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Yamaha Concert Grand #2695022
12/07/17 09:02 AM
12/07/17 09:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 48
B
Bagong Offline OP
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Hello:

I am looking at a Yamaha Concert Grand. It is from the FC series. Is this the same as the CFX? CF-3? I tried to google FC series but very little information come through. Any info that you can give? I am planning to hire an RPT to come and check it out but I want to get some background as my preference is heavily leaning toward Baldwin SD-10? Any general comparison between these two pianos?

Please note - I have minimum knowledge about piano aside from reading articles and I don't play. Buying this for my son. Any basic info is good to me.

Thanks.

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Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695038
12/07/17 09:42 AM
12/07/17 09:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 436
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GC13 Online content
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Could it be CF Series instead of FC?? FC appears to be an older series of Yamaha Pianos, and CF is the newer line. (Confusing, huh??) The plate on the piano will tell you. On a Yamaha the model is cast into the cast iron plate on the right (treble) side below the tuning pins just inside the lid above the keyboard. You can't miss it. It will say CFX or CFIII (not CF-3). If the piano is brand new, it's a CFX. If it's more than 5 years old or so, it's definitely a CFIII. The CFX was introduced in 2012 to replace the CFIII series pianos.

The price difference between a Yamaha CFX and a Baldwin SD-10 would be enormous -- $100,000+ I don't have much experience with Yamaha CFIII pianos, although I've played my share of Yamaha C5, C6, and C7's and they are generally beautiful instruments. As you probably know, the Baldwin SD-10 is out of production since they moved all of it to China about 10 years ago or so. A good SD-10 is definitely a world-class concert grand, when properly maintained. Baldwin did have quality issues over the years they produced the SD-10 tied back to their financial struggles. So they can be amazing instruments or need a lot of attention based on the year of production, but that's the case when buying any used piano. In my opinion, they can be purchased as an amazingly low price for a concert grand, already rebuilt and in excellent condition.

You need to hire an independent piano technician to go with you to inspect any piano be for you purchase it -- especially used.

Is the piano listed for sale on the internet? Share the link with us and maybe someone here will have some insights.

Last edited by GC13; 12/07/17 09:45 AM.
Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695068
12/07/17 11:43 AM
12/07/17 11:43 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,536
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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terminaldegree  Offline
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Georgia, USA
CF could be an extremely old piano that bears little resemblance to the current CFX.
The prior versions to the current CFX were the CF-IIIs and the CF-III. These would not be quite as old.
I found both of the prior pianos to have a different, perhaps more aggressive (at least they were set up that way on most that I played) compared with the CFX tonal profile. I believe the CF-III designs were closer to the Steinway D than the CFX, which was a "clean sheet" design. Hopefully someone who's worked around them more will see this and answer.



Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
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Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695077
12/07/17 12:14 PM
12/07/17 12:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 121
MADISON, MISSISSIPPI
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Piano Practice Offline
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MADISON, MISSISSIPPI
Do you have a serial # for it? Thanks


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Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695135
12/07/17 04:25 PM
12/07/17 04:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,550
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Online content
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PianoWorksATL  Online Content
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Atlanta, GA
I think the CFIII goes back as far as the mid 1970's. Before that, Yamaha's first "concert grand" was the CS at about 8'4" long. So all the 9' Yamaha's begin with CF, not FC. Please work with the seller to get more information. Photos are great. Yamaha casts the model into the plate, so that's not hard to discover.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
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Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695202
12/07/17 09:06 PM
12/07/17 09:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 48
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Bagong Offline OP
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Bagong  Offline OP
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Thank you for the replies.

The letter FC was cast in the frame. Unfortunately, I can no longer put the link. It was sold for $7,200. Not sure though that I will want it - if it is that old. I would rather get an SD-10.

Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695245
12/08/17 12:06 AM
12/08/17 12:06 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,814
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
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Carey  Offline
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I did a little research and found this on the Yamaha website.

"1950 Release of the FC, Yamaha’s first concert grand piano
A year after its released in 1950, Adolf Baller played the FC on a tour of Japan with world-famous violinist Yehudi Menuhin, and in 1953 German maestro Walter Gieseking played the FC in front of the Emperor of Japan at the Imperial Palace. Wilhelm Backhaus also played the FC when he came to Japan in 1954, in a performance that earned the FC recognition as a truly world-class piano.


