Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
139 registered members (adurx, AZNpiano, anotherscott, Amedeus, augustm, AdrianR, 36 invisible), 1,431 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2694964 - 12/07/17 12:54 AM DP for my sister!  
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Randyman Offline
Full Member
Randyman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
I play portable keyboards (I have a Nord Stage 88 classic, Casio MZ-X500), and my sister asked me advice on buying a home keyboard. Not my area of experience.

What she wants is something she can take up piano on again and have something for her 9 (!) kids to play for sing alongs when they visit.

She went piano shopping and after trying various keyboards she liked the Yamaha YDP 143 the best. By contrast, she tried the Casio CGP 700 that I recommended, and preferred the Yamaha. She liked the keybed feel, the piano sound, its simplicity, and the look of this console unit. Altogether with bench and tax and delivery, it was around $1,070. YDP 143 at Sweetwater.com

So, her base line requirements:
- Has Yamaha piano sounds from that keyboard or something equivalent

- Has the Yamaha GHS (Graded Hammer Standard) keybed or equivalent

- Is under $1000 or thereabouts

I realize these are judgement calls when I say “equivalent”, but I know Yamaha is not the only ones making decent keybeds and piano sounds, and/or there may be older Yamaha keyboards that can be had used that are a step up.

My desire for her, which is secondary compared to the base line requirements:
- That it has more than 10 freaking sounds!!! It’d be sweet if the perfect keyboard had a good sounding representation of EPs and organs, and the other odd sounds that are thrown in. I explained to her that most pop and folk music uses a lot of EPs and organ, and it’s sweet to be able to layer strings behind the piano for example

- That instead of a console, which is admittedly very nice, that she consider a slab that has a stand, so that you still have a nice looking setup with 3 pedals, but can remove the keyboard to play it at a family party for example, or move it temporarily to another room in the house

- That it has a substantial set of speakers built in. She would have been ok with just the 6w x 2 of the YDP 143, but I know how wonderful it is to have powerful built-in speakers, so that’s definitely on my wish list for her

- If possible, having a mic and line input would be sweet. We grew up singing around the piano and her family is known for their singalongs.

- That it has some degree of auto accompaniment, which i find helpful cause of the rhythms you can play to.

I’ve encouraged her to buy used, which can get her a whole lot more piano for the money. She’ll probably NEVER buy another piano again, so i’ve been encouraging her to do the research and get the most for her money that she can.

And bottom line, she’s kind of traditional about all this- a pretty piece of furniture with OK speakers, just a handful of sounds and a simple interface would have been OK for her, but having seen the horizon, I want as much for her as her money can buy. Isn’t a large part of the price of a console for the nice wood/case?

I’ll be reporting back to her- I encouraged her to do this, but i asked her, and she’s never been on a forum before! Maybe she’ll read this post and begin to frequent this forum!

Thanks,
Randy

PS if you met my sister you’d love her, great big heart, always encouraging her kids to follow their passion. Now that most of them are out of the house she’ll start having time to follow her passion!

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#2694971 - 12/07/17 01:30 AM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
mcoll Offline
Full Member
mcoll  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
Europe
Cheaper slab with stand and triple pedal: Roland FP30 (better sound and keys than the Yamaha as far as I'm concerned)
Around the same price: Roland F140R - better keys and sound, a very large selection of sounds, it has auto-accompaniament which I miss and it's done quite nicely.
More expensive and with less sounds but better keys: Kawai CN27
Even more expensive, a lot of sound, even better keys: Roland HP504/601
Around the same price as the HP601, slab with lots of sounds and mic input: Roland FP90
A little more expensive, not that great small selection of sounds, but great keys: Kawai CA48

#2694992 - 12/07/17 05:22 AM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,603
MacMacMac Offline
5000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,603
North Carolina
Remark removed.


Last edited by casinitaly; 12/07/17 06:04 AM. Reason: Inappropriate
#2695050 - 12/07/17 09:46 AM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,030
Charles Cohen Online content
4000 Post Club Member
Charles Cohen  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,030
Richmond, BC, Canada
You're right:

. . . The cost of the console is a part of the cost of the piano.

And the pleasure of looking at a "nice piece of furniture" is part of the pleasure of owning the piano.

A suggestion, FWIW (I don't have a "family counselling" degree):

. . . Don't try to impose _your_ values on _her_ decision.

