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Yamaha NU1X defect #2692345
11/27/17 02:07 PM
11/27/17 02:07 PM
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Egorbopol Offline OP
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Hello everyone,

I bought a Yamaha nu1x over the weekend and had it delivered on Saturday. I have been playing it for the past two days and while it is functioning properly, I absolutely love it. Aesthetically, it is beautiful, the touch is fantastic, and the tone is really great (especially with headphones on).

However.... I've noticed something that I assumed was a factory defect, which after research I've realized happens to every one of these units, and is a known issue that Yamaha knows about and says is "your piano working normally".

While playing softly, or trilling, a note will be played at full volume, instead of as intended. When I am playing a piece softly, and one of these notes I play jumps out at full volume, it instantly ruins the experience for me, and I have to stop playing. It happened to me at least 4 times last night while playing.

Here is a video someone else posted of the exact problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASzEpsIJeb4

I'm hoping my piano store allows for returns, because this type of defect is something I cannot live with. I'm not sure how anyone with this keyboard can handle it to be honest.

It's a bummer, because when this issue isn't happening, I really do love this piano.

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Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692353
11/27/17 02:39 PM
11/27/17 02:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,554
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
From what you (and the video) have said this seems to be an inherent defect.
So, yes ... demand a return. I wouldn't tolerate this flaw.

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692359
11/27/17 03:20 PM
11/27/17 03:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 59
Gothenburg, Sweden
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johanibraaten Offline
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Gothenburg, Sweden
Hi Egorbopol.

I have tried 4 different NU1 and one NU1X and everyone of them had that problem. I was speaking to the main Yamaha dealer in Sweden about the problem and he said that the NU1(X) has to be calibrated once every now and then. There is suposed to be a calibration function built in to the instrument. Hopefully this will be enough because I agree with you that it is a lovely instrument to play when it works properly.

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: johanibraaten] #2692361
11/27/17 03:27 PM
11/27/17 03:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
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Egorbopol Offline OP
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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Hi Egorbopol.

I have tried 4 different NU1 and one NU1X and everyone of them had that problem. I was speaking to the main Yamaha dealer in Sweden about the problem and he said that the NU1(X) has to be calibrated once every now and then. There is suposed to be a calibration function built in to the instrument. Hopefully this will be enough because I agree with you that it is a lovely instrument to play when it works properly.


Hi Johanibraaten,

That's interesting to hear, thanks for the reply. I did not know about the calibration, however I would have assumed that it would have been calibrated properly day one? The issue started 30 minutes into playing straight out of the box. Maybe I will contact a technician about calibration. This issue has bummed me out enough where I'm probably going to drive to the piano store I bought it from today to ask about a full refund and return. I've read this doesn't happen on the N1, N2, N3.... maybe I just have to upgrade wink

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692364
11/27/17 03:44 PM
11/27/17 03:44 PM
Joined: May 2017
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karvala Offline
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I've seen this reported elsewhere as well; it's a definitely real problem with NU1X. Gotta love the Yamaha response, basically claiming that an obvious defect is "normal" and there isn't a problem with the instrument when there clearly is. Vote with your money, return the instrument for a full refund and make them give you a substantial discount if they want you to ever buy another after they've finally bothered to fix it, which I imagine they will have to in due course. It looks more like a scripting error than a hardware fault, although it's hard to be sure, so a future firmware update could possibly fix it. I wouldn't take the risk, though, and be left with something which is clearly defective.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: karvala] #2692374
11/27/17 04:44 PM
11/27/17 04:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 33
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Egorbopol Offline OP
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So I just got back from my piano store that I bought from this past weekend.

They will not give me a full refund... frown

I was pretty upset about this obviously.

They did however offer me an N1 upgrade for $7500. I pay the difference in what I already paid for the Nu1x.

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692384
11/27/17 05:11 PM
11/27/17 05:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 545
Germany
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Germany
I had an NU1 for three years. It was OK for practising with headphones and I learnt to live with the sudden loud note problem, but I wasn't sorry to see it go.

As far as I can tell, the problem comes from the fact the the sensors measure the speed of the key being pressed, not of the metal "hammers". If a hammer has not completely returned to its rest position in an upright action, the key offers less resistance, so that it moves faster for the same force of touch. In an acoustic upright, this will result in the hammer striking the string with less force, or even not striking the string at all. In the NU1 and NU1X, the increased speed of the key is registered as a fortissimo.

Calibrating (which I did several times) will not cure the problem. I got used to playing in a certain manner that limited the number of sudden loud notes, becoming very conscious of the way I released the key (which was an interesting experience) but I couldn't completely eliminate the sudden shocks.


Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013)
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692392
11/27/17 05:40 PM
11/27/17 05:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,638
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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CyberGene  Online Content
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Sofia, Bulgaria
I was in total love with a NU1 in a store some time ago and noticed this problem happening to me in the store just playing it for 15 minutes but didn't pay attention then. It was noisy at the time and I thought it was my technique. And I almost hit the "purchase" button on a Thomann order with it but a last minute wisdom told me to dig a little about the piano and it turned out many people actually complain about this problem, it's not curable and is considered "normal" by Yamaha. Such a pity frown

Last edited by CyberGene; 11/27/17 05:41 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: CyberGene] #2692396
11/27/17 05:46 PM
11/27/17 05:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 33
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Egorbopol Offline OP
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I was in total love with a NU1 in a store some time ago and noticed this problem happening to me in the store just playing it for 15 minutes but didn't pay attention then. It was noisy at the time and I thought it was my technique. And I almost hit the "purchase" button on a Thomann order with it but a last minute wisdom told me to dig a little about the piano and it turned out many people actually complain about this problem, it's not curable and is considered "normal" by Yamaha. Such a pity frown


I wish I did a bit more digging like you did CyberGene.