1967 Release of the C Series grand pianos and the CF concert grand piano
Yamaha exhibited the CF concert grand piano at "Frankfurt Messe," a musical instruments trade fair held in Germany. The beautiful tone of the CF earned it acclaim from piano experts, and it was subsequently adopted for use by renowned piano maestros and at international piano competitions. In 1969, Sviatoslav Richter, one of the greatest pianists of the twentieth century, played the CF at the Menton Music Festival and at performances in Italy, and continued to use it thereafter."

And this on another site......

"Yamaha’s piano factories were completely destroyed during World War II. Only in 1947 was Yamaha able to recover and restore the production of pianos. Within a year Yamaha’s piano production reached pre-war levels and exporting began to different countries all over the world.
Yamaha produced its first hand crafted 9 foot concert grand piano, the Yamaha FC, in 1950. The Yamaha FC concert grand pianos were very well received by many musicians. They were played by Adolph Baller when he accompanied world famous violinist Yehudi Menuhin during their tour to Japan in 1951; by German maestro Walter Gieseking in front of the Emperor of Japan in 1953, and by Wilhelm Backhaus, known as “lion of the keyboard,” during his visit to Japan in 1954.
Success of the Yamaha FC concert pianos helped Yamaha to earn respect of many professional players. By 1965 Yamaha became a world leader in piano production. It also inspired Yamaha to continue with research about the ways to perfect the performance of their concert grand pianos. Yamaha integrated the research findings to improve the design of their pianos."

So it appears that the 9 foot FC actually did exist for several years. smile


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Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Carey] #2695344
12/08/17 12:38 PM
12/08/17 12:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,550
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Online content
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PianoWorksATL  Online Content
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,550
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by Carey
So it appears that the 9 foot FC actually did exist for several years. smile
Interesting. But probably not the Yamaha you would want to buy without someone making a big investment.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
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Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695408
12/08/17 05:34 PM
12/08/17 05:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 620
Wisconsin, USA
L
Lakeviewsteve Online content
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Lakeviewsteve  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 620
Wisconsin, USA
What does your son want? It is commendable you are doing this for your son.

Best wishes to you / Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 12/08/17 05:36 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695501
12/09/17 04:48 AM
12/09/17 04:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 48
B
Bagong Offline OP
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Bagong  Offline OP
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Posts: 48
Hello: Thank you all for the info.

My son and daughter have been learning piano for about 2 years, but they spend time practicing (~12 hr weekly). I don't want them to be concert pianists or anything like that, but I want them to develop love for music for both their mental and brain development. I purchased Steinway O and S (used) at good deals for them, but we found that while the S sounds like the O - the lower notes are somewhat lacking (expected). I want to give the best for them and thus we are searching for a concert grand for my son so that he can pass on his O to his younger sister. We are selling the S now so that we can make a room.

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/msg/d/beautiful-steinway-baby-grand/6417624911.html

We are not from a musical family but I understand how important music is - and thus we make it a commitment to learn and enjoy music.

We are driving 4 hr today to look at the other SD-10. I have heard longer piano (Steinway B) but not a concert grand yet, so today if we like what it sounds, we may continue with the search.

Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695513
12/09/17 06:55 AM
12/09/17 06:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 995
H
huaidongxi Online content
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 995
Bagong, thank you for sharing this about your family and pianos. in my experience with small steinway grands (not a music professional, so it's been a random sample of NY made instruments over a long period of time, and not any newer pianos), model S never impressed me, and the O or similar L models were markedly superior. since your kids are accustomed to, and probably prefer, the fatter american piano tone, which the Baldwins will have, and you are in new england, you should probably look at and try Mason & Hamlin pianos. the company has gone through some ownership and factory location changes, like Baldwin, but have not been made in as many different places as the Baldwins have -- the originals which survive in rebuilt incarnations are from Massachusetts, for the middle period under Aeolian american ownership they came from Rochester, NY (as did some other famous american brands originally from elsewhere like chickering, knabe), from the late 80s their manufacture returned to Massachusetts. many others who participate here can provide experience and insight on them, as others can do with Baldwins.

Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695758
12/10/17 08:52 AM
12/10/17 08:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 259
Maryland, USA
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Davdoc Offline
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 259
Maryland, USA
I would like to commend your dedication to your children's education providing them with the best.

