery) that might cause this noise. If so, this can easily be corrected by a technician.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
#2695628 - 12/09/17 02:35 PM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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Check out the front mask (below and in a front of keys).Look to see if any of the keys that make that noise are too close to it when you hit it. If this is the problem, then it is very easy to solve. Use your screwdriver tool, go below VPC and take it off (only that mask). Try without it. If no problem exist, then make a little bend on that mask to outside to make more room for keys not to touch it when you hit it.

Last edited by slobajudge; 12/09/17 02:40 PM.
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#2695631 - 12/09/17 02:41 PM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: slobajudge]  
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Check out the front mask (below and in a front of keys)


That's the "keyslip" FYI. There shouldn't be any contact with it but it's definitely a possibility, especially if the unit was dropped (common point of damage).

Klab, does the noise happen when they key bottoms out, or when you let it go?

There could be a number of different reasons. If you can post a video demonstrating the issue, that could help.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11
#2695632 - 12/09/17 02:46 PM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: Gombessa]  
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Check out the front mask (below and in a front of keys)


That's the "keyslip" FYI. There shouldn't be any contact with it but it's definitely a possibility, especially if the unit was dropped (common point of damage).

Klab, does the noise happen when they key bottoms out, or when you let it go?

There could be a number of different reasons. If you can post a video demonstrating the issue, that could help.

Sorry, English is not my native language, and thanks for correction. It is possible, I have similar problems with mine VPC and solve it that way.

#2695728 - Yesterday at 04:46 AM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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Good morning everyone,

thank you all so much for your very usefull replies. Yes, the sound happens when the key hits the bottom. I'am a little concerned about fiddling around the VPC1 and opening it up. I guess this would void the warrenty...I think I will contact my retailer about this. If I can't get it exchanged again I will try to fix it myself.

Thanks again for your advice. I thought that this keysound isn't normal, but just wanted to be sure. Have a nice sunday erveryone!

#2695746 - Yesterday at 06:05 AM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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Celestis
Originally Posted by klabautermann
I guess this would void the warrenty..

As with any device: touching the screws = warranty kaput.

So, if you are still within the 5y period, definitely contact your merchant and let KAWAI support staff handle the issue.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
#2695754 - Yesterday at 06:47 AM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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Yes, I am still in the warrenty period. Got it a week ago or so :-).

#2695766 - Yesterday at 09:15 AM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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This type of thing should be rare with new digital pianos, but with Kawai, unfortunately, it is not. I see many blemished VPC-1s on the internet.


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#2695770 - Yesterday at 09:44 AM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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yes, there really seems to be a problem with the production quality. if I wouldn't like the VPC1-action that much, I would switch to a different brand (since this is the second controller in a row that ist not ok).

#2695785 - Yesterday at 10:57 AM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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Yeah... while I know all about small sample size, behavioral issues that make unhappy people be more vocal etc, I do have an uneasy feeling in the back of my head considering the future purchase of a CN37, because the quality problems seem to be spread across all Kawai products.

Then again, we don't have much data on Roland or Yamaha. We don't know whether these brands have similar quotas.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
#2695790 - Yesterday at 11:23 AM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: Granyala]  
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Originally Posted by Granyala
Yeah... while I know all about small sample size, behavioral issues that make unhappy people be more vocal etc, I do have an uneasy feeling in the back of my head considering the future purchase of a CN37, because the quality problems seem to be spread across all Kawai products.

.


I had been thinking that it must have been almost a couple of weeks since we last heard about a Kawai problem.. Still haven't heard whether the loud keys problem has been sorted. Hope they had better luck than I had.


Roland LX7

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#2695934 - Yesterday at 09:57 PM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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Hello klabautermann, welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by klabautermann
I think I have a problem with my new VPC1.


If you have any concerns about your VPC1, my recommendation would be to contact your dealer for assistance.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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#2695937 - Yesterday at 10:01 PM Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello klabautermann, welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by klabautermann
I think I have a problem with my new VPC1.


If you have any concerns about your VPC1, my recommendation would be to contact your dealer for assistance.

Kind regards,
James
x



I never quite get coming to this forum for help on a new keyboard you just purchased.

It seems automatic to me to call the place where I purchased it.

Strange ....


Don

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#2695954 - 8 hours ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: dmd]  
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Originally Posted by dmd

I never quite get coming to this forum for help on a new keyboard you just purchased.

It seems automatic to me to call the place where I purchased it.

Strange ....



I don't find it strange at all. A purchase like this is not only a large investment in money, but also in time and personal effort. And oftentimes, purchasers are not already experts in the products they don't own and haven't experienced. So it's incalculably valuable for many people to have a forum such as PW where they can ask questions and seek advice from fellow enthusiasts and owners, who can be informed of things that are perfectly normal but that they didn't know (what is "normal" key down or key up noise, why the last octave is undamped, why certain key spacing is different, etc.), what is acceptable or within tolerance to knowledgeable purchasers, or what may be an actual issue with the product worth engaging the manufacturer for resolution, especially if it involves awkward attempts to describe a problem that may be imaginary, not believed, or tedious/troublesome to address.

