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#2692341 - 11/27/17 12:48 PM Kawai ES8 keybed issue  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Picotin Online content
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Picotin  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2017
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Pays de la Loire, France
Hi there,

This is my first post and since this forum helped me a lot while researching for which piano to buy, I would like to share with you my experience.

After evaluating different digital pianos, (thanks all for the valuable information I've found here) a couple of months ago I've eventually settled for the Kawai ES8 and I'm overall very pleased with the choice.

Unfortunately I couldn't try it out in advance since there are no Kawai retailers in the region where I live in France and although I managed to try the CA97 while I happen to be in Ireland, the ES8 was not available there at that time.

Despite I'm a very beginner, I would probably have preferred the Grand Feel key action but the MP11 is way too heavy for my needs and the lack of speakers turned me down. After all the MP11 is a stage piano, I appreciate that.

I've to say I'm quite pleased with the RHIII action of the ES8. Maybe it is just a bit too noisy than what I'd have expected, but with reasonably "heavy" keys and quickly coming back when released.

Regretfully, since this week few keys became faulty. Incidentally F3,F4 and F5 sometimes are mute.
The issues first appeared when pressing the key in rapid succession, but today F4 just turned silent even when just pressed once. I guess it might be an issue with the mechanic since it happens regardless the instrument selected.

I'm experiencing also another annoying behavior with the sounds of C4. Rather than turning mute as the other three F keys, C4 occasionally sounds very odd. As if I would have stroke it with a sledge hammer rather than the usual touch of the finger!
I'm not just referring to the note intensity, rather it randomly sounds unusually loud and completely out of tune to my hears.

I'm quite confident this is not because of my little playing experience, rather I suppose it might be due to one faulty sensor. Unfortunately I couldn't yet identify the exact circumstances that triggers the issue and maybe It would be interesting to record the MIDI output and comparing C4 data at every instance.

I've read about few others occasionally experiencing problems with Kawai keybeds but not quite the one I encountered.
As I said, I'm quite pleased with the product, which fits well my learning curve, but I guess I just happened to be unlucky with a defective unit.

On the other, hand I'm positively impressed with the customer support of Muziker.com (the Slovakian based on line retailer where I bought the piano from)

Initially I contacted the french Kawai distributor as I thought it was the natural point of contact for technical support. Despite their quick and polite replies they informed me that sadly my unit was not covered by french warranty. (a bit odd as I am under the impression that the warranty should cover all EU countries...)

Anyway, I then contacted Muzikier.com and in a matter of 30 minutes they arranged a courier to pick up my piano at my address the day after tomorrow and confirmed me that all transports and repairing costs are covered by the warranty.

That's great service indeed. On the other hand I'm a bit concerned about the time the whole process will take. They mentioned about a week if it could be repaired at their workshop or about a month if they have to ship it back to the manufacture.

I will keep you posted of the developments if anybody might found that useful.

Sorry for the long post and happy playing to all,
F.


Kawai ES8, ISK HD9999 Phones
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#2692377 - 11/27/17 03:51 PM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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MuddyFox Offline
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Zagreb, Croatia

Nothing to be sorry about.
Being an owner of an ES8 myself I look forward to seeing how this unfolds, especially if you receive some sort of feedback as to what the problem with it actually is/was.

#2692424 - 11/27/17 05:44 PM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Picotin Online content
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Picotin  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2017
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Pays de la Loire, France
Well, I guess my keyboard i sadly just falling apart. frown
Now F4 works one out of four times...

This is getting quite frustrating but I guess I have to just look forward for a positive outcome once the piano will reach the technical support.

For the time being, I guess my evening piano session is over and I'm hitting the bed.

Goodnight and happy music to hall.
F.


Kawai ES8, ISK HD9999 Phones
#2692471 - 11/27/17 08:57 PM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 229
drewr Offline
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Pennsylvania
Advice #1, since your ES8 is new, consult your dealer for service/warranty support.

