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Dear friends:

You will think that my senior mind is wandering for lack of something useful to accomplish, BUT . . .

The other day I was reading the autobiography of Dr. Francis Jackson, the retired Org & ChM of York Minster, who has reached the age of 100. He mentioned that his mentor, Sir Edward Bairstow, purchased a Schiedmayer concert grand for the minster, feeling that it was so good that he would save money, given its lower price, rather than acquiring a Steinway or other piano of the first rank.

Given that Chickering, Mason & Hamlin, S&S and Baldwin in the States and the three Bs in Europe constitute the finest vintage pianos, what other vintage pianos would you consider for rebuilding, assuming that it would be a large piano (7+ft.) ? In the best of all possible worlds -

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY
kw35@si.rr.com

Interesting question Karl.

The first names that come to my mind are Knabe and Weber. Then there are the Steinerts and Conover-Cables. Here in Chicago, Chickering Brothers, operated by a cousin of the Boston Chickering, did make some quality grands.

For most manufacturers, a piano 7 foot or longer would not be part of their regular catalog, so any piano in that size range is likely to have been better quality than the rest of their line.

So I evaluate pianos by the quality their construction as I see them, not by a particular make or model. There have been several makes which were better than average quality, like Everett, Hallet Davis, Hardman, Fischer, etc.

I have the action from an Ivers & Pond here at the moment, which is a very high quality upright. If it were up to me, I would prefer this piano rebuilt to most available new uprights, but the cost would be very high.

The other thing is that how much rebuilding is often dictated by the budget. It can be worth restringing and rebuilding the action on a decent quality piano which has a good finish. Soundboards rarely make enough of a difference that changing them out is worthwhile: if it will make that much of a difference, then chances are it is probably a better bet to start with a piano in better condition.

Grotrian-Steinweg springs to mind. Roberts pianos in the UK had an old 275 that I would buy if I had the space (don’t know if it’s still available). Also I vaguely remember Julie Andrews old piano was a Grotrian 275 (or Grotrian-Steinweg as they are in Europe) and was up for sale in the USA not so long ago. A very high quality piano, but very niche.

Karl, some Schiedmayer pianos are so similar to some Hamburg Steinway pianos from the same time, it's almost impossible to know who came up with some of the ideas first. There was a 6'1 85 note Schiedmeyer produced that was virtually identical to the 85-note Steinway A, I've seen a couple of them in person but they're too old for me to say whether they sound like Steinways or not. I know they rebuild very well.

Musically speaking other pianos which rebuild very well are Chappell and Broadwood. The Broadwood Barless from the Victorian period is of particularly high quality. Then there is Ibach - some models are beautiful. Welmar produced a 6'2 between roughly the 1930s and 1960s which can almost be mistaken for a Blüthner when properly restored.

Diarmud, I wouldn't say Grotrian are of the second rank, I'd put them in the highest quality but just not quite as expensive as a Steinway or Fazioli, but you're right, they are beautiful instruments.

Feurich pianos, the original German ones are absolutely beautiful. There's one in the university where I teach, it's a 7'6 from about 1988, it has been well played now, and needs some work (a good voicing, tuning and regulation to start with). It has a clear and sustaining tone, sort of like a Blüthner crossed with a Steinway (if that makes sense).

Many of the lesser-known German pianos make good candidates for rebuilding - Rönisch, Richard Lipp, Pfeiffer, Thürmer, Richard Lipp made some exceptional pianos, they made some absolutely glorious uprights which sound absolutely divine when restored but of course there is a very limited market for such instruments given the costs of restoration.

Bizarrely enough, another make with very good scale designs on their upright pianos is Challen, and I know of two or three that have been fully rebuilt (not requiring new soundboards though but everything else was rebuilt or replaced) and the pianos turn out beautifully. Again though, while the piano is musically very good, the cash value of a restored Challen would still only be around £500 to £1000 even if it had £5000 worth of work done to it, which is sad but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Whether or not the pianos I listed are better, when restored, than what you can buy new for the same money, is really for the customer to decide, but since this is a kind of fantasy league, I think it's fine to list them.

Stieff, a Baltimore-based company, had a reputation for building excellent pianos that offered a lot of bang for the buck. Some people called Stieff "The Poor Man's Steinway".

I agree 100% with Joe. Grotrian Steinweg are top notch pianos.

There was a line of Challen pianos made for WRCC schools. The cases were in light oak. Those were excellent pianos.

Grotrian Steinweg evolved directly from the two individuals in the 'steinway' dynasty family with the highest technical and design knowledge -- Heinrich Steinweg and his oldest son C.F. Theodor Steinweg, who didn't like life in NY, returned to Braunschweig where he eventually sold the company to his partner Grotrian, then established the Hamburg branch of steinway.

relative to the marketing clout of steinway and yamaha/boesendorfer, all of the older companies except bechstein (which had a huge marketing presence in England prior to the great war) bluethner, steingraeber und soehne, could be called 'second rank'.

Almaviva! Bravo sir. I totally agree. We have rebuilt a few Stieff grands over the years, most recently earlier this year. They have always turned out to be very nice pianos. The other Baltimore piano that has always been a true favorite of mine is Knabe. Beautiful instruments! In fact I usually prefer a fully rebuilt Knabe 5'8" over the same vintage Steinway M. Your opinion may vary.

Being a Philadelphian, of course I have to mention the great pianos that were made right here, particularly the original Schomacker, and the original Matchless Cunningham, designed by Patrick Cunningham himself. (Frank Emerson used elements of this original design in our new pianos).

Rich:

Speaking of Philadelphia pianos, what of the Blasius ? When I lived in Philadelphia, '68-'72, I often heard mention of this old-time maker.

Karl

Very true Karl. Unfortunately, I have played several of the Blasius... but they were not in a shape that I could really judge the piano. I do not remember rebuilding a Blasius in our place over the past 30 years, but we could have worked on one that I don't remember.

(I hate to admit that because I sometimes remember people by their pianos, but my memory is not what it once was).

Rich:

Thanks for your last. I asked because I knew a very fine pianist named John DeMaio, now deceased, who'd owned a quite large Blasius that he insisted had an impressive tone. But then again he was rather fond of Krakauer pianos which I thought was a bit eccentric.

Karl