Now I'm in a bind and not sure how to proceed.

1. Deal with it....
2. Sell it used private party
3. Use the trade in value to "upgrade" to an n1? Is an n1 even an upgrade at this point?

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692398
11/27/17 05:50 PM
11/27/17 05:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,638
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
3000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,638
Sofia, Bulgaria
Where do you live? I believe in EU there's some customer protection and you can threaten the store to sue them. Although retail stores are not obliged to offer returns (it's assumed you tested the instrument), there's a hidden and known bug and you, like many others, have been misled about it.

P.S. If anything, the store themselves can forward this problem to Yamaha to accept their cr*p back or start informing people more openly about that!

Last edited by CyberGene; 11/27/17 05:55 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: CyberGene] #2692400
11/27/17 05:53 PM
11/27/17 05:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 33
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Egorbopol Offline OP
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Egorbopol  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2017
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Where do you live? I believe in EU there's some customer protection and you can threaten the store to sue them. Although retail stores are not obliged to offer returns (it's assumed you tested the instrument), there's a hidden and known bug and you, like many others, have been misled about it.


I live in The US, in California. I wasn't aware of this bug, and played the piano for a good 10-15 minutes happily in the store. I actually think I remember the note sounding loud once while playing, but its noisey in the store, and I assumed I pressed harder than I meant to. I blamed it on human error. It wasn't until it happened many times at home, that I started digging on the internet to find I wasn't the only one.

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692402
11/27/17 06:00 PM
11/27/17 06:00 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 671
K
karvala Offline
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If you make enough of a fuss, and in particular, make that fuss public enough (twitter, facebook, threaten them with a news story, negative reviews by all your friends, a frivolous lawsuit etc.), it won't be long before Yamaha decide you're more hassle than it's worth and give you a full refund.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692423
11/27/17 06:44 PM
11/27/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,438
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
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Dave Horne  Offline
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Vught, The Netherlands
I experienced that issue on an NU1.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692428
11/27/17 06:59 PM
11/27/17 06:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,165
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Gombessa Offline
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I've played an NU1 frequently, and have experienced something similar, but not quite identical to this very common issue. Once in a while (once every 30-60min), I'll hit a key softly, and it will depress very quickly/lightly with very little feel from the action, and because of that the volume/tone from that key will be quite high. Is that the same thing you're seeing? It always happens when I'm repeating a note as opposed to playing it new.

The main difference is that I feel a difference in the touchweight of the action when that happens. But that seems different from the canonical report of occasional loud keys from the NU1.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692430
11/27/17 07:06 PM
11/27/17 07:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,638
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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CyberGene  Online Content
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Sofia, Bulgaria
What is beyond me is how Yamaha knew about this “normal” issue for quite a while with NU1 and then upgraded to NU1X but didn’t even bother to fix it...


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: CyberGene] #2692437
11/27/17 07:20 PM
11/27/17 07:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,165
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Gombessa Offline
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Gombessa  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,165
Originally Posted by CyberGene
What is beyond me is how Yamaha knew about this “normal” issue for quite a while with NU1 and then upgraded to NU1X but didn’t even bother to fix it...


The assumption being that it's easy to determine the cause and implement the fix....I dunno smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692444
11/27/17 07:48 PM
11/27/17 07:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,645
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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Northern England.
The piano is obviously not fit for purpose. It is legally required in the UK at least, to be such; a solicitor's letter should do the job.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2692454
11/27/17 08:38 PM
11/27/17 08:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,905
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Richmond, BC, Canada
From the NU1X User Manual -- "Troubleshooting":

Quote
Problem: When playing the same key repeatedly and quickly or playing a trill continuously for a long time, a sound louder than expected (considering your playing strength) might very occasionally occur.

Cause: This might be caused by the mechanical structure of the keys and the action; this is
normal, but only very seldom occurs.


So:
. . . (a) the problem has been carried over from the NU1 (I checked that manual, too, a while ago);

. . . (b) it is considered "normal" !

Shame on the Yamaha engineers!


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Charles Cohen] #2692457
11/27/17 08:57 PM
11/27/17 08:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 961
Portland, OR, USA
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Osho Offline
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Osho  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 961
Portland, OR, USA
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
From the NU1X User Manual -- "Troubleshooting":

Quote
Problem: When playing the same key repeatedly and quickly or playing a trill continuously for a long time, a sound louder than expected (considering your playing strength) might very occasionally occur.

Cause: This might be caused by the mechanical structure of the keys and the action; this is
normal, but only very seldom occurs.


So:
. . . (a) the problem has been carried over from the NU1 (I checked that manual, too, a while ago);

. . . (b) it is considered "normal" !

Shame on the Yamaha engineers!




Shame on the Yamaha engineers, indeed. We need more competition for Avantgrand series.

Osho

Last edited by Osho; 11/27/17 08:58 PM.

Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Gombessa] #2692521
11/28/17 03:43 AM
11/28/17 03:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 545
Germany
MRC Offline
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MRC  Offline
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Germany
Originally Posted by Gombessa
I've played an NU1 frequently, and have experienced something similar, but not quite identical to this very common issue. Once in a while (once every 30-60min), I'll hit a key softly, and it will depress very quickly/lightly with very little feel from the action, and because of that the volume/tone from that key will be quite high. Is that the same thing you're seeing? It always happens when I'm repeating a note as opposed to playing it new.

That's exactly the problem. When repeating a note, sometimes the hammer hasn't returned to its rest position so the key offers less resistance than usual. The key therefore moves faster for a given force of touch. The sensor measures the speed of the key, not of the hammer, resulting in a sound much louder than it should be.


Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013)
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