If she likes the YDP 143, there's nothing wrong with it. "Optimizing" -- finding something better, for less money, using your own criteria -- may not improve your relationship with her.

Having said that:

In the "used" market, a Yamaha P155 (slab, "GH" action nicer than "GHS") might be worth looking for. There might even be a used P255, within budget. If _she_ decides she wants more sounds, a Casio PX-350 or PX-360 has a full General MIDI 2 sound-set, and an action (IMHO) better than "GHS".

She can - if she wants to - drive a pair of powered monitor speakers, from the YDP 143 headphone jack. That's (usually) cheaper than buying a DP with adequate loudspeakers built-in.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2695103 - 12/07/17 12:32 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,339
anotherscott Online content
4000 Post Club Member
anotherscott  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,339
I would be hesitant to suggest buying used to friends/relatives who would otherwise be hesitant about doing that. You don't want the headache or feeling of responsibility that can come with someone having an unexpected repair expense due to your recommendation. A new Yamaha typically has a 3 year warranty.

#2695114 - 12/07/17 01:30 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Randyman Offline
Full Member
Randyman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Thanks for the replies so far, i’ll look into those models, I’ve always been curious about the FP Roland models, many people apparently enjoy them, and they do seem geared towards the home enthusiast.

Yes, a person that doesn’t know what they’re missing will typically not miss it and be perfectly content. And yes, a console is a thing of beauty, it imparts a sense of real ness that a slab doesn’t. Which is why i was hoping for suggestions as well on used consoles. I know with Craigslist you can find super good deals if you know what to look for, and i don’t, I’ve never given the console market a second look. My ideal find would be a console that originally sold for $1,500—$2000 and was now being sold for $1,000, with very few signs of wear, and had more of my criteria thrown in there.

Good point Scott about holding me responsible for failure of a used item. I’d be more concerned though with keyboards that cost under a grand new, many of them are very cheaply made, and I’m reasonably confident that anything that has a keybed with a GHS action or better indicates a keyboard that is very well made. It’s the boards with lousy keybeds that indicate to me corners were cut.

#2695116 - 12/07/17 01:37 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Randyman Offline
Full Member
Randyman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Does anyone know what piano sounds. Yamaha uses in the YDP 143? I know that users of the Yamaha CP4 talk about there being a piano included with it that is not in most of the Yamaha slabs and how its their preferred piano from Yamaha.

#2695120 - 12/07/17 01:49 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
mcoll Offline
Full Member
mcoll  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
Europe
Actually the price difference between slab and equivalent console isn't that high. It is unlikely she'll use a lot of the bells and whistles that come with a slab, but she'll definitely use the key cover that comes with a nice looking console. Other than advising her to also try Kawai CN27, Roland RP102, maybe HP504/601 (but these stray significantly further from the budget), there's not much sense in convincing her towards a different instrument.
If you know she'll use rhythms and a microphone and doesn't care about looks, stand etc, then you can present her with relevant options. Otherwise you're just directing her away from her criteria. The only thing that you can (and probably should) do to help with the choice is present her with interesting options in her budget that fit her criteria. As far as I'm concerned, the yamaha isn't a great instrument, the keys on the fp30/f140r/rp501/RP102 etc are superior and for a little more money even more so the ones on the CN27. So are the sounds. Maybe it would be of more help to get to look at things from this perspective smile

#2695194 - 12/07/17 07:51 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,030
Charles Cohen Online content
4000 Post Club Member
Charles Cohen  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,030
Richmond, BC, Canada
If "auto accompaniment" is on _her_ list of desiderata, the Casio PX-350/PX-360, and console equivalents PX-780 (I think), start looking good.

They're decent "arranger pianos" -- rhythms, auto-chording, auto-accompaniment patterns.

It depends on what she wants to do . . . .


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2695220 - 12/07/17 09:24 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Randyman Offline
Full Member
Randyman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
OP here.
Yeah, i have no overwhelming desire to steer her in a direction that makes more sense to me, so if she ended up getting the YDP 143 i’d be thrilled she finally got herself a piano!

However, quality is quality. If there are better keybeds, piano sounds, and built-in speakers, and can be had for under $1,000, new or used, then i’ve Influenced this purchase in a positive way.

The Casios are out of the running. She already tried a CPG 700, which i believe uses the same keybed as the px 360 / 780, etc., and preferred the Yamaha.