While I agree that contacting the manufacturer should always be an available first option for a purchaser, I'm actually quite surprised at the idea that asking questions about potential problems with a new purchase in a piano forum is something unreasonable, ridiculous, or to be scoffed at.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11
#2695956 - 8 hours ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: Gombessa]  
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by dmd

I never quite get coming to this forum for help on a new keyboard you just purchased.

It seems automatic to me to call the place where I purchased it.

Strange ....



I don't find it strange at all. A purchase like this is not only a large investment in money, but also in time and personal effort. And oftentimes, purchasers are not already experts in the products they don't own and haven't experienced. So it's incalculably valuable for many people to have a forum such as PW where they can ask questions and seek advice from fellow enthusiasts and owners, who can be informed of things that are perfectly normal but that they didn't know (what is "normal" key down or key up noise, why the last octave is undamped, why certain key spacing is different, etc.), what is acceptable or within tolerance to knowledgeable purchasers, or what may be an actual issue with the product worth engaging the manufacturer for resolution, especially if it involves awkward attempts to describe a problem that may be imaginary, not believed, or tedious/troublesome to address.

While I agree that contacting the manufacturer should always be an available first option for a purchaser, I'm actually quite surprised at the idea that asking questions about potential problems with a new purchase in a piano forum is something unreasonable, ridiculous, or to be scoffed at.


Agreed - not strange at all to come to PW with questions. Often, the forum members know a lot more about the pianos than the seller! I am surprised how often the salespeople are clueless in piano dealer stores about digital pianos.

Osho

#2695983 - 4 hours ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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I would like to add that, in many areas, the seller may tell the customer that what he is experiencing is normal behavior, within the manufacturer specs etc. I encountered this in cars, displays, phones, etc. So being informed to what constitutes normal behavior and what is indeed a problem is important. And DPs, being something that you don't find in every household, require turning to the internet for answers. You can't ask your neighbor - hey, how much oil is your DP consuming? I'm not sure if mine works as it should.

#2695988 - 3 hours ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: dmd]  
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Originally Posted by dmd
I never quite get coming to this forum for help on a new keyboard you just purchased.

It seems automatic to me to call the place where I purchased it.

Strange ....



I agree completely.

In this case the thing is making noises on some keys. Of course it's not normal! A child could tell you that.

I think everyone should consider the consequences of their actions. If you search Google for Kawai problems you will find countless references from this forum along the lines of....

*My new Kawai just punched me in the face but it only does it on Tuesdays. Is this normal?

*The lights go dim when I play my new Kawai (but only on middle C). Was just wondering if other owners could tell me if this is normal?

*My new MP11 just told me to vote for the UK to leave the European Union. I'm new to DPs so just wanted to check whether this was normal?

*My new CA-97 has key spacings that are 10mm wide. But only on a few keys. Should I ask for a replacement?

*My new MP11SE sends me subliminal messages saying that it's wrong for Trump to acknowledge Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Should I send it back?

*Was just wondering if any other owners have had their CS11 give them oral pleasure. It happened to me last night whilst practising some Chopin Etudes. I thought I'd check with other forum members before contacting the dealer from whom I bought it yesterday (I hope this is indeed the intended behaviour of the instrument - so does my wife because she says it will save her the bother).

*My VPC1 makes typewriter noises but only on some keys. It also makes a bell sound when I do a downward gliss. Should I send it back?

Come on people...do you really want to undermine the reputation (and value) of your own investment by airing all this stuff on a public forum?! TALK TO THE DEALER FIRST. DO THAT FIRST.

#2695989 - 3 hours ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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dmd did not describe this as "strange". Please don't misrepresent his statement.

I find it curious, though, that people often have low expectations for a brand-new product. I might need to fix or maintain an old piano. But not a new one.

When I pay money for something new I expect it to look and function perfectly. Seeing to that is the responsibility of the manufacturer and retailer. If there is a warranty I expect the seller to make good on the warranty.

This thread is not about a user who hasn't figured out how to use the piano. It's about abnormal key noise. Something is wrong with his piano. And it seems unlikely that anyone here can fix it. It's also not necessary for anyone here (nor for the buyer) to fix it.

Yes, the original question posted here is natural enough. But the OP ought to engage the dealer for a solution.

#2695990 - 3 hours ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: MacMacMac]  
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, the original question posted here is natural enough. But the OP ought to engage the dealer for a solution.


First. That's the FIRST port of call. Always should be.

Whenever you read any report of a fault and included is some reference to it being "only on some keys" then the answer is staring everyone in the face. IT IS NOT NORMAL. IT IS FAULTY.

My word, this stuff presses my buttons...(but only some of them so I am clearly faulty)...