I noticed, in your Craigslist post, that the two pianos are currently side-by-side. Therefore, I am assuming here that your son and daughter cannot practice at the same time. Of course, they can do duet with this setup.

Your mentioned that once you get another piano for your son, your daughter can use the O as her own instrument. I am in no position to comment on your usage scenario; I just wonder whether you daughter, at the current setup, can practice on the O anyway.

I think for the near future both instruments (S and O) should serve them well for the purpose of practice, so you can take time looking for the instrument that likely will be the staple/performance instrument of your household for a long time or even for generations. Many conservatories, despite having super-frequent maintenance, have beaten-to-death pianos in their practice rooms but that fact does not prevent those schools of training good pianists. Most practice room pianos are not big ones either.

You may also want to consider pianos smaller than a concert grand. While it's great to have the space for a concert grand (I would love to have that in our house), musically in a home environment a 6.5 footer to 7.5 footer is not necessarily a bad choice. Touch can be somewhat different between a well-regulated concert grand and a similarly regulated semi-concert grand, but it's not something a pianist cannot adjust to. Bass tonal quality is one thing you mentioned-it is true a concert grand has it better, everything else being equal. I personally don't care for it as much as my own tonal discerning ability decrease significantly below E1, and I don't find the difference is that much in between, say E1 and C2, comparing my A (6'2") and B (6'10") in my home, and only subtle difference going up to a concert grand while in showrooms. Things can be different in a concert hall.

By having options of a wider spectrum of sizes, you may be able to find a piano in excellent condition and musical ability, despite in a smaller package, then absolutely having to have a concert grand.

Last edited by Davdoc; 12/10/17 08:58 AM.

1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695799
12/10/17 12:55 PM
12/10/17 12:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,316
Seattle Area
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Markarian Offline
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Seattle Area
Bagong, far be it from me to dissuade you from going to a full 9 footer. heck, I wish my dad had invested in my music early on when I was still just plinking on a little Yamaha toy keyboard to teach myself. But I'm not sure if you've heard what even a 7 foot piano sounds like with concert voicing in a house, but I have to echo the advice above and add that it can be almost overwhelming. There's been casual talk of upgrading to a D someday and that's even more sound inside of a home. Take it from me and Davdoc that even a good 7 footer will knock your socks off in a residential setting. But if you can find a good SD-10 for a killer deal I'd pounce on that and never look back. As always, make sure you are working with a good independent technician whenever you're serious about considering a piano. It's an investment that will pay off for years!


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2695833
12/10/17 02:30 PM
12/10/17 02:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,020
Glendale, Ca.
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Dave Ferris Offline
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Glendale, Ca.
I had a Yamaha S6 in our living room for almost 10 years but before the studio space was built. The dimensions of the living room are 20' length, 13.5' width and 11' ceiling with all hardwood floor. The piano was HUGE sounding in there !

I can't imagine you being disappointed in a Steinway B or another high quality 7 footer .

Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2696091
12/11/17 12:42 PM
12/11/17 12:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,260
Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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Reseda, California
Originally Posted by Bagong
... I want to give the best for them and thus we are searching for a concert grand for my son so that he can pass on his O to his younger sister. ....


Rather than regarding each piano as belonging to one child or the other, it would be better for their development to have two quite different instruments, and have both of them get equal time on both pianos. That builds the ability to adapt to whatever pianos they encounter elsewhere. If they each only play on one piano, they'll find it far more difficult if they go to a teacher's location and have to use the teacher's piano. It can be quite a shock, it was for me early on.




-- J.S.

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Knabe Grand # 10927
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Re: Yamaha Concert Grand [Re: JohnSprung] #2696120
12/11/17 02:13 PM
12/11/17 02:13 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,378
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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BruceD  Offline
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Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by Bagong
... I want to give the best for them and thus we are searching for a concert grand for my son so that he can pass on his O to his younger sister. ....


Rather than regarding each piano as belonging to one child or the other, it would be better for their development to have two quite different instruments, and have both of them get equal time on both pianos. That builds the ability to adapt to whatever pianos they encounter elsewhere. If they each only play on one piano, they'll find it far more difficult if they go to a teacher's location and have to use the teacher's piano. It can be quite a shock, it was for me early on.



Sounds like a practical opportunity in the making.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190

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