#2, the problem you describe is consistent with the problem that frequently arises with various brands wherein the rubber contacts under each key become worn and therefore intermittent/inconsistent. I experienced the same badic problem with several keys on an ES7 after many months of daily use/practice. Since this particular problem often results with DPs that have been played many hours, it is odd to hear about it happening with new DP .... maybe your new ES8 has some badly seated contacts ... ? .... Be this as it may, see #1 above and good luck.


- Kawai MP7 w/ MDR7506 phones and LSR308 monitors
- Roland HP-508
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#2692477 - 11/27/17 09:37 PM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Sep 2007
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Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Picotin, as drewr notes, this kind of issue can occur with the rubber switches used in most keyboard actions. I recommend contacting your dealer for technical assistance.

Kind regards,
James’s


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2692507 - 11/28/17 12:17 AM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Picotin Online content
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Picotin  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2017
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Pays de la Loire, France
Thanks all for the feedback.

Indeed the switches might well be the root cause.
Funny enough, this issue occurs on all the F keys on the center of the keyboard. I don't know if also the C4 defect could share the same cause.

I do play the piano for 2-3 hours on a daily basis, however this unit is only 2 months old. I guess way too early for the switches to get worn...

Anyway, tomorrow the courier will pick the piano up and hopefully I will soon find out what is going on.

Cheers,
F.


Kawai ES8, ISK HD9999 Phones
#2692539 - 11/28/17 06:09 AM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 59
Jitin Online content
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Jitin  Online Content
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America
You know I be been looking at tons of reviews and found that kawai brand tends to be the most problematic, I really wanted to get
Kawai but don't think I will frown


P155
#2692576 - 11/28/17 10:11 AM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 502
newer player Online content
500 Post Club Member
newer player  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 502
USSR
Jitin - be careful of misreading statistics. I don't think Kawai products are any more "problematic" than those of the competition. None of us have much data to support that but I don't think it matters too much.

Kawai's actions are quite popular for classical musicians so you see a high percentage of Kawai owners here. And classical musicians may be most sensitive to minor action issues. You will see on forums an unfair bias towards defective goods; "reviews" and questions tend to come from consumers with defective products whilst happy customers are busy playing thier new piano, watching their new TV, washing dishes in their new dishwasher, etc.

Finally, due to the cost of sending a tech to repair or replace a digital piano, I don't think any of the big players would be in business for long if they did not have excellent quality production.

#2692635 - 11/28/17 01:30 PM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: newer player]  
Joined: Nov 2017
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Granyala Offline
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Granyala  Offline
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Celestis
Originally Posted by newer player
Finally, due to the cost of sending a tech to repair or replace a digital piano, I don't think any of the big players would be in business for long if they did not have excellent quality production.


Especially if you factor in that they offer 5 years (or in Roland's case 10) of warranty.
It would be economical suicide to offer that kind of warranty while designing products to wear out after 2 years.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
#2692690 - 11/28/17 04:33 PM Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Jitin]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Picotin Online content
Junior Member
Picotin  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Pays de la Loire, France
Originally Posted by Jitin
You know I be been looking at tons of reviews and found that kawai brand tends to be the most problematic, I really wanted to get
Kawai but don't think I will frown


Jitin, I think I understand where are you coming from with that. I was there myself, researching and reading all possible inputs while deciding which piano to buy. Sometimes so many information look contradictory and they can be misleading if not taken in prospective.

As other contributors rightfully pointed it out, one tends to share experiences about issues rather than how happily one is enjoying its new piano. Therefore it happens that within forums, conversations develop about defects, misunderstandings and features that not always match personal expectations.

Furthermore, I am under the impression that many users here also play Kawai and probably that is the reason why conversations about this brand might appear overexposed.

As I mentioned on my initial post, I am overall very pleased with my ES8. Yes, I did experience a problem but I am convinced it was mostly bad luck getting a defective unit.

To be fairly honest with you, today I would choose Kawai again despite my incident.
As most likely all of us have done, I did too evaluate the usual other big names (Yamaha, Roland, Casio, etc..) and I eventually settled for the ES8 because it was the best match for my personal needs.

Reliability, when comparing well established brands, has never been a point of concern for me.

I hope you will enjoy good time playing whatever piano you will consider the best.

Cheers,
F.