#2695259 - 12/08/17 12:44 AM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
mcoll Offline
Full Member
mcoll  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
Europe
Originally Posted by Randyman
OP here.

However, quality is quality. If there are better keybeds, piano sounds, and built-in speakers, and can be had for under $1,000, new or used, then i’ve Influenced this purchase in a positive way.



I definitely agree with that.
The mentioned Rolands have better keys and sounds as far as I am concerned and 2 of them fit the price criteria as well (fp30 and rp102), while the f140r is slightly over, but with some negociation/an offer could likely be had at 1000. You should convince her to give them a try.

#2695271 - 12/08/17 02:27 AM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Randyman Offline
Full Member
Randyman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
It’s finding dealers that are nearby. She’s in the high desert above Los Angeles, Hesperian/Victorville, so there’s a lot of travel involved! And, to be fair, doing business with the showrooms that you can try out keyboards in is only fair, so i suppose its finding one that has these Roland, Yamaha, hopefully Kawai keyboards that are also able to give her a good deal.

So much easier when you just know what you want, to the point of picking up an excellent shape used console model that originally cost twice what they’re asking for.

#2695348 - 12/08/17 12:10 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 284
clothearednincompo Offline
Full Member
clothearednincompo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 284
Finland
Yamaha Arius YDP-163 would be next step up from the YDP-143. It has the same sound, but a better keyboard, so it would be more "future proof".

(If the requirements rise, when the skills develop.)

Last edited by clothearednincompo; 12/08/17 02:07 PM.
#2695372 - 12/08/17 01:27 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 166
Jasper E. Offline
Full Member
Jasper E.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 166
The following pianos come to my mind that might worth to check -- also by her -- the new ones:
Kawai: CL-36, ES-110 (also in bundle), KDP-90, CN-14
Roland: FP-30 (also in bundle), F-140R or F-130R
Yamaha: the next step as mentioned: YDP-163 or CLP-525.

Used ones -- can be a bit more tricky -- it might worth to check also
Kawai CN27, CN37, CN25, CN35, CN34 or CN34
Roland RP501R or RP-401R
Yamaha CLP-535, CLP-625 etc.


Kawai KDP-90
#2695407 - 12/08/17 04:34 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
mcoll Offline
Full Member
mcoll  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
Europe
Actually suggesting some used models that would be worth keeping an eye out for is a good idea. (I'll add the F130R to that list and HP504, but it is otherwise very comprehensive).

Although, I would like to point out that the used market, at least in my part of the world isn't worth it when it comes to DPs. There may certainly be exceptions, but the majority of people either expect to get close to full price if the instrument only has a couple of years on board, or sell it for 1/2 - 2/3 of the price if it's almost an antiquity. And, to make a parallel with the phone market, you wouldn't want to pay half the price (let's say 300$) for an iPhone 3, not even for a 4.
While I'm generally inclined towards hunting for great deals on used products (be it phones, computer related, sporting gear, cars etc), I have to say I have yet to see one as far as digitals go. I've only seen bad products or grossly over-evaluated products. So I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Especially considering you should find it locally, to avoid shipping (I wouldn't be too eager to buy a piano that is shipped in improvised packaging).

#2695674 - 12/09/17 07:03 PM Re: DP for my sister! [Re: Randyman]  
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Randyman Offline
Full Member
Randyman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
So I looked most of the suggestion up on eBay, and didn’t have much luck, esp since she wouldn’t buy something without playing it first and return shipping would be pricey.

But I did find a Sam Ash store close to her that has a Kawai kpd 90 in stock, and with holiday sale discounts it could be had for $1053 with tax, about what she would pay for the YDP 143. It was compared directly from the guy at AZ piano news, and he like the sound quality and action better than the Yamaha.

So I guess this is as much as I can do for my sis, which would give her all of her must haves and several of my mine (15 voices vs 10, 26 Watts vs 13, and better quality sound and action at the same price).


Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Certificates from Top Conservatories
by S'il Vous Plait. 12/12/17 02:05 PM
Amplifying synth through piano speakers?
by Paalrammer. 12/12/17 01:20 PM
Looking for some information, please!
by Mark Davis. 12/12/17 12:42 PM
The fun of correcting unisons
by Beemer. 12/12/17 11:23 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,242
Posts2,678,735
Members89,267
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0