2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
51 members (anotherscott, Bluthendorfer, 36251, apianostudent, accordeur, AndrewJCW, bobrunyan, 14 invisible), 582 guests, and 577 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Affect of High Heat on Piano
#2694587 12/05/17 07:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 836
T
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 836
What are the opinions or experience with high heat to get rid of bed bugs in an apartment and the affect on a grand piano. The heat would be around 117 to 122 degrees. I'm recommending that the piano be removed during the process but I'd like to hear some other opinions.


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
That Guy #2694626 12/05/17 11:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,276
K
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,276
The piano might survive just fine ...
but I wouldn't recommend doing it.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
That Guy #2694709 12/06/17 08:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 836
T
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 836
Thanks for your input Keith! Interesting...I posted this also on the PTG forum and have gotten no responses. Oh well.


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
That Guy #2694718 12/06/17 09:24 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 864
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 864
As of this moment, there is a response on the PTG forum with an opinion about piano safety in this situation and a number of suggestions for how to proceed --


Dorrie Bell
retired piano technician
Boston, MA
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
That Guy #2694750 12/06/17 10:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
2000 Post Club Member
Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071
We have witnessed the results of rebuilding grand pianos after being expose to heat from a fire. In due course glue joints not addressed in the rebuilding commenced failing. Unknown was how long the instruments were exposed and the intensity of heat. While these few incidents do not supply enough information to draw hard conclusions about a piano being exposed to 120+ degrees for an hour or more, in the absence of studies concerning the long term effects of this level of prolonged temperature upon pianos - at the very least, lethal to humans - perhaps removal to a safe place might be the wise course.

Last edited by bkw58; 12/06/17 10:44 AM.

Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
bkw58 #2694771 12/06/17 11:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,276
K
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,276
Originally Posted by bkw58
We have witnessed the results of rebuilding grand pianos after being expose to heat from a fire. In due course glue joints not addressed in the rebuilding commenced failing. Unknown was how long the instruments were exposed and the intensity of heat. While these few incidents do not supply enough information to draw hard conclusions about a piano being exposed to 120+ degrees for an hour or more, in the absence of studies concerning the long term effects of this level of prolonged temperature upon pianos - at the very least, lethal to humans - perhaps removal to a safe place might be the wise course.


Let's come back down to earth here. 120ºF is not "lethal to humans". I've been in those temps at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. (Not minimizing the opportunity for death by dehydration or heat stroke but not intrinsically fatal)

For soundboard repair, it is not uncommon to dry the board (i.e. including the whole rim) out at those kinds of temperatures. My previous rebuilding shop was in a former grocery store. The meat cooler was well insulated and served well for drying piano soundboards for repair as well as for maintaining raw soundboard panels. We dried boards for days in order to reach minimum moisture content before shimming. In an hour, the piano would be starting to get warm. Fires are much hotter than 120ºF. I've seen phones on the wall melted into a Salvador Dali-esque shape. It gets really hot in a fire. The big thing that kills glue joints in a fire is not just the heat, but the steam that is generated when the fire is put out.

It would probably be fine to wrap the piano in several blankets or that aluminized bubble-wrap type insulation. Nonetheless, I still concur with others and my original statement that it would be safest to remove the piano. At least, any unwanted results would be at the owner's risk.



Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
That Guy #2694787 12/06/17 12:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
2000 Post Club Member
Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071
Thank you, Keith.

Your points are well-taken.

I shan't argue the point as to whether or not prolonged exposure to the temperature in question is fatal to humans. We can agree that without taking proper precautions it clearly can be. Everyone knows this. Listing points from a survival guide didn't seem germane.

I thought about steam heat vs dry heat. These are very different indeed. Also the various ways that a piano may be protected without removing it. Without controlled studies, much if this is really anecdotal, and as such we appear to agree that the safest course would be to remove the piano, lest the client suffer loss.

Have a great day.

Last edited by bkw58; 12/06/17 12:55 PM.

Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
That Guy #2694789 12/06/17 01:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,595
G
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,595
My shop can get up to 115 F in the summer and I have not experienced any structural failures but certainly I try to keep the relative humidity up as the wood will tend to dry out.
As a reference, when trying to determine wood moisture content, for a zero reference it takes about 24 hours at about 200 F to drive all of the moisture out of wood - Sitka Spruce anyway -


RPT
PTG Member
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
bkw58 #2694790 12/06/17 01:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,276
K
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,276
Originally Posted by bkw58
Thank you, Keith.

Your points are well-taken.

I shan't argue the point as to whether or not prolonged exposure to the temperature in question is fatal to humans. We can agree that without taking proper precautions it clearly can be. Everyone knows this. Listing points from a survival guide didn't seem germane.

I thought about steam heat vs dry heat. These are very different indeed. Also the various ways that a piano may be protected without removing it. Without controlled studies, much if this is really anecdotal, and as such we appear to agree that the safest course would be to remove the piano, lest the client suffer loss.

Have a great day.


Yup. Thanks for your comments-- on this topic and the many others you have done.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Affect of High Heat on Piano
That Guy #2694814 12/06/17 03:20 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,633
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,633
I know it's off-topic, but I experienced 122F in Saudi Arabia when I was working there in 2015.

I went for a walk, with a bottle of water of course, just to experience it. Extremely low humidity though, 12% or 13% all year, and a slight breeze. So you could perspire. But it's quite something!


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2021 Free Newsletter for piano lovers is here now...
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Most realistic Piano VST?
by Rickdiculous - 01/22/21 06:13 PM
An exemplary piano quiz
by Withindale - 01/22/21 05:57 PM
First DP -- PC Connectivity Question
by Mikex3 - 01/22/21 03:09 PM
CA99 vs LX706
by David Izquierdo - 01/22/21 02:50 PM
Test your love for the piano
by EB5AGV - 01/22/21 11:02 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,470
Posts3,050,290
Members100,180
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4