#2695999 - 2 hours ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: klabautermann]  
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A word of explanation: As I said, I already had the VPC1 exchanged once. Of course, when I recognized the keynoise I was pretty sure that this is not the way it is supposed to be. I posted here, because I wanted to reasure myself that I am not being overly pedantic before I contact my retailer...thats all.

Last edited by klabautermann; 2 hours ago.
#2696006 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Come on people...do you really want to undermine the reputation (and value) of your own investment by airing all this stuff on a public forum?! TALK TO THE DEALER FIRST. DO THAT FIRST.

In one word?
YES!

If a manufacturer delivers products that are unreliable, people have a right to know. Public knowledge of these issues may very well pressure the manufacturer to tep up it's quality control.

Last edited by Granyala; 1 hour ago.

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#2696009 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: Granyala]  
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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Come on people...do you really want to undermine the reputation (and value) of your own investment by airing all this stuff on a public forum?! TALK TO THE DEALER FIRST. DO THAT FIRST.

In one word?
YES!


Well that's insane. Like a kind of self-harming.

#2696011 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Well that's insane. Like a kind of self-harming.

Why?
When I buy a DP, I don't buy to resell in 2 years and buy the next one.
When I buy my CN37 (hopefully soon) I hope to use it for 10 years or even longer.
After such a time, resale is not much of an issue with Digitals.

I fully admit though, that all these reports of problems do influence me and make me wonder whether my shiny new CN37 will even last 1 year w/o the need to order a technician to my home to fix stuff..


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
#2696013 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: Granyala]  
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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Well that's insane. Like a kind of self-harming.

Why?
When I buy a DP, I don't buy to resell in 2 years and buy the next one.
When I buy my CN37 (hopefully soon) I hope to use it for 10 years or even longer.
After such a time, resale is not much of an issue with Digitals.

I fully admit though, that all these reports of problems do influence me and make me wonder whether my shiny new CN37 will even last 1 year w/o the need to order a technician to my home to fix stuff..


You might intend to keep a digital for ten years but I certainly do not. So resale matters to me. A lot.

Your concerns about the CN37 are a result of the completely disproportionate reporting of issues with Kawai pianos, fuelled by contributors to this forum. People should think before posting their concerns, especially when they haven't even referred matters to the seller first. SPEAK TO THE SELLER FIRST...what part of that do you disagree with? Or do you just enjoy fanning flames?

#2696015 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Come on people...do you really want to undermine the reputation (and value) of your own investment by airing all this stuff on a public forum?! TALK TO THE DEALER FIRST. DO THAT FIRST.

In one word?
YES!


Well that's insane. Like a kind of self-harming.


Why? A piano was bought and there is (or might be) a problem with it. Check with a community who are experienced with these products before bothering with the complaints and claims procedure. That's the most reasonable thing to do. How can that be in any way seen as 'self harm'? You are a man or woman trying to sort out a problem, not a piano, nor a piano company.

PS ok, I've just seen you're reply to a similar question above. It's certainly a point of view.

Last edited by toddy; 1 hour ago.

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#2696016 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
SPEAK TO THE SELLER FIRST...what part of that do you disagree with?

So, according to you, a customer should have 0 data on brand reliability?

Knowing whether a product is reliable is part of the decision making progress.
Sure, it would be great to have offical defect/RMA statistics according to guidelines set and enforced by the state, but that's never going to happen.
So all we have when assessing these things are reports from other buyers.
Naturally, that kind of data needs to be approached with caution.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
#2696017 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: toddy]  
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Come on people...do you really want to undermine the reputation (and value) of your own investment by airing all this stuff on a public forum?! TALK TO THE DEALER FIRST. DO THAT FIRST.

In one word?
YES!


Well that's insane. Like a kind of self-harming.


Why? A piano was bought and there is (or might be) a problem with it. Check with a community who are experienced with these products before bothering with the complaints and claims procedure. That's the most reasonable thing to do. How can that be in any way seen as 'self harm'? You are a man or woman trying to sort out a problem, not a piano, nor a piano company.


I've already explained why I think what I think. You're saying it is a reasonable thing (the most reasonable thing!) to buy a brand new product, find what you think is a problem and then, without speaking to the seller or manufacturer, put the details onto a public forum??!! Thereby undermining the reputation of the thing you have just sunk hundreds or thousands into? That's a mugs game right there. If problems are not addressed by seller and/or manufacturer then it might be perfectly understandable to air concerns on a public forum. But only then.

What part of my point don't you get?

#2696019 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai VPC1 problem [Re: Granyala]  
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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by EssBrace
SPEAK TO THE SELLER FIRST...what part of that do you disagree with?

So, according to you, a customer should have 0 data on brand reliability?


That's not what I said. Answer my question...why not speak to the seller first?

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by UnrightTooner. 12/11/17 04:47 AM
Problem with Kawai MP11SE
by Velluth. 12/11/17 02:10 AM
Undesired side effect of great VSTs
by Osho. 12/11/17 12:43 AM
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