Last edited by Picotin; 11/28/17 04:44 PM.

Kawai ES8, ISK HD9999 Phones
#2707692 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Picotin Online content
Junior Member
Picotin  Online Content
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Pays de la Loire, France
To whom it might concern,

Here is a little update on my defective ES8 experience.

The retailer picked up the piano, repaired and shipped it back at no costs and the whole process took about a month.
Great! Just that to my deep regret, it came back with the same very issue (!) which eventually became even worst.

B3 and C4 are now constantly out of tune and occasionally silents while F3, F4 and F5 sound one out of five strikes.

When I pressed the retailer to explain what the repair service actually did, it vaguely answered me that they tested and repaired some keys contacts. I start to believe the root cause is more mechanical than electric.

Anyway, after some mail exchanges (and another month passing by) it eventually agreed to take the unit back and refund me fully.

I regret the whole experience but I'm still convinced I was just unlucky to get a defective unit and probably an incompetent retail's repair service.

I'm now considering the replacement and hesitating between another Kawai ES8 or the latest MP7SE.
They are very similar DP and with the same key action. Considering that I play almost always with the headphones the MP7's lack of speakers should not be an issue.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
F.


Kawai ES8, ISK HD9999 Phones
#2707696 - 1 hour ago Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,539
dmd Offline
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dmd  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,539
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Picotin
Considering that I play almost always with the headphones the MP7's lack of speakers should not be an issue.


The "almost always" part makes me wonder how you will deal with not playing with headphones.

Personally, I would hesitate to have a keyboard with no speakers.

Also ... the speakers on the ES8 are pretty good. I would move toward the ES8 for that reason, alone.





Last edited by dmd; 1 hour ago.

Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors
#2707712 - 46 minutes ago Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 24
cocoherz Offline
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cocoherz  Offline
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Originally Posted by Picotin

Initially I contacted the french Kawai distributor as I thought it was the natural point of contact for technical support. Despite their quick and polite replies they informed me that sadly my unit was not covered by french warranty. (a bit odd as I am under the impression that the warranty should cover all EU countries...



This is strange... What will happen if you have problems in 3 years after buying? Which warranty is then responsable I can't understand this...

#2707726 - 24 minutes ago Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: cocoherz]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Picotin Online content
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Picotin  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2017
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Pays de la Loire, France
Originally Posted by cocoherz
Originally Posted by Picotin

Initially I contacted the french Kawai distributor as I thought it was the natural point of contact for technical support. Despite their quick and polite replies they informed me that sadly my unit was not covered by french warranty. (a bit odd as I am under the impression that the warranty should cover all EU countries...



This is strange... What will happen if you have problems in 3 years after buying? Which warranty is then responsable I can't understand this...


Well, after 3 years I guess the warranty would just be expired hence one could contact any assistance service.

Worthwhile to precise anyway, that the french distributor did offer to look after my unit, but it also clarified that its service would not be covered by the warranty. (i.e. I should have paid for that)

It still puzzles me how the warrant system actually works in EU. I'm under the the impression that within the Single Market there is full coverage regardless the country of purchase and/or the country where the distributor operates.

Any other EU citizen here that can shed some light on this matter?


Kawai ES8, ISK HD9999 Phones
#2707729 - 13 minutes ago Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: Picotin]  
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 24
cocoherz Offline
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cocoherz  Offline
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Posts: 24
I thought, that the warranty is 5 Years? But even before, in your case, i can't understand why Kawai didn't take the warranty ?? So when i buy a piano in Germany (i'm living in france) than i have no warranty by kawai here?? I can't believe this...

#2707733 - 6 minutes ago Re: Kawai ES8 keybed issue [Re: cocoherz]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Picotin Online content
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Picotin  Online Content
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Pays de la Loire, France
Originally Posted by cocoherz
So when i buy a piano in Germany (i'm living in france) than i have no warranty by kawai here?? I can't believe this...


And that is indeed what puzzled me too.

In my case anyway the online retailer is based in Slovakia and looked after all the shipping costs (to and from France and twice as their repair was ineffective)

Last edited by Picotin; 5 minutes ago.

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